A general question? What about Shields?

[TheRavenIs]

I have a very simple question that I hope get's intresting answers. How do the creative minds of the HEROdom do Ship Shields.

 

I just wonder if you do them with a mind toward what you have seen on TV or Movies.

 

I'll post a build I use and the way I do them after I get a few responces.

[DEFCON Clown]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

I mainly use Damage Reduction for shields. I've never really seen a spaceship shield which actually stopped damage, all they seem to do is lessen it.

[Starwolf]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

It really depends on the effect you are looking for. For shields that cannot be extended I use Force Field. If the shields can be extended or create a bubble around the ship I use Force Wall.

 

The second thing I consider is whether the shields are sectional, if so then I apply limited coverage and then buy multiple instances for each section. This allows you to have for instance forward shields down or damaged yet aft shields are still at full.

 

Which brings us to the third thing I consider. Can the shields be weakened , if so I apply the ablative limitation with the addendum as to how long they take to regenerate to full capacity.

 

If you actually want shields to leak some damage on each attack, IMHO I think it is actually easier to modify the weapon damage rather than the shields. I made all ship mounted weapons Pentrating, with the larger the weapoin the more levels of penetrating. Use this idea carfeully though, as it can make ship weapons very deadly and will shorten both battles and life expectancies.

[JohnTaber]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

Hi Folks: Here is something I am doing. This is really simply another application of Side Effect that is just more defined. First I'll paste in the text from my campaign doc then I'll show you an example:

 

 

1.1.1.1 Fragmenting Defense

 

This is a new limitation that can be taken on defensive powers. It is used to reflect a defense that chips away as it is struck. In essence this is a very specific form of the Side Effect limitation. I got the idea from an article in Digital Hero and modified it to suit my needs.

 

Fragmenting is a base –1 limitation. When struck a fragmenting defense loses 1 point of PD or ED based on the attack type. For every point of Body done that exceeds the defenses given by the power an additional point of PD or ED must be removed. The adjustment in the defense is done after the effects of the damage are applied. Here is a brief example. An energy attack that does 8 Body hits a 10 PD/10 ED Force Field. No Body gets through and the target gets to use the full 10 ED for soaking the damage. After the attack the Force Field is considers 10 PD/9 ED. If the attack did 12 Body the resulting Force Field would be 10 PD/7 ED.

 

At the end of each turn the power recovers 1 point of PD or ED. The recovery rate can be changed by moving up or down the time chart. For each move up the chart a –1/4 additional limitation is granted. For each move down the chart a +1/4 move is made in the value of the limitation.

 

Here is an example:

Shields - Fore: FF (20 PD/20 ED), Adjustable (Faceable; +1/4) (50 Active Points); OIF Bulky (Shield Generator; -1), Fragmenting Defense (-1), Limited Coverage 90 Degrees (-1/2)

 

I just buy that four times.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

I like that a lot better than ablative. It's a lot less die rolling and more consistent. Repped!

[Thia Halmades]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

That is very nice, and sounds similar to what's proposed in FH for modeling more 'realistic' amor.

[Starwolf]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

Hi Folks: Here is something I am doing. This is really simply another application of Side Effect that is just more defined. First I'll paste in the text from my campaign doc then I'll show you an example:

 

 

Here is an example:

Shields - Fore: FF (20 PD/20 ED), Adjustable (Faceable; +1/4) (50 Active Points); OIF Bulky (Shield Generator; -1), Fragmenting Defense (-1), Limited Coverage 90 Degrees (-1/2)

 

I just buy that four times.

 

Very nice!

[shadowcat1313]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

great idea, can I borrow it for Traveller for Hero, I would want to use it instead of ablative for ships armor, since it gradually chips the armor away for the most part

[JohnTaber]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

You can definitely borrow it. I really need to get a copy of your Traveller stuff...where is that link...I'll check your sig when I get out of this post.

 

I actually use this for ship shields AND for personal shields. For character shields it allows them to take one good hit then they better get behind cover. It has worked very well for me.

 

Forgot! It makes fighters with tiny autofire attacks useful too. Imaging 10 fighters on one side of a capital ship. They will knock down the shields fairly effectively...allowing the big guns to blast in. Hehehe.

[TheRavenIs]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

Hi Folks: Here is something I am doing. This is really simply another application of Side Effect that is just more defined. First I'll paste in the text from my campaign doc then I'll show you an example:

 

 

Here is an example:

Shields - Fore: FF (20 PD/20 ED), Adjustable (Faceable; +1/4) (50 Active Points); OIF Bulky (Shield Generator; -1), Fragmenting Defense (-1), Limited Coverage 90 Degrees (-1/2)

 

I just buy that four times.

 

I like this, consider it borrowed.

 

Will rep when I can.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

Forgot! It makes fighters with tiny autofire attacks useful too. Imaging 10 fighters on one side of a capital ship. They will knock down the shields fairly effectively...allowing the big guns to blast in. Hehehe.

 

Hmm, this is one side effect of the limitation I don't like. A pair of AF 5 attacks can render the shield nearly useless in no time. Does the damage have to exceed the defense in order for the defense to go down? Does an autofire attack knock it down once per hit or just once?

[Insaniac99]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

Hmm' date=' this is one side effect of the limitation I don't like. A pair of AF 5 attacks can render the shield nearly useless in no time. Does the damage have to exceed the defense in order for the defense to go down? Does an autofire attack knock it down once per hit or just once?[/quote']

 

another option is perhaps that if the attack does less that half the shields defense in body then it won't remove a pip. thus a heavy battle cruiser with kill the cap ship's shields in a few hits, and the light fighter won't scrath the ship, (or the cap ship has much more powerful shields, either one will work) but a group of heavy fighters can lower the shields with time.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

your using light attacks to scrub the armor or shields essentially

 

couple of options I see

1. only scrubs after a penetrating hit or a critical hit

2. scrubs on an activation roll

[Erkenfresh]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

another option is perhaps that if the attack does less that half the shields defense in body then it won't remove a pip. thus a heavy battle cruiser with kill the cap ship's shields in a few hits' date=' and the light fighter won't scrath the ship, (or the cap ship has much more powerful shields, either one will work) but a group of heavy fighters can lower the shields with time.[/quote']

 

That sounds nice but I'm still concerned about autofire. Fighters will have a huge bonus to OCV to hit capital ships due to size and thus have a high chance of getting multiple hits. If I were to use this disad, I'd rule that autofire can take the shields down a notch only once per attack.

 

Furthermore, I'd make the shields lose 1 each of PD and ED per hit, just to make the bookkeeping simpler.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

A different idea for ship shields:

 

BODY

 

If the shields stop damage until they're down, just buy more BODY for the ship (add Advantages and Limitations to taste) and as the 'ship' takes damage, it just comes off of the 'shields' first.

 

Good for 'all damage taken weakens the shields' instead of 'energy over X amount goes through'.

[TheRavenIs]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

Intresting idea SCUBA. Might use it eventually.

[Curufea]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

Forcefields are a bit too rubber science for me - I tend not to have them in games.

 

[edit]

But I do allow artificial gravity and a form of hyperspace.

[LunaRagno]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

I find that the discussion in Star Hero, upon pages 198 and 199, is quite useful. The only irritation I find is the idea of dividing up the field into four sections. It should, I hold, be six sections. "Top" and "bottom" need as much care as the other four directions.

[Curufea]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

Only if you have 3D space combat (see that other thread)

If just using a flat map, then it works out.

[Basil]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

Only if you have 3D space combat (see that other thread)

Link, please?

 

If just using a flat map, then it works out.

A flat map should be considered an approximation of 3D space. So, I agree with Luna Ragno: 6 shields.

 

Or even more.

[Spence]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

Or four shields, like slices of an orange meeting at the top and bottom.......

[Curufea]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

Link, please?

 

 

A flat map should be considered an approximation of 3D space. So, I agree with Luna Ragno: 6 shields.

 

Or even more.

 

I mention the various things I like about 3D over 2D in space combat here-

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48561

[Spence]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

Curufea, did you ever get the chance to try SITS?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

I could really do with a good 3D combat modeller, but I doubt it's something that I could pull off with variations in height from stands and very specific models. The great thing about games like G-Police, Descent Freespace & Colony Wars is that they really nailed the radar design. Not only is it always relative to you, but the disc also shows relative height away from you - you know someone is 'lined up' on the radar (and how to get to them) when they share your plane (your 'angle of attack') and your ships orientation (your x-axis, or your facing). Then you can focus on pulling the trigger and making with the blasting.

 

This is best done as raw narration IME, or you need an actual star-ship combat modeller.

[Spence]

Re: A general question? What about Shields?

 

Well, Ad Astras SITS, (Saganami Island Tactical Simulator) does a great job for 3d combat. The chart/control sheet called an AVID really does take the math and guesswork out of it. They have a version called Attack Vector: Tactical, that was first and was where they developed their 3d system. But I like SITS better because it sims the Honor Harrington universe. They have some great mini's for the HH ships, but you need flight boxes to use them in the actual game and they are not available yet. So right now you have to use the box mini's, small cardstock boxes with the images of the ships printed on them. Attitude is represented by using tilt boxes. It may not sound right, but it all really works well. The paperclip principle. Once the paperclip was invented everyone slapped their forheads with how simple the idea was.