fbdaury Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist 1.Shiva/Cassandra Cain 2.Batman/David Cain/Connor Hawke/Richard Dragon 3.Bronze Tiger/Question/Nightwing 4.Nightshade/Black Canary/Zeist/Prometheus Okay, that's more than 10 and I don't know the exact order that I would put them in except to say that Cass is #1 and Shiva #2... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksmoor Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Prometheus I would say is disqualified since he augments his MA abilities with that helmet of his. After all Bats did beat him by 'cheating'. And of course Oracle held him at bay from a WHEELCHAIR!!! Hawksmoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist 1.Shiva/Cassandra Cain 2.Batman/David Cain/Connor Hawke/Richard Dragon 3.Bronze Tiger/Question/Nightwing 4.Nightshade/Black Canary/Zeist/Prometheus Okay, that's more than 10 and I don't know the exact order that I would put them in except to say that Cass is #1 and Shiva #2... Thanks for the Ballot! I will enter your choices when I get home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Prometheus I would say is disqualified since he augments his MA abilities with that helmet of his. After all Bats did beat him by 'cheating'. And of course Oracle held him at bay from a WHEELCHAIR!!! Hawksmoor Yes, but without the helmet he is still versed in dozens of different martial art styles- the helmet just overrides his own knowledge with that of others- PS:Oracle is still pretty darn dangerous and would likely be up there on the top fifteen if not top ten were she able to walk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist You're forgetting that Catwoman took him down with a single whip shot -- and that was when his helmet was *working*. Prometheus is deadly if he has prep time or the upper hand, but he's not able to adapt to changing circumstances *at all*. Too gimmicky and narrowly focused. Not really a contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted January 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist You're forgetting that Catwoman took him down with a single whip shot -- and that was when his helmet was *working*. Prometheus is deadly if he has prep time or the upper hand, but he's not able to adapt to changing circumstances *at all*. Too gimmicky and narrowly focused. Not really a contender. Well she did hit him in the nads. That's gotta hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Well she did hit him in the nads. That's gotta hurt. Also, you have to take into account that a properly wielded bullwhip can take a man's head off so it's not like he got love tapped. Besides he got sneak attacked and if a sneak attack can be used as an argument when Batman gets taken down, it can also be used in the defence of Prometheus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Sneak attacked? Precisely how do you sneak attack someone from directly in front of him? With a *bullwhip*? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Prometheus is walking through the crowd of hostages, takes the shot from the whip in the nads and goes down. He sees Catwoman standing there and acts surprised as if he didn't expect her to be there, let alone helping out the Justice League. Now if Prometheus had seen her as Chuck seems to be suggesting, why would he be surprised? Indeed, why would he not have used the skills his helmet gave him to avoid the attack? Obviously because he'd not seen her previous to that point. Sounds like a sneak attack to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Prometheus I would say is disqualified Hawksmoor For a second there I though you were picking a fight. That... other guy definitely has some training- it's in his origin story. I'd say relying on the helmet does disqualify him though, since it's a gadget. And seeing how he had to download the skills of top 30 martial artist to beat Bats, it does kind of imply that likely he himself isn't one of them. 'Sides, the guy doesn't have enough sense to wear a cup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Or the whip struck with such force that the cup, if he did wear one, was inneffective. However that's just me nitpicking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist > Prometheus is walking through the crowd of hostages, takes the shot from the > whip in the nads and goes down. He sees Catwoman standing there and acts > surprised as if he didn't expect her to be there, let alone helping out the > Justice League. Now if Prometheus had seen her as Chuck seems to be > suggesting, why would he be surprised? Are you telling me that Prometheus has reflexes so slow that Catwoman has time to: a) walk through a crowd of reporters take off her civilian disguise (as she'd infiltrated said crowd of reporters as Catherine Grant) and reveal her costume c) take out her bullwhip (which was stowed, her being in civvies) and d) flick ye whip? And finish this all before he can even hope to dodge? If so, then the guy's obviously so slow on the uptake that he's *not* fit for this high-level a competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Or the whip struck with such force that the cup' date=' if he did wear one, was inneffective. However that's just me nitpicking. [/quote'] If I were fighting any JLA team that included the Huntress, not only would I wear one, I'd make sure it was heat and shatter resistant, and as batarang proof as I could make it. And I'd paint it yellow, just to be on the safe side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Well obviously she'd already gotten into position previously because Selina is not one to waste time. Now considering what's neccesary to disguise one's identity in the DC Universe, that is to say, not very much she could conceivably have made the change quite quickly. That's assuming she didn't hit him in the nads with the whip strike first. At any rate, my argument is not about his place in the rankings it's about wether or not he was sneak attacked. Now since previously in this storyline he was shown to be capable of defeating the Batman in hand to hand combat reasonably quickly, why would he have let the attack happen if he saw Catwoman there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist If I were fighting any JLA team that included the Huntress, not only would I wear one, I'd make sure it was heat and shatter resistant, and as batarang proof as I could make it. And I'd paint it yellow, just to be on the safe side. Fair point, though he'd really only need it to be heat and shatter resistant. Most of the JLA-ers don't go for the nads after all as most of them don't need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Repeating my own theory, it's cause while the dude's skill-chipping allows him to dominate any situation he's prepped for, it really cripples him as far as adapting to things he *hasn't* planned for. Oh, and BTW, any mention of Batman/Prometheus has to mention that in their rematch, Bruce was already winning the fight, even before he broke out the helmet cheat. AAMOF, the only reason he broke out the helmet cheat is 'cause Prometheus, frustrated with the way Bruce was making him eat his own nightstick, went 'screw this HTH noise!' and started hauling out his wrist blasters. Apparently, the only reason Batman lost the first time is he got overconfident. Second time, Bruce knew what he was up against, and brought his 'A' game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Batman was clearly winning the second fight? Didn't look that way to me. In the comic I was reading the fight looked pretty much even untill Batman busted out the cheat. After all, if Batman was winning he wouldn't NEED to use the cheat at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist > Batman was clearly winning the second fight? Yup. > Didn't look that way to me. In the comic I was > reading the fight looked pretty much even untill > Batman busted out the cheat. So, him getting punched in the face and all was 'pretty much even'? > After all, if Batman was winning he wouldn't > NEED to use the cheat at all. Until Prometheus cheated first by hauling out his wrist-gun and blasting Batman across the room with it, Prometheus was getting his face smashed in. Said wrist-gun incident is why Batman aborted to Plan Helmet. But the HTH fight? Prometheus was *not* winning. After all, if he had been winning, he wouldn't have needed to do a desperation save with his wrist-blaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Whatever Chuck. I've read the story in question and Batman only one the fight when he pulled out the cheat that he had built into Prometheus' helmet. Prometheus was not getting his face smashed in and had Batman not pulled out the cheat, the fight looked as though it could've gone on indefinetly. Now Batman was clearly doing better then he had been in his first fight with Prometheus I admit but he was not doing as well as you seem to think he was. He may have gotten a few shots in but Prometheus was getting shots of his own in and neither of them was going down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist > Whatever Chuck. I've read the story in question and [snip] ... and so have I. Furthermore, when I get home tonight, I will edit this post to provide scans. And lose the 'tude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist And despite whatever spin you put on those scans, the fact remains that Batman did not win the fight untill he pulled out the cheat. The fight was more or less equal untill then, this is fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist It is also fact that Prometheus had to cheat first, because he was losing. And Batman pulled out his cheat only in response to Prometheus'. I notice you keep ignoring this part. PS -- I really resent being called a liar, even by implication. Find a way to make your point that doesn't involve being so snotty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Only because because that never actually happened in the comic. The comic I read clearly showed Batman and Prometheus more or less evenly matched and at no point was Prometheus clearly losing untill Batman used the booby trap he'd wired into Prometheus' helmet. You keep ignoring that part, though given past interaction with you that hardly surprises me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Only because because that never actually happened in the comic. So, Prometheus didn't cheat? Didn't have to haul out his wrist gun because he wasn't getting anywhere in the hand-to-hand match? You actually claim this? Edit -- don't even need to go home. Found some scans online. Don't have a shot of the wrist-gun incident yet (I'll post it when I get home), but it's right after this page... http://pictures.greatestjournal.com/userimg/4628901/536521 You know, the page where Prometheus opens the dance by hitting Bruce once... and Bruce then proceeds to spend the next four panels kicking the crap out of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: DC's Best Martial Artist Are you even paying attention to what I am saying? I have claimed that Batman and Prometheus were more or less evenly matched. NEITHER of them were getting anyplace in hand to hand combat. Oh they landed a few shots but neither man was going down anytime soon. Could Batman have won? Maybe, but it would've taken a long time and he didn't have that time. Nor did Prometheus. They both wanted a quick victory and when they couldn't get it through hand to hand combat, they both switched tactics. Of course, Batman's tactic was the boobytrapped helmet that eventually won him the fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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