VPPs -- what's the logic?

[Vestnik]

Hello y'all, I'm new here,

 

I'm taking up Hero again after a very lengthy absence (largely because the country I'm living in isn't very RPG-friendly). Since there aren't any viable players here I've found so far I'm more just making up characters for the heck of it, I guess, which is a lot of fun in itself. Anyway I was looking at the VPP rules in FRED.

 

I have always hated these things, but in particular I'm wondering what the logic is in the point cost for VPPs as given (base cost + control cost of 50% of base cost, modified by advantages etc.) Now a VPP, as far as I can tell, is basically a Multipower with an infinite number of slots, and so should therefore have a point cost of infinity, no? Obviously this is ridiculous, but they seem WAY too cheap. Am I missing something?

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

It "should" have a cost of infinity... except it REALLY isn't worth infinite points.

 

Because infinite points would let you do everything all at once, with no limits on dice thrown.

 

And so, like everything else in the system, it's worth less than infinite points.

 

Once we've established that, and realized that what you're really buying is 'limited Radiation Accident, but only for those points in those ways', it's arbitrary.

 

About the only real reason to be given is "It works at that cost, dammit".

 

There are several places where values had to be arbitrarily assigned. This is one of them.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

Hello y'all, I'm new here,

 

I'm taking up Hero again after a very lengthy absence (largely because the country I'm living in isn't very RPG-friendly). Since there aren't any viable players here I've found so far I'm more just making up characters for the heck of it, I guess, which is a lot of fun in itself. Anyway I was looking at the VPP rules in FRED.

 

I have always hated these things, but in particular I'm wondering what the logic is in the point cost for VPPs as given (base cost + control cost of 50% of base cost, modified by advantages etc.) Now a VPP, as far as I can tell, is basically a Multipower with an infinite number of slots, and so should therefore have a point cost of infinity, no? Obviously this is ridiculous, but they seem WAY too cheap. Am I missing something?

 

Well, the most obvious thing that can be done with a VPP and can't with a normal Multipower is the Gadget Pool that can change between or during adventures. It's what allows characters like Batman, Mr. Fantastic, Iron-Man and such to have just the right tool/gadget for whatever situation. Also, beyond 10 slots a multipower can end up costing more and doing less than an equivalent VPP. VPP's are best when tied to a particular SFX, probably more so than even Elemental Controls.

 

HM

[Zed-F]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

VPPs are appropriate for some things, and not so much for other things. It's very much a matter of them fitting in the kind of game that's being run. For really high-power games, they are almost a necessity to emulate some of the kinds of things high-powered superheroes can do in the comics.

 

Usually at the low end of the scale, a VPP can be used to simulate someone who is very versatile in a limited field, such as a stretching guy with a ton of stretching tricks, or a gadgeteer who can build all kinds of nifty toys given time. At the high end, you have cosmic power wielders who can do whatever they feel like, whenever they feel like it.

 

As far as points cost goes, it seems fairly reasonable to me. You can get a ton of flexibility out of a VPP, but unless you have a really high powered character, VPPs are not very good at giving you raw power. Consider that if you want your VPP to be a combat speed one, you're likely to be taking some expensive advantages on the control cost. Also consider that you can't reduce the cost of the reserve with limitations. So, a VPP of 60 point powers can cost anywhere between 60 and 150 points, and typically runs about 90-105. In contrast, you *can* apply limitations to a MP reserve. I find that, for a MP reserve, a limitation of -1/2 to -1 is not uncommon, and that applies to all slots as well. So you're looking for something like 45-55 points for a decent MP with a couple lims thrown on. That's about half the cost of the VPP, and spending that much on the MP will give you an appropriate option in most of the scenarios where you'd want to be using that power framework anyway. If you compare an EC vs. a VPP for raw power (i.e. how many AP of powers can you have active simultaneously) it's just as lopsided in favour of the EC.

 

At the end of the day, an infinite number of slots is not infinitely useful, since they should all follow some broad principles of SFX at the very least, and since you don't really need 18 bazillion variations on the same handful of powers to handle any given situation. Really, whether you do it via MP or VPP, there's a limit to how many slots you can define that are going to be useful in most circumstances. After that, the only thing the VPP gives you is the ability to custom-design a slot for a specific one-off circumstance. However, you can do the same thing with an MP via the power skill.

 

I can't answer you on the specifics of exactly why the VPP was costed as it was, but I definitely don't think they are worth an infinite number of points.

[Lucius]

VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

Well, there is a more logical way to do it, that Amadan pointed out not long ago in a forum, although he claimed it wasn't his exclusive invention but the fruits of an earlier long-term online discussion.

 

Use the Pool Cost as the restriction on Real Points. If you have spent X on Pool Cost, you can have up to that number of Real Points worth of powers.

 

Use the Control Cost as the restriction on Active Points. If you have spent Y on Control Cost, any single power you have can only be up to 2 * Y in Active Points. You can put advantages and limitations on the Control Cost.

 

This way, you can buy, say, a 15 pt Pool Cost. Your total powers can't go over 15 Real Points, all added together.

 

You can buy a 30 pt Control Cost, and apply whatever limitations. Any given power cannot be over 60 Active Points. But with only 15 Real Points to spend, you won't have too many at a time.

 

Or you can buy a Pool Cost of 75, and a Control Cost of 15. No power can be more powerful than 30 Active Points, but at 75 Real Points to spend, you'll have a lot of little tricks.

 

 

Hopefully, such a reform will be incorporated in the next edition (there's always another edition to look forward to eventually isn't there?)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And the inevitable palindromedary

[SleepyDrug]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

Some of the views of VPPs always amaze me. I've never had a game balance problem with any VPP. You just need to enfore the SFX and other limitations of the control cost.

[nexus]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

I can't speak for everyone but my main problem with vpps is that, if they are effectively unlimited, they are very hard to plan for in the course of a sceneario and can allow the player to side things with more ease than your might think, particuarly if they are creative. If that's a problem or not kind of depends on your gaming style.

 

That being said, for some powers a VPP is the only way to reasonably make them work.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

In my experience the level of distaste for VPPs found in some players is usually in inverse proportion to the breadth of their usage of the system across genres and powerlevels.

 

VPP's are a powerful and flexible element of the game and are an essential tool for the building of certain types of characters. However, as is unsuprising for a complicated / advanced concept it is not equally safe for everyone.

 

 

As far as the cost is concerned, its a very logical cost arrangement. If you boil character points down to their pure essense, and think of a point as a generic unit of power, and then apply Variable SFX (+1/4) and the idea of being able to change Powers around as a generic Variable Power Advantage as (+1/4), you have a +1/2 advantage. So each point costs 1 + .5 from Advantages. Im not saying that was where the game designers were at when they made the framework, but the pattern is there to be found.

 

But hey, its a toolbox system. If you dont like a tool in the box then dont use it.

[BNakagawa]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

The fundamental problem with VPPs is that there are some players that shouldn't be allowed to use them.

 

Some are too power-gamy and abuse the flexibility at every opportunity.

 

Some are too new to the system and take too long to come up with their new power sets.

 

Some are too selfish and use a VPP to step on everyone else's toes.

[Vestnik]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

Thanks for the responses guys.

 

My reasoning was going something like the following (I don't have the book with me, so if I screw up the exact advantage modifiers, bear with me... the general point will still hold.

 

Allow me to prevent you with ... Exxon Valdez Man, Despoiler of the Waters! SFX are water and toxic waste. (sorry, this just popped into mind.) He can do a bunch of stuff involving his SFX.

 

Now, we can build him with an MP:

 

60

[Vestnik]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

Whoops, er, hit the "post" button there by accident. I had gotten as har as writing:

 

Thanks for the responses guys.

 

My reasoning was going something like the following (I don't have the book with me, so if I screw up the exact advantage modifiers, bear with me... the general point will still hold.

 

Allow me to prevent you with ... Exxon Valdez Man, Despoiler of the Waters! SFX are water and toxic waste. (sorry, this just popped into mind.) He can do a bunch of stuff involving his SFX.

 

Now, we can build him with an MP:

---

And I continue:

 

Now, we can build him with an MP:

 

60 Multipower -- Master of Sludge

12m Sludge Blast: 12d6 EB

12m Field o'Sludge: 30 PD 30 ED Force Field

12m Friend of All Things Putrid: Summon 300-pt. Sludge Monster

12m Swims Like an Oil Tanker: +60" Swimming

12m Toxo-Bomb: 8d6 EB Explosion

120 = Total Cost

 

Or, alternatively, we build him as having a VPP, 60 points Active Cost, 30 points Control Cost, doesn't require a skill roll (+1/2), no extra time to change powers (+1/2). Total Cost for VP: 120 points.

 

So, for the same cost as the Multipower, Exxon Valdez Man can have all of the slots in the Multipower, plus he can have Teleport (only into and from areas of toxic waste), Extra-Dimensional T-Port (to the Dimension of Toxic Filth), 30" Flight (riding upon a pillar of sludge), 12d6 Flash (hunk of sludge thrown in eyes) and so on and so forth. In fact he has every power in the book at 60 AP worth, as long as it can be tailored so as to follow his SFX, for the same cost as buying a mere five MP slots. This is not right.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

Hello y'all, I'm new here,

 

I'm taking up Hero again after a very lengthy absence (largely because the country I'm living in isn't very RPG-friendly). Since there aren't any viable players here I've found so far I'm more just making up characters for the heck of it, I guess, which is a lot of fun in itself. Anyway I was looking at the VPP rules in FRED.

 

I have always hated these things, but in particular I'm wondering what the logic is in the point cost for VPPs as given (base cost + control cost of 50% of base cost, modified by advantages etc.) Now a VPP, as far as I can tell, is basically a Multipower with an infinite number of slots, and so should therefore have a point cost of infinity, no? Obviously this is ridiculous, but they seem WAY too cheap. Am I missing something?

I'll try and demonstrate its usefulness and its drawbacks using my Easthaven spells for an example here.

 

A fire mage has a 30 Base Cost pool and spends 15 points on the control cost. They also have a spellbook with every fire spell found on my webpage linked above.

 

Fire Dart has 19 Active Points and 9 Real Cost.

Detect Enemies has 20 AP and 10 RC.

Fire Shield has 20 AP and 10 RC.

Triaslor's Flame Control has 9 AP and 2 RC.

Triaslor's Flame Extinguisher has 67 AP and 54 RC.

Fire Whip has 26 AP and 18 RC.

 

By studying for an hour and making a Fire Magic Skill Roll, the fire mage can change what spells he is alloting to his 30 points. Because he has a 30 point poll, he can only use spells of 30 Active Points or less. That means he can't use Triaslor's Flame Extinguisher at all as it is too complicated for him.

 

The VPP also limits how many powers you can access at once. The Real Power total of all spells cannot exceed the base of 30 points. The Fire Mage wants to be able to Detect Enemies should the situation arise so he uses 10 points of his 30 for Detect Enemies. He also wants an attack spell. As much as he would like to have both spells, Fire Whip allows him to create a weapon he can use again and again and will be more convienient in battle. He now has 28 of his 30 point pool used. With only 2 points remaining, he decides to add Triaslor's Flame Control just to fill it out.

 

So after an hour of study and a skill roll, he has the following spells available:

Detect Enemies

Triaslor's Flame Control

Fire Whip

[Vestnik]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

 

So after an hour of study and a skill roll, he has the following spells available:

Detect Enemies

Triaslor's Flame Control

Fire Whip

 

---

Thanks!

 

Yes, I see the utility for situations in which the builds of the various slots that can be taken are predetermined and limited (as in your case). In this case the VPP is basically a Multipower with the Limitation "can only use certain slots at any given time; which slots are accessible are determied ahead of time and cannot be changed until a certain condition has been met." I see it too in the case of the gadgeteer-type character who says, "oK, we're about to invade the Aerial Nest of the Flying Snow People; I'd better prepare with a jetpack and flamethrower." Those seem more-or-less balanced to me.

 

What I have an issue with is the "I can change my powers to whatever I want to on the fly" sort of arrangement. I realize that this is limited by SFX -- but in many cases this isn't much of a limitation if you're creative.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

Whoops, er, hit the "post" button there by accident. I had gotten as har as writing:

 

Thanks for the responses guys.

 

My reasoning was going something like the following (I don't have the book with me, so if I screw up the exact advantage modifiers, bear with me... the general point will still hold.

 

Allow me to prevent you with ... Exxon Valdez Man, Despoiler of the Waters! SFX are water and toxic waste. (sorry, this just popped into mind.) He can do a bunch of stuff involving his SFX.

 

Now, we can build him with an MP:

---

And I continue:

 

Now, we can build him with an MP:

 

60 Multipower -- Master of Sludge

12m Sludge Blast: 12d6 EB

12m Field o'Sludge: 30 PD 30 ED Force Field

12m Friend of All Things Putrid: Summon 300-pt. Sludge Monster

12m Swims Like an Oil Tanker: +60" Swimming

12m Toxo-Bomb: 8d6 EB Explosion

120 = Total Cost

 

Or, alternatively, we build him as having a VPP, 60 points Active Cost, 30 points Control Cost, doesn't require a skill roll (+1/2), no extra time to change powers (+1/2). Total Cost for VP: 120 points.

 

So, for the same cost as the Multipower, Exxon Valdez Man can have all of the slots in the Multipower, plus he can have Teleport (only into and from areas of toxic waste), Extra-Dimensional T-Port (to the Dimension of Toxic Filth), 30" Flight (riding upon a pillar of sludge), 12d6 Flash (hunk of sludge thrown in eyes) and so on and so forth. In fact he has every power in the book at 60 AP worth, as long as it can be tailored so as to follow his SFX, for the same cost as buying a mere five MP slots. This is not right.

 

Damn straight. Multipower is overcosted.

 

 

 

Now. Prove me wrong. Go on. I dare you.

 

You claim they are unbalanced. Surely this would be easy to prove, and surely no one would use multipowers when they could use VPPs, if this were so?

 

 

 

 

What you have constructed there is a Straw Man. You have made a Multipower that is inferior to a Variable Power Pool and thus claim that ALL Multipowers are inferior to Variable Power Pools.

 

How about:

 

60 Blast: 12d6 Energy Blast

 

90 Blast: 60 pt Cosmic Power Pool, Only to use a 12d6 Energy Blast with the Special Effect of Generic Energy (-2)

 

See. Power Pools are overcosted.

 

 

Oh... and Cosmic is a +2 total advantage, not +1... so the VPP in your example would cost 150 points.

[Vestnik]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

 

What you have constructed there is a Straw Man. You have made a Multipower that is inferior to a Variable Power Pool and thus claim that ALL Multipowers are inferior to Variable Power Pools.

 

---

Dunno. It seems to me that was a straight-up no-frills classic MP.

---

Oh... and Cosmic is a +2 total advantage, not +1... so the VPP in your example would cost 150 points.

---

 

Got me there -- thanks, don't have the book with me. But I'll just add on a couple more slots and the effect will be the same.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

---

What I have an issue with is the "I can change my powers to whatever I want to on the fly" sort of arrangement. I realize that this is limited by SFX -- but in many cases this isn't much of a limitation if you're creative.

This is also why VPP is a STOP Power.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

The biggest difference will come about with the addition of common limitations...

 

without limits they are fairly close in cost...

 

but look at it like this...

150 total RP VPP (60 pool + Cosmic Control cost of 90)

& a 150 total (pool + slots) MP

 

add +1/2 common limit to both...

VPP= 60 + (90/1.5)= 120 RP

MP= 150/1.5 = 100 RP

 

at a +1 Common Limit

VPP= 60 + (90/2)= 105 RP

MP= 150/2 = 75 RP

 

 

at a +4 Common Limit

VPP= 60 + (90/5)= 78 RP

MP= 150/5 = 30 RP

[Markdoc]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

---

 

Got me there -- thanks, don't have the book with me. But I'll just add on a couple more slots and the effect will be the same.

 

And that's the point - when you have lots and lots of slots in a multipower, it behaves more or less the same as a VPP and costs more or less the same - especially since some powers like the summon would usually be built as ultras instead of variable slots in a MP, allowing you even more slots. Sure, you get slightly more with a VPP, but there are only a limited number of ways you can usefully modify the allowable powers. You soon begin to hit diminshing returns.

 

cheers, Mark

[Diamond Spear]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

Part of the problem is that you are assuming the VPP will be bought without "Requires a Skill Roll" and with "Can Change Powers as a Zero Phase Action". The cost is reasonable to expensive if you have to make a skill roll and if it takes time to change powers.

 

Consider a 90 point pool (60+30); if I want to change from one 60 point power to another I have to make a skill roll at -6 to do so. Suddenly that cost seems more reasonable.

 

 

Another thought. If I want to increase my energy blast in a multi power by 2D6 it will cost me 11 points. One for the slot cost and ten into the multipower reserve. If I want to increase my energy blast in a VPP it will cost me 15 points. Ten points in to the pool and Five points into the control cost. Again the advantage goes to the multipower.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

Consider a 90 point pool (60+30); if I want to change from one 60 point power to another I have to make a skill roll at -6 to do so. Suddenly that cost seems more reasonable.

You betcha. My character, Dr. Anomaly, is a sorcerer/scientist (35 point Magic VPP, 75 point Gadget VPP). Neither one of them is "No Roll to Change", so when I'm creating a Gadget that has the max of 75 Active Points, that's a -7 to my roll. Now, even though Dr. Anomaly has a very high INT, and a very high Gadgeteering roll (based on INT) of 17-, that penalty takes me down to 10- ...which is a bit less than 50% chance of success.

 

There's a reason I usually make all my stuff up in advance, when I can take a longer time, have better tools available, and so on...that kind of prep reduces the penalties somewhat, and if I screw up I generally have the time to try again. On the other hand, this means that while I have a list of ready-created items at hand, what I can choose at a moment's notice to answer an emergancy call is limited to things on that list...and once I've used an item up (expended its Fuel Charge, whatever), then that item is off the list and not available for use until I have time to create a new one...and if I don't have some down time between emergancies, I can find myself running out of options real quick.

 

In the case of most VPPs (the non-Cosmic kind) it's rather like a tool used to do research to create new available spells or equipment...but for a quick 'suit up' before action, you're usually limited to stuff you've already written up (take the time to research, build, and so on). It is rather like a Multipower, but one in which you're not limited by the number of slots, but by the slots you've take the time to define (research/build) and the total points available to apportion amonst those 'slots'.

 

That's why there's a Control Cost...you're paying for the option of swapping out 'slots' in a Multipower, more or less ("choose any 5 'slots' from this list of 12").

 

Sorta like Microsoft's Plug 'n Play set-up, except that it actually works and really is customizable.

[Zed-F]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

Now, we can build him with an MP:

 

60 Multipower -- Master of Sludge

12m Sludge Blast: 12d6 EB

12m Field o'Sludge: 30 PD 30 ED Force Field

12m Friend of All Things Putrid: Summon 300-pt. Sludge Monster

12m Swims Like an Oil Tanker: +60" Swimming

12m Toxo-Bomb: 8d6 EB Explosion

120 = Total Cost

 

Or, alternatively, we build him as having a VPP, 60 points Active Cost, 30 points Control Cost, doesn't require a skill roll (+1/2), no extra time to change powers (+1/2). Total Cost for VP: 120 points.

 

WhammeWhamme is right. That's a straw man. Firstly, the VPP is 150, not 120, and secondly, that's a horribly designed MP. All multi slots? No lims at all? That's not what you use MPs for. If you are going to take all multis and no lims, you might as well take a VPP, but that's because you're not playing to the strengths of an MP at all!

 

Now about we compare the 150-point VPP with this MP, where Exxon Valdez Man is a Toxic Spirit Shaman out of Shadowrun (i.e. a magic user):

 

30 Multipower, 60 AP -- Master of Sludge, all slots Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), OIF Medicine Bag (-1/2)

3u Sludge Blast: 12d6 EB

3u Field o'Sludge: 30 PD 30 ED Force Field

3u Friend of All Things Putrid: Summon 300-pt. Sludge Monster

3u Swims Like an Oil Tanker: +60" Swimming

3u Toxo-Bomb: 8d6 EB Explosion

 

45 real points. That's a third of the VPP cost, and I haven't even really gotten crazy with tossing on lims. You can add an awful lot of slots to this MP at 3 point per pop and still not come close to 150 points. But why on earth would you want to? There is definitely a point of diminishing returns, as I and other have mentioned. Once you hit ~10 slots, there's really very few circumstances where you won't have an applicable tool in your MP toolkit, and a power skill will cover those one-off conditions where you need to tweak one of your powers to get it to work right.

[OddHat]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

VPPs are very useful for characters who can come up with anything the story requires, given time (in the case of a Batman style research and build it pool) or off the cuff (in the case of a Zatanna style magic pool). If a GM doesn't want such a character in the game, fair enough, but it's perfectly in genre.

 

In terms of raw power, the VPP is not that high on the list. In a DC to DC comparison, 5thEd probably favors martial artists with a HA MP over almost everything else, except maybe Summon users.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

---

 

Got me there -- thanks, don't have the book with me. But I'll just add on a couple more slots and the effect will be the same.

 

That doesn't really address the main issue:

 

Multipowers are not for having a thousand powers that are all equally powerful and unlimited. That is what a VPP is _best_ at giving you. Multipowers are good at giving you less flexibility than a VPP _at a greatly reduced cost_.

 

24 +30 Strength, Only in Sunlight

24 +30 Strength, Not in Sunlight

 

vs

 

30 +30 Strength

 

 

Wow, those limitations are too low...

 

 

...oh, wait, no they're not.

 

 

 

Your ridiculously expensive Multipower is WHY there is a VPP - because that multipower is NOT worth 150 points. 150 points could get you a nice, awesomely powerful Elemental Control, or a bunch of Multiforms, or a 30d6 Energy Blast.... your Multipower is _cost inefficient_.

 

 

50 Elemental Control

50 20d6 Energy Blast

50 25/25 Force Field, 0 Endurance Cost, Persistent

 

 

Will wipe the floor with a character identical except having a 150 point multipower instead.

[actingkeith]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

Well, there is a more logical way to do it, that Amadan pointed out not long ago in a forum, although he claimed it wasn't his exclusive invention but the fruits of an earlier long-term online discussion.

 

 

Hopefully, such a reform will be incorporated in the next edition (there's always another edition to look forward to eventually isn't there?)

 

I've been thinking about something along a similar line for a very long time myself (Like just shortly after VPPs were introduced back in the same book with the Goodman School of Cost Effectiveness (to which I stll owe character points for enrolling; anyone got the address?))... a modification to the existing VPP design rules that I think is more generally useful yet still balanced (with the given here that VPPs are in fact balanced in the minds of the game designers).

 

If I were drinking beer with the game designers and throwing around ideas for improvements to the rules here's how I'd build the VPP rules set:

 

I'd separate it into 2 pools, calling them the Active Pool and the Real Pool. These correspond to the current Pool Cost and the Control Cost respectively. Whereas the Pool Cost and the Control Cost of the current VPP rule design are linked by a 50% cost ratio, the 2 new pools are not related in any way other than that the two of them define the VPP.

 

The Active Pool would be almost exactly analogous to the Pool Cost. It would be the part of the VPP that could have modifiers. It would provide the upper limit of the Active Points of any power in the VPP. The only change is that the Active Pool no longer dictates how many Real Points can be used in the VPP.

 

The Real Pool would not be allowed any modifiers and would be equal to half the amount of Real Points that could be spent within the VPP. (This could be thought of as being equal to the maximum Real Points allowed in the VPP with a built in -1 Limitation).

 

What this allows is a complete separation of Real Points and Active Points within the VPP. A character can have a Large Active Pool and a Small Real Pool to describe the ability to have very few (and/or) very limited powers, a Small Active Pool and a Large Real Pool which would be the guy who has *lots* of weaker powers (gadgets/spells/what-have-you) with fewer Limitations, a Small/Small or a Large/Large... Because each Pool is independent of the other, it gives a greater ability to design specific flavors of VPP.

 

Note too, that with this rules design, you can even exactly recreate a Classic, 5th Edition (or any other edition except 1st) VPP merely by setting the Real Pool at half the value of the Active Pool. Thus, it does everything that the current rules set does and a whole lot more while still preserving game balance.

 

As to why/how the game designers came up with the existing structure of the VPP rules and called it balanced... I don't know, but as a proponent of VPPs in a game, I can tell you that I've never seen a VPP unbalance a game, ever... and we've tried.

 

As with most things in life, a competent GM goes a long way toward making a balanced game.

 

Peace,

 

Keith

[Mentor]

Re: VPPs -- what's the logic?

 

My view of the logic of a VPP is to simulate the Green Lantern effect. Within the confines of a special effect, the character is able to do things on the spur of the moment.

 

If a giant carnivirous Space Bug is attacking, the Green Flyswatter is manifested. The horde of one foot tall Alien Abos get dealt with by the giant Green Bowling Ball. The actual damage of these are naturally defined by the advantages necessary to replicate the particular SFX of the individual attack.

 

Ultimately, allowing a PC with a VPP requires some ability to think on their feet by the GM and the player running the character involved, but it can be a lot of fun.