Michael Hopcroft Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 What are some good examples of spells that you do not want anywhere near your Fantasy HERO campaign? One example that comes to mind is Create Infinite Pizza. When cast, this spell brings into existence a fresh, hot and delicious pizza that extends infinitely in all possible directions and dimensions. You can guess the result: soon everything else that can possibly exist is crowded out and the only thing that can exist in all concievable and inconcievable universes is the pizza. The Infininte END cost is a nice reason not to cast the spell, but if it starts drawing energy from the surroundings as opposed to the caster then it becomes possible, albeit very nasty. (Create Pizza isn't a bad spell, though -- a hot, delicious pizza appears from nowehere when it is cast, whioch the partyy can then consume.) Another spell that would cause problems in a campaign would be Color Shift, which turns everything in the range of effect a uniform shade of the color specified by the caster (such as purple). If everything is exactly the same color, it becomes hard for everyone to distinguish one object from another -- and impossible to distinguish between two objects whose main difference is color. ("Pull the red lever! THE RED LEVER!" "Uh, they're all red." "BLEEP!") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH I'm afraid I don't have facetious nominations Resurrection - once dead, always dead. Planar Gate - or any other form of dimensional movement - I don't have alternate dimensions. Speak with the dead - see Resurrection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH Resurrection - once dead, always dead. Planar Gate - or any other form of dimensional movement - I don't have alternate dimensions. Speak with the dead - see Resurrection. It sounds like you may have a fantasy world where Spirit Magic of any sort is a no-go because there are no Spirits. One in which the "soul" as an entity (as opposed to a mental/emotional concept) does not exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH Spirits exist - but in that state, it is very difficult to sustain individuallity - you get absorbed into the mana field and ley lines that envelop the world. Souls don't exist in the traditional sense - because they aren't immortal. Once the body is dead, they disipate. The gods are the only sustained intelligences in the mana field - because they are constantly defined by their believers. I should add - I wouldn't allow "Detect [alignment]" either of course, because alignment is a game concept that does not exist in any believable setting. Real people aren't one dimensional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH Hmm, yes, but all cultures and many genres support the idea of detecting the supernatural. Even Nancy Drew will get a pricking on the nape of her neck when there's ghosts nearby. Depends how you think of "detect evil". Even those who are evil can get a funny feeling that things aren't right. Personally, this is more the idea I'm after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH It sounds like you may have a fantasy world where Spirit Magic of any sort is a no-go because there are no Spirits. One in which the "soul" as an entity (as opposed to a mental/emotional concept) does not exist. This could also be the world of someone who just wants death to be a meaningful dramatic occurence. Resurrection and Speak with Dead lessen the impact of death. Look at comics. Does anyone really believe that anyone will stay dead? It's a medium in which death is the equivalent of a penalty box. As for silly spells, well create Infinite _Anything_ is a bad idea for the reasons you gave. My nomination is Replay. This spell hurtles you backward in time a specific interval (say five minutes). The problem is that the universe is exactly as it was five minutes ago, including you. You have no knowledge of future events. Therefore in five minutes, the events which caused you to cast the spell will occur again and you will be stuck in an infinite loop. Perhaps the loop could be broken if the events which caused you to cast the spell have a sufficiently random nature, such as some kind of Heisenberg/Brownian motion thingie. But I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Keith "Scroll up to the top and begin again" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH This could also be the world of someone who just wants death to be a meaningful dramatic occurence. Resurrection and Speak with Dead lessen the impact of death. Look at comics. Does anyone really believe that anyone will stay dead? It's a medium in which death is the equivalent of a penalty box. There are some genres where the existence of Ressurcetion magic would be appropriate. But my main argument was that in Fantasy in particular, it is very arre for the dead not to have some presence or effect on the world of the living. As for silly spells, well create Infinite _Anything_ is a bad idea for the reasons you gave. I am reminded of the Dor5k Tower episode when an annoyed Igor, GMing for a pair of female players he didn't particularly like (and not conicndentally the two love interests of his best friend) presented them with a room that contained "an infinite numbner of orcs". He expected this to intimadate his players, but was mistaken -- they came up with a simple and elegant solution that was nontheless messy. My nomination is Replay. This spell hurtles you backward in time a specific interval (say five minutes). The problem is that the universe is exactly as it was five minutes ago, including you. You have no knowledge of future events. Therefore in five minutes, the events which caused you to cast the spell will occur again and you will be stuck in an infinite loop. Perhaps the loop could be broken if the events which caused you to cast the spell have a sufficiently random nature, such as some kind of Heisenberg/Brownian motion thingie. But I wouldn't bet the farm on it. That sounds like a nice little "trap spell", actually. And even if the universe does "reset", chance in itself should be enough to prevent the next five minutes from repeating precisely. And the circumstances don't have to be combat-related: you could cast the speel just after a critical moment while in the bedchamber of the High Priestess Oralicia Glamorosa of the Lust Goddess Amorita..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH I am reminded of the Dor5k Tower episode when an annoyed Igor, GMing for a pair of female players he didn't particularly like (and not conicndentally the two love interests of his best friend) presented them with a room that contained "an infinite numbner of orcs". He expected this to intimadate his players, but was mistaken -- they came up with a simple and elegant solution that was nontheless messy. Okay, I have to ask - what elegant solution is there for an infinite number of orcs? Spells I wouldn't want to model - Infinite Vision. This spell enables the recipient to see through anything and everything. Lucius Alexander Or Summon Palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH I am reminded of the Dor5k Tower episode when an annoyed Igor, GMing for a pair of female players he didn't particularly like (and not conicndentally the two love interests of his best friend) presented them with a room that contained "an infinite numbner of orcs". He expected this to intimadate his players, but was mistaken -- they came up with a simple and elegant solution that was nontheless messy. Okay, I have to ask - what elegant solution is there for an infinite number of orcs? Infinite number of orcs = infinite quantity of methane. Further explanantion should be unneccesary. Spells I wouldn't want to model - Infinite Vision. This spell enables the recipient to see through anything and everything. That is alarmingly easy to do in Fantasy HERO. The question is simply one of scale. System-wise it's simple to create a spell that can distinguish between the barrier you wish to see through and what is behind it that you wish to see (through the door to reveal the monster behind it, through the chest to see what's inside it). If it is the caster who is using it, he might even be able to modulate the effect as needed to look for certain qualities he would know about (creating in effect a very flexible Detect that depends upon his vision). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH My nomination is Replay. This spell hurtles you backward in time a specific interval (say five minutes). The problem is that the universe is exactly as it was five minutes ago, including you. You have no knowledge of future events. Therefore in five minutes, the events which caused you to cast the spell will occur again and you will be stuck in an infinite loop. Keith "Scroll up to the top and begin again" Curtis Actually, as a GM, I have created exactly this spell, and even placed it in an adventure. You're right - it was a gigantic trap. There were plenty of wanrnings placed and also a clear way in which it could be avoided or negated. The whole point was that ifyou negated it of course all the people who had been trapped in it for ages were then free (although completely unaware that 2000 years had passed....) Otherwise I agree with Curfea. Resurrection and raise dead type spells are out. One thing I always hated about DandD was the way death became a minor annoyance. One follower type in our game "died" IIRC 8 times. We used to joke that he'd turn up in heaven and they'd say: "Hi Jambon, staying long?" "No, just a couple of days until the boss gets back to the temple." "Well, that's nice. Usual room, then?" I do allow speak with dead spells but it's more accurately "speak with undead" since the only person picking up at the other end will be a spirit that *hasn't* gone to its final reward. Otherwise death loses much of its sting and that would really do wierd things to society. What would it be like if you KNEW, absolutely, that life after death existed and what it was like, because you could ask someone who had been there? No mystery and little incentive to stay alive in a tough situation if you knew that you would go to the nice place assuming you played by the rules. Also hard to argue that religion X are idolators if they have people walking around who have been to religion X's heaven and come back, which defuses the potential for much religious conflict (although I suppose you could argue that their god was real, just bad). cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH I should add - I wouldn't allow "Detect [alignment]" either of course, because alignment is a game concept that does not exist in any believable setting. Real people aren't one dimensional. That's why there are two axes of alignment: lawful-chaotic and good-evil. [/subtle jab at crappy game construct] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH I could on about alignments for aeons, but I won't do that here this morning. I'm still staring at these two "Fire Cats" on my shiny new Shirow Masamune monthly calendar. It's ver' nice. What were we talking about? Oh yeah. Well, yes, alignment comes on two axis (axes? not sure which) and this results in 9 possible solutions. Of those nine solutions, there are 3 in any given category (lawful, chaotic, neutral, neutral, good, evil). Where most people get hung up is on the idea that once you have an alignment there's no deviation at all. Once Lawful Good, you can never do anything evil; Curufea is correct - people aren't one dimensional. I use alignments as a personality snap shot; not a strait jacket of behavior. This gives everyone a guideline by which to base their actions in character without twisting them into knots trying to find a "Neutral Good" solution to a problem. Alignment = Personality Snapshot. Alignment /=/ Definitive Behavior Sorry, sore spot. Anyway, "Detect Alignment" is utterly allowable in my campaign. I've barred Ressurection, although Reincarnation is legal if you can find someone who knows how to do it. I've also barred Planar Travel (we have planes, just big problems with them) and any large scale TP (Okay, Thia, we're going to bypass a massive chunk of the adventure and just gate here). "Crap." I'm generally not down with absolute effects in general, and one of the reasons I got away from d20. Also, Wish and Miracle are spells I wouldn't even know how to run, other than as a massive burn on someone's VPP, almost simmed as dumping a ton of power in order to achieve a raw effect. Hey, that might work. Huh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilfred_Death Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH Well, it's too late...... it already happened in an earlier game. I do not want to see this spell ever ever modelled again: One of the players had a 'Nordic Rune / Spiritualist / Shaman " type character, said he needed spells for "Sex magic" as that was cultural. Party is leading 500 refugees away from 'Dark Forces' invasion of home city..... Group makes camp for night..... Wizard PC uses said spell which was a minor transform to enable all the refugees to form a very compact Conga Line...... AGH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH I could on about alignments for aeons' date=' but I won't do that here this morning. I'm still staring at these two "Fire Cats" on my shiny new Shirow Masamune monthly calendar. It's ver' nice.[/quote'] It is indeed. Although it throws me off that both of their hats say "GUM" on the front. What does gum have to do with burning cats? Okay, I have to ask - what elegant solution is there for an infinite number of orcs? A non-silly elegant solution would be an AE mind control to induce selfish infighting. Probably wouldn't take that many dice to pull off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH It is indeed. Although it throws me off that both of their hats say "GUM" on the front. What does gum have to do with burning cats? If you look towards the top, you'll see it was done for Comic GUM Magazine which was my assumption in regards to an explanation. Nice camel toe. I just noticed that. Now I'll be staring at it for the rest of the month. Infinite methane is a silly solution, but the whole thing sounds silly to begin with, and I don't handle "silly" real well. I find the game silly enough with a bunch of adults rather than ever needing to introduce potty humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH If you look towards the top' date=' you'll see it was done for [i']Comic GUM Magazine[/i] which was my assumption in regards to an explanation. Yeah, I saw that too, but then you have two hotties with hats that say "GUM". And there's still no explanation for why it says "FIRE CATS" in the middle of the pic. Nice camel toe. I just noticed that. Now I'll be staring at it for the rest of the month. Bastard, why'd you have to point that out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH Because, if you check those camel toes, those cats are clearly on FIRE. And I pointed it out because it didn't seem right that I was the only one staring it, day in, day out. The is drawn to it, don't you think? It's just... it's just... There. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH . . . I wanna Shirow calendar, too . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH Eh, any basic calendar shop should have it. I got it on an absurd sale because we purchased it the days after, no longer a gift, no longer the first. There was also a Full Metal Alchemist and a new calendar of Susan Boulette, Goddesses (I usually get her Shaman calendar) but I wanted different this year. A bit more pop. This is doing nicely. I also have a page-a-day The Onion, "Fanfare for the Area Man" and Get Fuzzy. I'm telling you. Camel toes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH I, too, have the Shirow calendar, and it is good. I hadn't noticed the camel toe, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantriped Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH Heres a Spell you never want a person to Cast Time Stop: Suppress Speed 40d6 (standard effect: 120 points), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), MegaScale (1" = 100 million km; +2 1/4) (850 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Character May Take No Other Actions, -1 1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -3/4), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4) It makes Everythign Stop, Forever, including the caster (I knew I should have bought Personal Immunity). granted this is a totally silli power, but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantriped Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH heres a practial version of the above spell you wouldn't want to let in either. Time Stop: Change Environment (Freeze Everything) 1" radius, Multiple Combat Effects, Varying Combat Effects, Personal Immunity (+1/4), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4), Invisible Power Effects, SFX Only, Hide effects of Power (Fully Invisible; Characters See the Caster Casting, But have not perception of the interlude in time.; +1), MegaScale (1" = 10 million km; +2) (90 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Spell (-1/2), Limited Power (Everything Effected By the Change Environment (read; everything but the caster and his personal effects) is Completely Immutable, And cannot be damaged in anyway for the duration of the ability. This includes attacking and opening containers or doors; -1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4). Total Cost: 26 And heres a few extra spells I doubt woudl be a good Idea to let them have. Contingency:Trigger (Variable Trigger; +1/2) for Magic up to 60 AP; Varible Special Effect (Any Arcane Magic one at a Time; +1/2)(45 Active Points); Gestures (Throughout; -1/2), Incantation (Throughout -1/2), Concentration (0 DCV; Throughout -1), Extra Time (5 Minutes; -2), Non Offensive Spells Only (-1/2), RSR (Wizardry; -1/2). Total Cost 7 As it Was: Major Transform ( Object to Object “As It Was” at time specified by caster within the last week) 1d6, Partial Transform (+1/2), Continuous (+1), Cumulative (up to 8x maximum effect)(+1 1/4),(56.25 Active Points (56)); Gestures (Both Hands; Throughout)(-3/4), Incantations (“As it Was”)(-1/4), Limited Power (“Inanimate Objects Only)(-1), Limited Power (“Can only Reverse Changes up to one Week back”)(-1). Total Cost: 17 Points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Negative Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH What are some good examples of spells that you do not want anywhere near your Fantasy HERO campaign? Detect Red Herring Summon Deus Ex Machina Suppress Game Mechanic Transform MacGuffin (into Objective) Sense Plot Hook (discriminatory, Ranged, 360) 8d6 RKA, NND, Does Body, only vs. Mood Flash Defense vs. Inspiration sense group Darkness vs. Humor sense group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH I don't know about you, but sometimes I wish players did have the spell "Detect Plot Hook". Keith "LooK! Look! It's right in front of you!!!" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Re: Spells You Don't Want to Model in FH Mute GM 4d6 cosmetic Transform carpet to coke-stained carpet. 10 STR telekinesis - limited power (only to put dice under heavy furniture) no conscious control. +2 SPD side effect (always occurs), -2 EGO, +3 INT, -5 PRE, -1 to all dex-based skills OAF caffeine 1 charge, unrecoverable, independant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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