College Professor Skill Level

[Shike019]

I was wondering what the consensus is for the KS level and PS: instructor/teacher levels a college/university Professor would/should have?

[Enforcer84]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

12-

[John Desmarais]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

I was wondering what the consensus is for the KS level and PS: instructor/teacher levels a college/university Professor would/should have?

11 or less, or base INT roll. Your choice.

 

Reasoning: I personally believe that people have a tendancy to grossly overinflate non-combat skill rolls, mostly due (I think) to the fact that they tend to forget that out of combat you can get lots of "extra time" and situational bonus. For almost any skill used out of combat time there is virtually no reason that it should be modified up to a 17 or less every single time. You mileage may vary.

[Trebuchet]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

I agree with Enforcer: 12- is more than enough for a typical college professor. Obviously there will be exceptions. People with 17- are more likely to be working in the private sector where they can make money proportionate with their talents.

[Pogo]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

People with 17- are more likely to be working in the private sector where they can make money proportionate with their talents.

 

I think this really depends on the field. In physics, I expect more 17-'s in academia than industry, based on observation. In the basic sciences it's usually easier to do research at a university (Bell labs and PARC notwithstanding). If you enjoy a field enough to get that high a skill, then getting paid to play counts for something.

 

I also think 13- is reasonable at a good research school, but that's easily debatable.

[OddHat]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

I do a lot of interpreting and language training jobs for Universities, engineering firms and pharmaceutical companies. Odd mix, but that's life.

 

IME, a fair amount of cutting edge pure research comes out of Universities, things that depend on a mix of public and private funding. Similarly, top people in many fields enter academia post retirement, when they want to do pure research, or when they're between more lucrative jobs.

 

I'd place the minimum KS or SS roll at 12 or less for a college prof at a small college or one who was not an expert in his field, with one or two related fields at 12- and Instructor at 11-. At a very good University, I'd go up to 15- or so in the core SS or KS, and at a top research institution or similar school 16-. The associated skills would be at a minimum in the 12- range, and could easily keep pace up to 15-. However, the Instructor skill might be stuck at 11- no matter how good someone is in his field; brilliant engineer are sometimes lousy teachers.

 

I have an MA and multiple certificates in my own field, but I doubt my skill is more than 12- in HERO terms. However, I have a bunch of related skills at a similar or higher level, and together they amount to a fair grasp of my job and a solid ability to teach when I have to.

[Enforcer84]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

well my reasoning was this. An NPC with 11- has a job doing that. I give professors, the guys who teach such things 12-. Though if I wanted to be snippy, I'd give them PS's at 8- as well (those who can't do, teach)

[Markdoc]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

Yeah, I'd tend to go with the flow here. 11- for your standard undergrad teacher, 12- for someone who knows their field really well, 14- for a top researcher, and 15- or better for someone with a giant brain, leader of their field, etc. 17- is moving up into Reid Richards super-duper scientist territory.

 

As for the idea that the best brains are to be found in industry, nah, not really. Scientists in industry are generally looked down on as "not being able to cut it in the real world".

 

There are some really smart guys in industry, no question, but there's also a lot of 9-5 drones and the weight in brainpower is clearly weighted towards academia, even if not as much as a couple of decades ago. It's by no means sour grapes - I work kind of on the public/private border and could go private with a higher salary any time I like (I supplement my pay by doing consultancy for industry as it is). A little while ago I got a CSO offer which would have jumped my salary nearly 50 grand a year (not counting the included options or housing benefits). A month ago I was asked if I'd like to apply for one that would jump my salary nearly 100 grand (no bennies, though). I said no to both, (though to be honest, I came veeerry close to saying yes to the first one - like most people, I appreciate money, after all) because both would involve giving up the cutting edge in my field. That's not atypical. I know other top people who have made the same decision: money's no good if you hate your life, and where you spend your work hours are a big part of your life.

 

cheers, Mark

[megaplayboy]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

My general take:

Associate degree: 8-

Bachelor's degree: 11-(or 8-, depending on field--if a BA is sufficient to get you work in the field, 11- is appropriate)

Master's: 12-/11-

Ph.D: 13-/12-

Tenured professorship: 14-/13-

Distinguished professorship: 15-/14-(i.e., they've gotten an award, or won a special distinction)

Published author, distinguished professor, a top authority in the field: 16-/15-

all of the above, plus Nobel Laureate or author/discoverer of the Next Big Thing in the field: 17-/16-

A "name" legend(Einstein, Edison, Dostoyevsky, etc.): 18-/17-

BTEWTE(Best to ever walk the earth): 19-/18-(Hendrix, Da Vinci, etc.)

 

This is based on the premise that 11- is good enough to get a job, and 20- represents a superhuman level of talent unavailable to people in a "real world" setting.

[Chuckg]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

I agree that people with 17- or 18- in a Science skill should at least be getting Nobel Prize nominations, even if your campaign equivalent of Reed Richards is consistently hogging the top spot every year with his 22- or more.

 

(Tangent -- speaking of Reed Richards, you wonder what the Nobel committee does in the MU. Do they just mail him the prize every year without even holding a ceremony, or did they give him a Lifetime Achievement Nobel Prize and then put an asterisk next to the name of everybody else who won one in the record books? ("Reed Richards voluntarily withdrew from competition this year."))

[Cancer]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

I agree with Enforcer: 12- is more than enough for a typical college professor. Obviously there will be exceptions. People with 17- are more likely to be working in the private sector where they can make money proportionate with their talents.

 

 

[wordless, helpless, flailing-feet-in-the-air, tear-shedding, muscle-pull-in-the-gut laughter]

 

Oh dear, I haven't seen anything that silly in weeks.

 

Skill level is orthogonal to being in academia vs. the private sector; it's more to do with personal preference and attitude. If you can't stand grading papers, whacking whiny spoiled undergrads, or chasing grants, then academia isn't for you. On the other hand, if you really are interested in knowledge for its own sake, you'll never find a private-sector employer who wants you on their payroll, at least in the US. Maybe on a consulting retainer for a few months, but never as an employee.

 

Only in a rather limited number of disciplines will a private-sector employer be interested in a level and breadth of knowledge that one has to have to be a successful academic. Some segments of engineering; some pharmaceuticals; a bit of chemistry. Otherwise, the private sector wants someone with a PhD much less than they want an incompetent, alcoholic, abusive manager who's stealing from the company.

[megaplayboy]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

I agree that people with 17- or 18- in a Science skill should at least be getting Nobel Prize nominations, even if your campaign equivalent of Reed Richards is consistently hogging the top spot every year with his 22- or more.

 

(Tangent -- speaking of Reed Richards, you wonder what the Nobel committee does in the MU. Do they just mail him the prize every year without even holding a ceremony, or did they give him a Lifetime Achievement Nobel Prize and then put an asterisk next to the name of everybody else who won one in the record books? ("Reed Richards voluntarily withdrew from competition this year."))

well, as a general practice, I don't think anyone's gotten a Nobel twice in the same field. I think there are maybe 2 or 3 individuals who have gotten Nobels in two different fields, usually a branch of the sciences and peace(Linus Pauling, I think, has this distinction).

So, perhaps Richards got one in Physics and a second one in Biology or Chemistry...

"Alas, Dr. von Doom regrets he cannot accept the award for his work in the field of time travel personally, as he is busy opp--er--ruling benevolently over his grateful subjects."

[Cancer]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

Back on topic....

 

PS: Teacher ... bluntly, maybe a third of the people with professor jobs are 8- at this. Approximately all the rest are 11-. A literal handful, on the order of a percent, will be 12- or better.

 

KS's ... A lot of this depends on how you do the mechanic for KS's. I am assuming a "harsh" mechanic, where people without a relevant KS are not even allowed a roll (though there is "spillover" with penalties for KS's in related fields). In such a case, Megaplayboy's scale isn't bad.

[Cancer]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

Marie Curie shared the Physics Nobel in 1903, and won the Chemistry Nobel in 1911 outright.

[megaplayboy]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

Well, postulating and discovering the Negative Zone would get him one for Physics, and creating "unstable molecules" with practical uses would get him another for Chemistry. And that's just off the top of my head.

[megaplayboy]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

Back on topic....

 

PS: Teacher ... bluntly, maybe a third of the people with professor jobs are 8- at this. Approximately all the rest are 11-. A literal handful, on the order of a percent, will be 12- or better.

 

KS's ... A lot of this depends on how you do the mechanic for KS's. I am assuming a "harsh" mechanic, where people without a relevant KS are not even allowed a roll (though there is "spillover" with penalties for KS's in related fields). In such a case, Megaplayboy's scale isn't bad.

My college physics and math profs were undoubtedly brilliant researchers, but sucky instructors, so I'd go along with that characterization.

[Pogo]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

well' date=' as a general practice, I don't think anyone's gotten a Nobel twice in the same field. [/quote']

 

John Bardeen is the only person to win the physics Nobel prize twice: in 1956 for the transistor (with Walter Brattain and William Shockley) and in 1972 for type I superconductivity (with Leon Cooper and John Schrieffer).

[Boll Weevil]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

My vote goes to WIDE variation. I had chemistry professors in college who were "teachers", meaning they relied heavily on the syllabus and textbook. They could have easily left that class and taught an English class next hour. I also had professors who were "chemists". Their knowledge of the material far exceeded their teaching ability. I did have a couple of those rare professors who bought both KS:Teaching and KS:Chemistry with complementary PS skills.

[BarryB]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

As a college professor, I think that a college professor would have a single specialized discipline that would be known well (15- or 16-). When I say specialized, I mean *specialized*: the poetry of Elizabeth Barrett Browning or the interactions of pi-mesons.

 

The broader category, Physics, English Literature, Geography, would be known at a higher level than the ordinary populace. I would suggest 11- or an INT roll. Remember that most heroic characters get an Everyman skill of AK: Local Area at 8-, so I would expect concentrated study to yield an AK of the next level up: 11- or INT roll.

 

Outside of that broader category, college professors are just as dumb as anyone else.

[MCMaenza]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

I'd generally go with an 11- or 12- for most professors with their general category skills, and then maybe a 14- or 15- in a specialized area. I think this kind of stuff really only matters for the PC's and NPC's though. Beyond that, if it is just some cameo character that shows up once in a blue moon - I don't even do the rolls. I just have that professor know what I need him to know in order to move the plot along (if that's his purpose in the narrative).

[Trebuchet]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

 

[wordless, helpless, flailing-feet-in-the-air, tear-shedding, muscle-pull-in-the-gut laughter]

 

Oh dear, I haven't seen anything that silly in weeks.

 

Skill level is orthogonal to being in academia vs. the private sector; it's more to do with personal preference and attitude. If you can't stand grading papers, whacking whiny spoiled undergrads, or chasing grants, then academia isn't for you. On the other hand, if you really are interested in knowledge for its own sake, you'll never find a private-sector employer who wants you on their payroll, at least in the US. Maybe on a consulting retainer for a few months, but never as an employee.

 

Only in a rather limited number of disciplines will a private-sector employer be interested in a level and breadth of knowledge that one has to have to be a successful academic. Some segments of engineering; some pharmaceuticals; a bit of chemistry. Otherwise, the private sector wants someone with a PhD much less than they want an incompetent, alcoholic, abusive manager who's stealing from the company.

It's nice to be easily amused.

 

Your statements assume two things: That we're only talking hard sciences here; and that real 17- types are as common in the real world as they are in comics. We're not; and they're not.

 

While academic hard sciences such as physics certainly suck a disproportionate number of high level Ph.D.'s (and that's probably as much due to the fact that high-level physics or astronomical equipment is incredibly expensive and hence generally built only with government assistance) into academia, there are other disciplines which have appeal to (and hire) smart people. Brokerage firms want smart people who aren't intimidated by formulas, so they hire mathematicians. My grandfather, a metallurgical chemist who worked on the Manhattan Project and wrote a standard textbook on the subject, worked for a large chemical company most of his life. Doctorates in geology work for petroleum companies. People with computer science or engineering doctorates end up at Microsoft, Intel, or founding new companies in the computing field. (My dad, a former packaging engineer at 3M, told me of janitors at 3M with doctorates because being an employee doing anything gave them an eventual edge in hiring in their doctoral field because of 3M's "inside hire/promote first" policies.)

 

Smart people go where the money is. In many fields that's academia; but for most of the world's doctorates that's the private sector. There aren't enough academic jobs out there for everyone with smarts.

[Cancer]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

It's nice to be easily amused.

 

Your statements assume two things: That we're only talking hard sciences here; and that real 17- types are as common in the real world as they are in comics. We're not; and they're not.

 

While academic hard sciences such as physics certainly suck a disproportionate number of high level Ph.D.'s (and that's probably as much due to the fact that high-level physics or astronomical equipment is incredibly expensive and hence generally built only with government assistance) into academia, there are other disciplines which have appeal to (and hire) smart people. Brokerage firms want smart people who aren't intimidated by formulas, so they hire mathematicians. My grandfather, a metallurgical chemist who worked on the Manhattan Project and wrote a standard textbook on the subject, worked for a large chemical company most of his life. Doctorates in geology work for petroleum companies. People with computer science or engineering doctorates end up at Microsoft, Intel, or founding new companies in the computing field. (My dad, a former packaging engineer at 3M, told me of janitors at 3M with doctorates because being an employee doing anything gave them an eventual edge in hiring in their doctoral field because of 3M's "inside hire/promote first" policies.)

 

I agree with pretty much everything you say here, actually, though theory types don't take that big a lab budget. (In astronomy & physics, theoreticians are more likely to see full-time academic openings in their fields because they're cheaper to keep.) I think I'd draw different lines than you between KS's and PS's, but that's a quibble. Yes, there are some very capable, highly trained, very knowledgeable people in the private sector. Some of them even are using the main thrust of their postgraduate education.

 

Certainly if I wanted to know about finding oil, I'd look for someone working for Shell or Exxon, and not someone at a university. But I wanted someone who could relate intrusions of deep-mantle rocks into some (unproductive) region's rock strata, or some other aspect of solid-Earth geophysics, I'll head for a museum or a university.

 

My experience is that the private sector really isn't interested in the kind of people who get PhD's. That means having a PhD means you're just not very employable ... except for those few jobs which require a PhD in your field. In general, the private sector does not want to pay for things they don't understand, whether they can make use of it or not. I know people who omit their PhD from their resume. I can't do that, because too much of my employment history is in positions where one was required; otherwise I'd've tried it. Most of the advice for PhD job-hunters can be subtitled "how to con them into hiring you anyway". (I got a lot of "WTF????" looks from people when I was job-hunting, and one interviewer was flat-out scared of me.) Getting a PhD is NOT a smart thing to do, if you judge it purely by economics; unless you have the uncanny ability to know what's going to be in hot demand five years after you start grad school, you're better off getting a full-time job and building up employment history than racking up school debt.

 

I also was thinking further out than just the hard science/engineering fields, too, things that would show up in, like, pulp campaigns. So, fields like literature. Egyptologists. History. Paleoontology. It used to be that anthropology and archaeology were unemployable fields too, but in the last few years, at least up here, what with the requirements to look for (and document if found) any Native American relics that construction steps on, there's a positive demand for short-term archaeology people. Amazing what regulation will do (and no, I'm not at all suggesting that's positive) .

 

Smart people go where the money is. In many fields that's academia; but for most of the world's doctorates that's the private sector. There aren't enough academic jobs out there for everyone with smarts.

 

Here's the core of our disagreement, your first sentence in that paragraph. Lots of smart people do dumb things ... for love, and that love can be a field of knowledge. Maybe that makes them stupid in your eyes. If so, I'd guess that most PhD people are stupid by that definition.

 

OTOH, your last sentence rates a high-five "amen".

[Lamrok]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

I agree with Enforcer: 12- is more than enough for a typical college professor. Obviously there will be exceptions. People with 17- are more likely to be working in the private sector where they can make money proportionate with their talents.

 

What part of the private sector gives proportionatly high pay to experts on Elizabethan drama?

 

Network Executive: "Dammit, CBS is beating us five ways to Sunday with their new sitcoms! We need some more Elizabethan drama experts; some people with really well developed literary critical skills, and a keen sense of classical irony. That should put the zest back in "Everybody Loves Millionaires."

 

Ad Executive: "If only we could deconstruct Acme's new print ad, I think we'd really have a good idea about how to blunt their new campaign. Who do you know with the skilz to do a complete textual analysis?"

 

Politician: "I'm sick and tired of people laughing at my speeches and saying I'm stupid stupid. It isn't me, it's those idiot speech writers. Let's get some top gun smart guys in here turn this thing around."

[Lamrok]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

I agree that people with 17- or 18- in a Science skill should at least be getting Nobel Prize nominations' date=' even if your campaign equivalent of Reed Richards is consistently hogging the top spot every year with his 22- or more.[/quote']

 

Another way of judging the appropriate level of skill to assign a particular professor in a heroic fiction game is to consider the relative likelihood that he can make his roll with a -10 modifier to do something truely spectacular.

[Lucius]

Re: College Professor Skill Level

 

I agree with those who say a professor is likely to have <= 11 or 12 with a BROAD area (physics) and a few points higher in some specialization (interactions of pi-muons or whatever he said.) Also, that a professor is likely to have several other related skills.

 

In my experience, however, SOME professors only have <= 8 even in the subject they're supposedly teaching. Well, okay, only one, but he made a lasting impression ironically enough....most of the ones I had did know their stuff, and many also knew how to teach.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

What's my skill roll at Palindromedary Riding?