What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

[Rkane_1]

We have a thread for what fundamental changes to the HERO system do you change. Now lets go the other direction. What fundamental things do you think they "got right"?

 

I think the point allaocation system with Skill based rather than Class/Level based is the way to go. There are some drawbacks (min-maxers) but overall I don't believe that people can be hammered into "classes". What are your thoughts?

[McManus]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

I like the basic theory behind capabilities and special effect. There are times it is strained but in general I like that you don’t have to buy laser blast and chill ray as distinct powers.

[Talon]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

The Time Chart and all its varied uses.

[McCoy]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

1. Point allocation, better than random

 

2. Skill driven system, better than levels

 

3. Speed chart

 

4. Bell curve for skill test /combat, better than flat curve

 

5. KNOCKBACK! You just can't have comic book combat without the overly theatrical knockback!

[sbarron]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

Breaking damage into Stun and Body was a great idea.

 

Allocating damage by (damage done - armor = damage taken) is good, too.

 

I like the Speed chart.

 

I really like the pay points for everything in supers games. It really enforced the genre.

 

Plus, all that McCoy said.

[Flames]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

I appreciate the modular approach, where additional rules can be tacked on or ignored at the GM's discretion.

 

Optional rules fit snugly into the existing system without adding too much complexity.

 

The lengthy and detailed list of combat maneuvers makes for mechanical differences between characters' approaches to combat, a feature lacking in most other games. There can be three martial artists in a group and each one can have an entirely different set of maneuvers and weapon specialties, and it actually makes a difference in combat.

 

Super-skills are an innovative way of using game mechanics to reflect genre conventions.

 

GMs are encouraged to award XP and Resource Points for good roleplaying and smart thinking, rather than just killing things.

 

Potential abuses of the rules system are highlighted in the rules themselves, with stern warnings like "A Disadvantage that isn't a disadvantage isn't worth any points!" and "This power can easily unbalance your game!" Game systems rarely point out their own potential drawbacks.

[JohnTaber]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

I like the basic theory behind capabilities and special effect. There are times it is strained but in general I like that you don’t have to buy laser blast and chill ray as distinct powers.

 

Nailed it.

[schir1964]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

When I was first introduced to the system, one of the things that was different from other games I had played was the separation of the "To Hit" and "Damage" rolls. When I read this I thought, "That makes so much more sense!!" (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[gojira]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

Another vote for seperation of powers and SFX. This helps with character concept so much.

 

Disadvantages seperate from any power or character archetype. Let the player define his character.

 

Advantages and Limitations.

 

The 1/X system for Limitations. Brilliant.

 

Combat maneuvers. Half phases. The speed chart--no other system does speedsters as well as Hero because of the speed chart.

 

Buy everything with points. Apply any advantage or limitation to anything with GM permission--this rocks.

 

Lots of characteristics, lots of things to do with them. This is where GURPS tends to fail, it's too easy just to buy up DEX and INT in GURPS to minmax.

 

Powers are good, for every power there exists a cheaper defense.

 

Lots of powers to buy, lots of defenses to buy. No one single defense always works--players must specialize to be good at what they do. Still, the generalist is a useful player.

 

Derived characteristics. I just love 'em.

[Frenchman]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

SPEED! *twitch**twitch**twitch*

 

No really, I love the speed chart - its what drew me into the combat system and got me to stick with the game long enough to learn about its other wonders

 

Like Hit Locations - I love 'em

First System I played which uses a point-buy method - not counting the old Players Option stuff from AD&D which was just horrible.

The level of detail and intricacy with which you can make your characters is amazing - the only restriction is what you can afford and what your GM will allow.

The separation of mechanics and special effects - this is the defining characteristic of the HERO system in my view, and its best one.

 

[Rapier]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

For me the difference between Hit and Damage was VITAL.

 

Separating damage between BODY and STUN was awesome.

 

But my favourite has to be that you don't have to start out in SuckTown, Population 1. There was nothing I hated more than starting out as a 1st Level Mage. You walk around in the middle of the party, throw out your one Magic Missle or Sleep or Web and then you are done for the rest of the day. In Hero you can build almost the perfect character from day one. If you want to be one of the best swordsmen in the campaign you can build it right out of the box.

 

I like the fact that XP is rewarded in dribs and drabs (2 or 3 pts for a night) instead of buttloads dependent upon what you killed.

 

I like the fact that you are not shoe-horned into a specific "class." I know that has changed some with the newer d20 versions where you have more variety with skills and feats and talents and things, but Hero does it best.

 

I like the way they simplified things with sticking to d6.

 

I like that you get to roll LOTS of dice. It makes you feel like you REALLY accomplish something when you toss out 12 or 15 dice.

 

I like the care they took in pointing out Stop Sign powers.

 

I like that they kept all the rules (mostly) in one basic book and that subsequent books did not alter any rules or so expand the rules that owning one book made Warriors the most powerful class.

 

Oh. Steve. I like Steve. In what other game can you actually ask the Line Developer a rules question and get an answer, usually, within hours?

 

I LOVE the little Hero guy. He's cute as the dickens.

[TheRavenIs]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

I think that almost all of what has been done over the last 25+ yrs has shown that the core idea's prove that it was done right at the start and any changes that up until now has been just cleaning up the slight issues. This comes from someone that has played this game system for as long as it has existed.

[Dust Raven]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

I believe the key fundamental element of the Hero System is that everything is based on a point-buy system and nothing is randomly rolled during character creation. Another is the divorcing of SFX from game mechanics.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

I haven't read the other comments, so I can post mine without influence from others.

 

First: Character creation.

 

First and foremost the divorce of special effects from mechanics. This allows someone to build a character whose specifics were undreamt of by the game designers. It also allows for very easy intergenre play, as the specific mechanical rules do not change from genre to genre.

 

Secondarily the fact it is a point based system.

 

Figured Characteristics. I love the fact that your charcteristics interact with each other.

 

Power Frameworks (all of them). They increase the flexibility of an already immensly flexible system.

 

Second: In play.

 

Speed Chart. I have yet to see any other system that allows that kind of flow and flexibilty in combat - either everyone moves once then everyone moves again, and/or you get "multiple attacks" in a round. The speed chart allows things like speesters that can do anything more often than someone else. And for the tactical aspects of the game it really makes things interesting.

 

The mauever system/martial arts - this give characters options to do so many things. And all the martial mauevers just make it better.

[JmOz]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

I love the fact that each character has basicaly two very different types of defence, not PD & ED (like that fact to) but DCV & DEF, now a light fighter can have a high DCV and not get hit often while a heavy fighter relies on Plate armor ...

[BNakagawa]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

In actuality, I like the four types of defenses in Hero.

 

There are two defense modes, active and passive. Active defenses are things you do to avoid getting hurt. Dodge, dive for cover, missile deflect, block, etc.

 

Passive defenses are things that you are - high dcv, big defenses, damage reduction etc.

 

Then there are the two classes of defenses, avoidance and abatement. You can either avoid getting hit or you can make getting hit not hurt so much...

 

Between these four categories, it is possible to make broader characters than games where you don't have many options.

 

(granted, there really is only one active/abatement defense option - roll with blow.) ((unless you count diving for cover away from ground zero against explosions))

[xxwolverine1xx]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

ONE BOOK! How many other systems out there where you only need one book. Hero is the only one that comes to mind. (Besides old school Boot Hill system which is really fun. Fast character gen. but fast deaths.)

 

Not to mention, I have played all styles of heros. From to Jedi's to Transformers. There is nothing you can't do "IF" you have enough points that is.

[ghost-angel]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

Divorcing SFX from Mechanics.

Point Based....

 

actually.. go the rule book, open the front cover, start on page 1 and go all the way to the back cover. They got all that right.

[Kabluey]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

So many things, it would be hard to name them all. If I had to pick a few, I'd say:

* The fact that everything (equipment, spells, talents, etc.) is built off powers - makes it easy to read a spell, for example, and to know exactly what it will do and makes the whole system more balanced and less arbitrary.

* The speed chart - it really allows a speedster, for example, to shine.

* Abort actions - adds a tactical level to combat I found lacking in other games

That's just my quick list.

 

And since something I said they got wrong in the other thread was pointed out to me not to be so (specifically that normal max stats cap at 30, not 20 as I thought), I guess they got that right too.

[gojira]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

In Sidekick, physical stats tend to cap at 30 for normal humans. Mental stats (INT, EGO) and a few other (PRE, COM, maybe one other) cap at 50.

[Dust Raven]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

I've got something to add to my previous statements about what the Hero System got fundimentally right.

 

Publication.

 

This game died in the 90s. Capital D, big I and another huge D. Died. No writers, no printers, no publishers. Nothing. It bounced around a few companies, but that was just circling the drain. The whole time the fans cried out for their favorite game. Some of us pretended it had never gone away and just kept on truckin' like it was still out there avaiable in the stores and a new suppliments could expected next week. We talked and debated issues concerning the rules like they were new, like they were something that might someday get revised or corrected despite the fact there was no chance in hell of seing anything new in point.

 

Then some players decided to pretend for real, bought the rights and made the rest of our delusional wishes become a reality.

 

In short, the most fundamental thing the Hero System got right is that it never gave up. This isn't just a game about heroes, this is a heroic game.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

I've got something to add to my previous statements about what the Hero System got fundimentally right.

 

Publication.

 

This game died in the 90s. Capital D, big I and another huge D. Died. No writers, no printers, no publishers. Nothing. It bounced around a few companies, but that was just circling the drain. The whole time the fans cried out for their favorite game. Some of us pretended it had never gone away and just kept on truckin' like it was still out there avaiable in the stores and a new suppliments could expected next week. We talked and debated issues concerning the rules like they were new, like they were something that might someday get revised or corrected despite the fact there was no chance in hell of seing anything new in point.

 

Then some players decided to pretend for real, bought the rights and made the rest of our delusional wishes become a reality.

 

In short, the most fundamental thing the Hero System got right is that it never gave up. This isn't just a game about heroes, this is a heroic game.

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dust Raven again.

 

of course...

[ghost-angel]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

Along the lines of Publication DOJ has done a phenomenal job making sure that supplements are just that - supplements and that all you REALLY need is the core book.

 

Everything else is icing on the cake.

[tomd1969]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

I've got something to add to my previous statements about what the Hero System got fundimentally right.

 

Publication.

 

This game died in the 90s. Capital D, big I and another huge D. Died. No writers, no printers, no publishers. Nothing. It bounced around a few companies, but that was just circling the drain. The whole time the fans cried out for their favorite game. Some of us pretended it had never gone away and just kept on truckin' like it was still out there avaiable in the stores and a new suppliments could expected next week. We talked and debated issues concerning the rules like they were new, like they were something that might someday get revised or corrected despite the fact there was no chance in hell of seing anything new in point.

 

Then some players decided to pretend for real, bought the rights and made the rest of our delusional wishes become a reality.

 

In short, the most fundamental thing the Hero System got right is that it never gave up. This isn't just a game about heroes, this is a heroic game.

 

Amen, brother... amen. Preach on about the game system that rose from the grave!

 

All hail Hero!

 

I'll take my meds now.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: What fundamental things did they really get "right"?

 

Then some players decided to pretend for real, bought the rights and made the rest of our delusional wishes become a reality.

 

I remember both the "We bought the company" announcement on the champs mailing list, and thier production plans... after all the stuff we had heard over the previous year, I was very skeptical thinking "Oh yeah, right. "

Then the HERO 5th came out on time. And then the next few books. I was rather surprised, but it wasn't until HERO Designer 1 came out that I really got on the bandwagon.

 

I agree there. That was something fundamentally right.