Old Man Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... Penetrating is a meaningless advantage for a 1 Pip RKA. Make it AVLD: Flash Def. I thought Penetrating on a 1 pip ensured that that one pip got through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... I thought Penetrating on a 1 pip ensured that that one pip got through. That's the offical ruling. It's not exactly well-accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... That's the offical ruling. It's not exactly well-accepted. Steve was drunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... The Sword of "Stabbyness" 3d6AP HKA (4d6 AP with 15 Str) Might need to get lucky for BOD but will routinely do STUN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... Do we really need to list all of the nigh infinite ways to hurt someone with 30/30 defense? It is easily doable via a huge range of Powers, Advantages, tactics, and situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... I like the bludgeoning house rules for this kind of thing. A sufficient force to move a person's body will affect that person NO MATTER how much armour they have. Hitting a scifi character in power armour with a truck going 100km/hr will still kill them - the armour protects them from the truck, but there is nothing between them and their armour - their armour impacts with their flesh at 100km/hr and they are mushed in their suits. You end up with a human-shaped shelled jelly. The house rules I saw somewhere dealt with this abstractly - every x amount of damage will automatically penetrate for 1 point. This applies to all attacks. As I use hit locations, I would also allow very high levels or OCV for hitting certain locations, be equivalent to find weakness, or even deadly blow. To represent penetrating joints in armour. For magic - the field would not be uniform and may have points that are particularly weak (I abhor 'perfection' in games, it makes it less realistic). There's also the shape of the mage armour - if spherical, the character could be rolled off a cliff. But as above fire, poison, etc... I also have magical weather - sufficiently large spells drain the available mana in the area. Not only that, Elves practice metamagic and can actively reroute ley lines so mana ceases to be supplied to spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... If its 30/30 Def its a superheroic fantasy game, and there's no reason superheroes can't hurt one another, even with those levels of defense. Indeed, you don't need 150 pts to do it. 75-90 point attacks should do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordGhee Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... Put him in a pit and see if he can eat that armour. Put him in a desert and see if he can drink that armour. and Curufea beat me to it. . . . . Can you say defenestration. oh this is great from dictonary.com third def. defenestration n. [mythically from a traditional Czech assasination method, via SF fandom] 1. Proper karmic retribution for an incorrigible punster. "Oh, ghod, that was _awful_!" "Quick! Defenestrate him!" 2. The act of exiting a window system in order to get better response time from a full-screen program. This comes from the dictionary meaning of `defenestrate', which is to throw something out a window. 3. The act of discarding something under the assumption that it will improve matters. "I don't have any disk space left." "Well, why don't you defenestrate that 100 megs worth of old core dumps?" 4. Under a GUI, the act of dragging something out of a window (onto the screen). "Next, defenestrate the MugWump icon." 5. The act of completely removing Micro$oft Windows from a PC in favor of a better OS (typically Linux). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... Do we really need to list all of the nigh infinite ways to hurt someone with 30/30 defense? It is easily doable via a huge range of Powers, Advantages, tactics, and situations. Very true. However, reading the initial post, these ways are what was requested. Thia, to my mind, the bigger question youhave to answer is whether defenses of this level are acceptable in your game. If they aren't, then they simply aren't. The player is not permitted a spell which provides defenses of this level, and that's that. If they are, then the players need to understand two things. First, the fact that this level of defenses are acceptable means that adversaries WILL routinely have abilities which will affect someone with this level of defenses. In other words, the spell does not mean you are invulnerable. Second, the spell will not be unique to the player characters - expect to see opponents who have the same level of defenses and, perhaps, exceptional opponents who have significantly more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted December 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... Spells are tiered, 1st - 9th level to maintain something reasonable in terms of power. I know that some spells in the Grimoire are stupid powerful (384 active point shield comes to mind) and I tend to forget minor details like "Assigning an effect creates an effect" - that until you slap lims on it, 'armor' as a power can be a pure force construct. So far I've got the following ideas down. - AVLD, NND depending on the attack. - Weapons/Claws that happen to be AP - Very Powerful EBs/HKAs/RKAs Doing the math it's clear that a 5th level EB would, in fact, deal STUN damage on a 30 rPD shield. A 6th level EB with AP tacked on would be far worse. It would stop most (if not all) unenchanted swords and lower end spells, acting as both an Anti-Magic Shell and a basic personal defense. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyxclaw Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... Spells are tiered' date=' 1st - 9th level to maintain something reasonable in terms of power. I know that some spells in the Grimoire are stupid powerful (384 active point shield comes to mind) and I tend to forget minor details like "Assigning an effect creates an effect" - that until you slap lims on it, 'armor' as a power [i']can be [/i]a pure force construct. So far I've got the following ideas down. - AVLD, NND depending on the attack. - Weapons/Claws that happen to be AP - Very Powerful EBs/HKAs/RKAs Doing the math it's clear that a 5th level EB would, in fact, deal STUN damage on a 30 rPD shield. A 6th level EB with AP tacked on would be far worse. It would stop most (if not all) unenchanted swords and lower end spells, acting as both an Anti-Magic Shell and a basic personal defense. Interesting. true dat, you can always think about giving the armour the limitation that it can only defend against certain types of attacks. Anti-magic Shells might not defend against normal weapons or a fist, so you could give it the limitation "only against magic" But then again, they might. Edit:: you can always try force wall if you're worried about stun. But that can be tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... Best method? Control the level of DEF in your game, if 30DEF is going to be a problem, don't allow it. No need to go all out with fancy attacks and such - that just leads to an arms race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted December 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... I'm not worried about caps, per se, as I know this game is designed to go into "epic" scale battles of tremendous magnitude. I suppose, upon further consideration, that with a 30/30 straight armor, anything bigger & badder is going to be tearing through it of its own accord. Dragons with flaming breath & lightning weapons, demons with AP HKA claws who use sonic attacks, all sorts of things. Somehow I don't think a Sonic based attack is going to slow down much on a Force armor. That'd be up for debate, though. I'm not so much looking at what should or should not be allowed, as much as I'm trying to guage how things balance out across the scale. One of the points made earlier is that a 90 point EB/RKA is going to at least deal STUN damage on an average roll, and that's about right. I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyxclaw Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... I'm not worried about caps' date=' per se, as I know this game is designed to go into "epic" scale battles of tremendous magnitude. I suppose, upon further consideration, that with a 30/30 straight armor, anything bigger & badder is going to be tearing through it of its own accord. Dragons with flaming breath & lightning weapons, demons with AP HKA claws who use [i']sonic[/i] attacks, all sorts of things. Somehow I don't think a Sonic based attack is going to slow down much on a Force armor. That'd be up for debate, though. I'm not so much looking at what should or should not be allowed, as much as I'm trying to guage how things balance out across the scale. One of the points made earlier is that a 90 point EB/RKA is going to at least deal STUN damage on an average roll, and that's about right. I think. Also remember that HERO is in general a lot less lethal than DnD. Stun is the gold. You are always going to do more stun than body. I'd be careful trying to modle effects that are out of DnD too. Sonic attacks are the bees knees in DnD because nothing is immune to it. But in general "sonic" things deal in high speed and vibration. Something that keeps vibration out might protect against sonic, unless you want to rule that the force armour just can't deal with the particular vibration. All of that is your choice of course and more power to you. But you could always come up with a new SFX with the result you want if you have trouble making things just like in d20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted December 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... This is a common confusion as to what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm not trying to play d20, d20 is simply the foundation from which I'm working because that's what I'm familiar with. I'm playing HERO and the nature of the post was in understanding how HERO works and what it'll do at higher levels, which is of course of paramount concern. A sonic based attack is in no way out of the question, considering that within HERO the framework for "energy" based attacks (fire, cold, sound) are all accounted for. A Sonic attack with NND (Flash Defense: Sound) would make plenty of sense. I'm just trying to expand my knowledge of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... Very true. However, reading the initial post, these ways are what was requested. Im reminded of Bubba relating all the various things you can do with Shrimp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyxclaw Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... This is a common confusion as to what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm not trying to play d20, d20 is simply the foundation from which I'm working because that's what I'm familiar with. I'm playing HERO and the nature of the post was in understanding how HERO works and what it'll do at higher levels, which is of course of paramount concern. A sonic based attack is in no way out of the question, considering that within HERO the framework for "energy" based attacks (fire, cold, sound) are all accounted for. A Sonic attack with NND (Flash Defense: Sound) would make plenty of sense. I'm just trying to expand my knowledge of the system. well, I wasn't saying you were trying to play DnD in hero, just that a lot of the names sound familiar from there. Granted I haven't read the grimoire or fantasy hero genre books so I don't know if they are in them. It was more that it's important to think about what you want rather than how it was modeled somewhere else. that's not a bad build for sonic. But I think it might be good to think about AVLD flash defense sound. As NND is if you have any flash defense to sound you take no damage, even if it's one pip and AVLD is verses how much you have, so quantity is more important. Otherwise cotton in the ears (1-4 flash defense sound) would be enough to stop the attack entirely. Unless that's what you'd prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... I have a number of Sonic based Spells here: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Content/Powers/Spells/Spells.asp?Provider=Killer%20Shrike Just CTRL+F for a find dialog, type in "SONIC" and Find Next to your hearts content: This entire Magic System is music based; all of its powers could be easily translated into Spells by switching up the modifiers: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/MagicSystems/troubadours.shtml This Magic System is interaction based, and many of its effects use the "Voice Range" variant of Incantations making them, in effect, Sonic: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/MagicSystems/sortilege.shtml On a related tangent, "Bards" use a lot of Sonic effects; I provide a slew of possible ways to do Bards here: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Content/PackageDeals/bardPackages.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nytflyr Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... what is terminal velocity in Hero system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted December 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... Ooo... thank you for clarifying the AVLD/NND difference, I hadn't had a chance to go back and double-check the difference and I'm sitting here thinking "Dude... what is the difference, anyway?" Muchos gracias! And apologies for sounding snippy, but to explain a bit more eloquently, the game began 3 years ago as a d20 game, and I've been playing d20 (as AD&D) since time immemorial, and I'm totally new to HERO. There's a lot of confusion because I'm 'converting' from d20 to HERO, not a carbon copy, but literally recoding the whole mess to make it work properly. That means rebuilding attack forms, spell systems, understanding combat (which flows very easily for me... I'm missing a lot of the confusion regarding that one) and getting ugly with the rules, seeing what they do and don't do well, and what they'll do at higher levels. Mind you, because I'm using a Charge based magic system (thanks to Killer Shrike) having a 30/30 armor wouldn't even be a 5th level (90 AP) spell; it'd be higher if you're going to have it around for any length of time. None the less, I was thinking long and hard about it going "Hey... do these match up? Would he be immune to only normal weapons, or what?" Sonic as AVLD is very good to know. There are also other effects that the players have thought up, or will be using that I need to work on modeling accurately as well. I have one Sorceror who's primary d20 spell is called "Destiny is my Sword." The construction is very simple. It's a standard damage spell that attacks based on a Willpower save. So first it has to be BOECV, and then will be an Energy attack. It also has the option to really rock someone for a round, so it may also pick up an improved STUN multiplier if it's done as an RKA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyxclaw Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... it sounds like you're on a good track though. I know how hard it is to try and make a world or even just rewrite on in HERO, as I'm sure a lot of those around here do. I still have trouble converting the system I started a few years ago. Best of luck ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... what is terminal velocity in Hero system? 30" per Segment, or 30d6 for a long fall. Theres a whole section on falling in the main rulebook. I dont have a copy handy, but its in the 400's, in the Enviroment chapter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... Entangle the dude (a simple 60 Active Point paralysis spell should do it), and then go "So, you're DCV 0, and Hit Location penalties are halved... called shot to the eye socket, DCV 4!" Then stick a shiv through his helmet slit and into his brain, and twist. Or, if you want the guy alive, go 'So, now that you're, like, paralyzed and all, I can easily remove this OIF armor.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nytflyr Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... 30" per Segment' date=' or 30d6 for a long fall. Theres a whole section on falling in the main rulebook. I dont have a copy handy, but its in the 400's, in the Enviroment chapter.[/quote'] I really wasnt asking the question to get an answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Re: So if I have 30 rPD/30 rED armor... Or... "Find Weakness. Find Weakness. Run away and attack again later if I miss either roll. Then stab against your 7 DEF". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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