Hardcore hero?

[Guest Schwarzwald]

If I want to run a hardcore realism type game with hit locations, bleeding, permanent wounds, dying, etc. what optional rules are recommended?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

All of those rules are in Hero 5th somewhere. Check the incredibly-detailed index in the back for stuff like Disabling and the like.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

All of them.

 

Seriously, virtually all of the optional rules are aimed at increasing the "default" realism...

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

Sorry, I can't resist:

 

I'd suggest:

 

Hit Locations

Bleeding

Permanent Wounds

Dying (it's not optional, but hey).

 

Hit Locations are standard canon.

Bleeding/Impairment/Disabling are all in FREd. (Fifth Revised Edition, retconned from 'Fred', the 5th Ed. rules).

Limit access to speed/easy healing

Limit armor availability - someone with no rPD/rED takes full damage from a killing attack. That means a shotty dealing 3d6+1 is going to cripple, and likely kill (through bleed-out) a normal. Worst case knock them out instantly (i.e., "He's bleeding out! Call an ambulance!" is what that simulates).

 

Other than that, common sense and good judgment. Run some test combats with the people in question, get a guage for how you want it to flow and go from there. Most people use a pistol as a 1d6 up to 1d6 1/2 weapon, a shotty seems to be in the 2d6 - 3d6 range, and I modeled my Sniper Rifle as a ... 4d6+1 I think (Halo Hero thread has all my builds). Those are universal sci-fi weapons; you can use the Assault Rifle as a Pulse Rifle from Aliens for all it matters.

 

If you want me to model the over/under grenade launcher, I'd be happy to do that as well, but one does not exist in HALO canon, so I didn't include it.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

All of them.

 

Seriously, virtually all of the optional rules are aimed at increasing the "default" realism...

 

The downside, of course, is that players soon realize that there's not as much point in developping a rich background or fleshing out the character because he's not likely to live past two sessions ...

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

All of them.

 

Seriously, virtually all of the optional rules are aimed at increasing the "default" realism...

Yeah, pretty much. (Except for Knockback, which is a comic-book thing.)

 

Tho you might not want to go crazy and try to throw everything into your first game. I've known people who tried to use every single optional rule, then got frustrated at how complicated the system was and how long it took to learn. It's not that any of the optional rules are that complicated; but they do slow things down a bit, and your first few combats are likely to be slow enough as it is if you don't have the basic rules down. So maybe pick one or two optional rules that you think are most important (like hit location) and run a session or two; then add impairing/disabling wounds, bleeding, and so forth once you've got the basics down.

 

Just a thought.

[Curufea]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

The downside' date=' of course, is that players soon realize that there's not as much point in developping a rich background or fleshing out the character because he's not likely to live past two sessions ...[/quote']

How old are you? How old am I?

I'm pretty sure I've lived past two sessions in real life

Or are you saying realism in Hero is deadlier than realism in real life?

[DEFCON Clown]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

How old are you? How old am I?

I'm pretty sure I've lived past two sessions in real life

Or are you saying realism in Hero is deadlier than realism in real life?

Well Derek is 38 and you are 35.

 

I think he meant that combat is so deadly with all of the optional rules that your chance for survival isn't too good.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

Funny thing about realistic combat options.

It makes players act realistically.

 

Like taking defensive actions, holding phases, using cover and the like.

Or not, and realistically getting cut down in a hail of gunfire when they try to stand it the open and take on all comers with their 733+ uber-gun.

 

I've run a long term Star Hero campaign with weapons averaging about twice the AP level of most modern guns ( a few extra DC's, and a lot more advantages and add ons like targeting gear), with armor WAY behind the curve... and most of the characters did OK. Occasonal PC deaths, far more major medicals (med tech was rather good, so anything short of death was usually just a downtime exercise), and LOTS of fairly realistic play.

 

YMMV

[Robyn]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

 

I think he meant that combat is so deadly with all of the optional rules that your chance for survival isn't too good.

 

Schwarzwald - if you're going to make your game realistic, try to give your PC's options that don't involve combat. If they can avoid taking that sort of risk, they will. Or they'll get killed a few times figuring it out. In any case, the HERO system is not all about combat (though a majority of the pages in my book do seem devoted to it).

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

 

How old are you? How old am I?

I'm pretty sure I've lived past two sessions in real life

Yeah, but most of our lives would make for WAY boring gaming.

 

Truly realistic combat can - and IMO should - be deadly. But I've run some pretty-realistic Hero games, and player mortality has been quite low. But the PCs quickly learned to duck/dodge/hide/etc, as ANB said.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

If I want to run a hardcore realism type game with hit locations' date=' bleeding, permanent wounds, dying, etc. what optional rules are recommended?[/quote']

 

Hit Locations, Bleeding, Disabling/Wounding. Dying is a standard rule. But if you want dying to be a likely event, you could deny characters any armor/resistant defenses and use a lot of Killing Attacks.

[Alibear]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

Make sure you give all the characters a 0 point real person disadvantage and make sure they know that falling froma building will probably be fatal.

 

If they are normal people would they really want to fight on top of a moving car? Or even get into gunfights?

 

You might want to consider the getting a copy of Dark Champions and having a look through that.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

 

Make sure you give all the characters a 0 point real person disadvantage and make sure they know that falling froma building will probably be fatal.

Well yeah, I suppose you could. Or you could just tell your players: "This is a realistic game. The laws of physics will be in effect, so you're not going to get away with lots of Hollywood BS stunts." And then play appropriately. That's called ground rules for the campaign, not a disad for specific characters.

[Blue]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

Oh, so HardcoreHero isn't the new name for the much lauded PornHero?

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

 

Oh' date=' so HardcoreHero isn't the new name for the much lauded PornHero? [/quote']

Y'know, as often as that joke comes up, I'm getting more and more tempted all the time to simply write that sucker.

 

If I didn't think Steve, Darren, et. al. would be after me with pitchforks & torches, that is.

 

 

 

 

[prestidigitator]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

One thing you might consider is changing the Bleeding rules slightly, because they aren't all that dangerous in the standard system. What I do is make the rolls that would normally stop the bleeding entirely instead reduce the bleeding by one level on the chart.

 

You might do some forum or Google searches for other discussions on the Bleeding rules. There are some good ideas out there.

[Dino]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

Y'know, as often as that joke comes up, I'm getting more and more tempted all the time to simply write that sucker.

 

If I didn't think Steve, Darren, et. al. would be after me with pitchforks & torches, that is.

 

 

 

 

 

I know someone (who posts on these very boards) who already wrote it, way back in third edition.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

I know someone (who posts on these very boards) who already wrote it' date=' way back in third edition.[/quote']

Well, of course I was thinking of the 5th Edition version.

 

Got a link for it? Wanna PM me about it?

[pinecone]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

If I want to run a hardcore realism type game with hit locations' date=' bleeding, permanent wounds, dying, etc. what optional rules are recommended?[/quote']

All of them...I even did this with full supers a time of two...I loved it, others with less iron agey tastes did not...

[Dust Raven]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

One thing you might consider is changing the Bleeding rules slightly, because they aren't all that dangerous in the standard system. What I do is make the rolls that would normally stop the bleeding entirely instead reduce the bleeding by one level on the chart.

 

You might do some forum or Google searches for other discussions on the Bleeding rules. There are some good ideas out there.

 

Actually, the Bleeding rules are plenty dangerous. The only time they aren't is when you have a healty medic with a Paremedics Skill 14- (or better) nearby. Take away that medic (or make him less skilled) and who's gonna patch up the bleeding? There's a penalty for the amount of negative BODY the bleeder has, and that can make or break the medic's roll.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

Depends on how dangerous you want it, I s'pose. The official bleeding rules are just dangerous enough IMX to make characters periodically have to stop, yell "MEDIC!" and wait while they get patched up. But as long as you have a decent medic nearby (that can get to you in a timely manner), odds of dying from blood loss are fairly low. If you want characters to have a chance of dying even with medical attention, then prestidigitator's suggestion looks good. Personally, I'm happy with the rules as written, but I can see wanting to make it harder for some games.

[input.jack]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

I know someone (who posts on these very boards) who already wrote it' date=' way back in third edition.[/quote']

 

*Sigh* That would be...me

[Dust Raven]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

Depends on how dangerous you want it' date=' I s'pose. The official bleeding rules are just dangerous enough IMX to make characters periodically have to stop, yell [b']"MEDIC!"[/b] and wait while they get patched up. But as long as you have a decent medic nearby (that can get to you in a timely manner), odds of dying from blood loss are fairly low. If you want characters to have a chance of dying even with medical attention, then prestidigitator's suggestion looks good. Personally, I'm happy with the rules as written, but I can see wanting to make it harder for some games.

 

Or deny the group a proper medic. Even if some character in the group has Paramedics, they still get a penalty to their roll in proportion to the character's negative BODY.

 

What's more, the Bleeding rules just make the character lose additional BODY per Turn. The standard rules for death and dying make the character automatically lose BODY/Turn until stabalized with a Paramedics roll (or dead). Bleeding just helps him die faster and possibly pass out while doing so.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Hardcore hero?

 

Actually' date=' the Bleeding rules are plenty dangerous. The only time they aren't is when you have a healty medic with a Paremedics Skill 14- (or better) nearby. Take away that medic (or make him less skilled) and who's gonna patch up the bleeding? There's a penalty for the amount of negative BODY the bleeder has, and that can make or break the medic's roll.[/quote']

If no medic's around the bleeding will stop on its own in a few Turns of inactivity, and according to the standard rules, the more you are bleeding the better chance for it to stop. At 1d6 on the chart, there is about a 17% chance each Turn that the bleeding will stop. At 6d6 on the chart, there is about a 50% chance each Turn that the bleeding will stop. And when it stops it stops completely.