Superhero Politics

[tunglashr]

I have been working on creating a superhero world where the cold war continues to rage in 1999, and supers (who have only been around 15 years or so) are tokens in a political game governments play against each other. In other words, countries weild political power with their heroes, not their nuclear weapons. These heroes who represent governments also tend to have a nationalistic bent (due to the worlds origin).

 

Any ideas for this kind of a setting would be appreciated. Also, I know its going to be difficult for me to implement the under the table politicking that I am sure should be rife in the setting, so any suggestions on that front are solicited double.

 

Our game group has a wiki, so I spend time writing things for the players to read. I would welcome someone else if they wanted to help me work on this as well, but since the wiki is open, I cant have too many people messing things up.

 

Anybody interested in helping to create a world then watching it as it grows via the wiki? You could even work on concurrent world events, news reports and the like.

 

Help me, I want ideas!

[Vestnik]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

Where does the history of the game world divert from that of the real world? Gorbachev never came to power? His efforts to end the Cold War were rebuffed in the US?

[tunglashr]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

Where does the history of the game world divert from that of the real world? Gorbachev never came to power? His efforts to end the Cold War were rebuffed in the US?

 

Hey, doesnt Vestnik=Harbinger? You may be happy to know that my non-American heroes mostly have names in their native tongue. Since my girlfriend is from Armenia she gave me a hand with the Russian ones. And like you have pointed out, the Russian section of history is the most important to drive the Cold War.

 

My history begins to divulge in the early 80's with the rise of the first superhero (Fist). Superheroes are called Exemplars, and especially early Russia had an inordinately high number of them per capita. This tended to reinforce the inherent communist jingoism, and worked to keep their economy strong. They also had more scientific breakthroughs (most likely because of borderline super-types with super intellects), which worked in tandem with the nationalism to keep the Soviets on the forefront of world technology, instead of lagging behind.

[Chimpira]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

Well, there is a lot to cover. If you have not read it I think that you might find reading 'The Winter Men' written by Brett Lewis with art by John Paul Leon or 'The American Way' written by John Ridley with art by Goerges Jeanty interesting.

 

Does this world have symbolic superheroes whose only real job is to keep the propaganda mill rolling? Is the real work handled by the supers who work for the governments shadow organizations? I think a little more detail might be helpful.

[tunglashr]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

Well, there is a lot to cover. If you have not read it I think that you might find reading 'The Winter Men' written by Brett Lewis with art by John Paul Leon or 'The American Way' written by John Ridley with art by Goerges Jeanty interesting.

 

Does this world have symbolic superheroes whose only real job is to keep the propaganda mill rolling? Is the real work handled by the supers who work for the governments shadow organizations? I think a little more detail might be helpful.

 

Ill check out those books.

 

I hadnt considered that last point. With only an estimated 250 supers in the world there isnt much room for lots of shadow types, but I would assume that the countries that can afford to do that, do.

 

Countries to have 'Mouthpiece' Exemplars, those who travel the country recruiting. Some, like the US's Magnum, are semi-retired very accomplished heroes of the past. Others, like Brett Hart from Canada (yes, that Brett Hart), just took to it naturally because of their previous experiences.

[assault]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

This tended to reinforce the inherent communist jingoism' date=' and worked to keep their economy strong. They also had more scientific breakthroughs (most likely because of borderline super-types with super intellects), which worked in tandem with the nationalism to keep the Soviets on the forefront of world technology, instead of lagging behind.[/quote']

 

One aspect of the Real World Soviet technological lag was that their science was better than their ability to put it into practice.

 

A very large number of Soviet inventions ended up being patented in Finland, apparently.

 

The additional economic boost from the presence of supers would presumably help with that.

 

Another thing to think of in this setting, though, is whether or not supers are loyal to "their" governments. Even a few oppositionist supers could negate or tie up a lot of pro-government ones. Nor would all "pro-government" supers necessarily be pulling in the same direction.

[zornwil]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

If supers have been around a while, I would consider ripping off ideas from Watchmen.

[Wanderer]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

Looks like Ultimate Marvel and Supreme Power are going to be highly inspirational, as they both thoroughly explore the concept of "international superhuman genetic arms race", and "superhumans as the supreme weapon". I tried to explore the possibilities of a similar scenario myself: check

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42036

[Vestnik]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

Hey, doesnt Vestnik=Harbinger?

 

Yes it does! Good job! It's usually translated as "herald," but harbinger is close and sounds much cooler.

[Vestnik]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

One aspect of the Real World Soviet technological lag was that their science was better than their ability to put it into practice.

 

A very large number of Soviet inventions ended up being patented in Finland, apparently.

 

That was an inherent feature of the command economy system. Soviet technology kicked ass. Mass-producing it was another matter.* And a lot was not implemented for political reasons -- for instance, Soviet computer technology was excellent by the standards of the time, but PCs were not introduced, because you can write a political pamphlet on one...

 

* Except for military tech. Military production was treated as a top state priority, so the slip-shod work that was normal for civilian production would have been considered treason in a military factory.

 

Soviet inventors didn't get any money from sales of the invention BTW. I don't think Kalashnikov cot a kopeck for his rifle.

[clsage]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

Any ideas for this kind of a setting would be appreciated.

Help me, I want ideas!

 

You might not need any more Soviet ideas but I had to share two:

 

Molniya (Russian молния - lightning) --- Obviously an electrical based

energy projector

 

Tunguska (Russian Тунгуска - a sparsely populated region in Siberia famous

for the massive explosion that occured in the region in 1908) --- Another

energy projector with special emphasis on explosion based attacks

 

-Carl-

[Vestnik]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

You might not need any more Soviet ideas but I had to share two:

 

Molniya (Russian молния - lightning) --- Obviously an electrical based

energy projector

 

Tunguska (Russian Тунгуска - a sparsely populated region in Siberia famous

for the massive explosion that occured in the region in 1908) --- Another

energy projector with special emphasis on explosion based attacks

 

-Carl-

 

I'm playing in a Russia-based PBEM campaign run on the uberworld site. There are lots of good ideas there if you look around.

[Vestnik]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

I think one important thing to be considered is the position of China in all this. Is China a growing power in this world? Is it still in an anti-Soviet position of detente with the US?

[Sundog]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

Also, with Exemplars of their own, the Non-Aligned Movement might really have gotten somewhere. The third-world was getting sick of being used as the Superpowers' chessboard as it was.

 

Oh, you'll also have to deal with the Afghanistan situation. Are the Soviets bogged down, or did the Red Army lose face like it did in the real world? Or did Exemplar presence result in a Soviet victory (and at what cost, to the Soviet Union, the Afghans, or the Exemplars involved?).

[assault]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

Oh' date=' you'll also have to deal with the Afghanistan situation.[/quote']

 

There would be a lot of situations like this to deal with.

 

Rewriting history is hard work. That's why my attempt at it focussed more on when the moon was colonised and when flying cars were introduced than on world politics. Of course it was an extremely Silver Age setting, with a lot of things you probably wouldn't want to look at too hard.

[Vestnik]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

One would have to work out what Alternative Universe Soviet Union was like. In the real world, the Gorbachev people came to power around 1985 and initiated Glasnost and Perestroika in order to liberalize the country and reduce tensions with the West. For various reasons they botched the attempt, and this led to the failed "hard-line putsch" to oust Gorbachev in 1991. The putsch was defeated and the fear of the "return of the headliners" was used by Yeltsin etc. to seize power and break up the Union.

 

So, in Alternative Universe USSR, there are three options with this:

 

1. Gorbachev succeeded: the USSR still exists, but it is a democratic and market-economy-based, non-Communist USSR. This wouldn't work because although the USSR exists, the Cold War wouldn't, presumably.

 

2. The Gorby people never came to power. Perhaps Andropov lived longer? He was a reformer too, but would probably have followed the Chinese Model , pushing through economic reforms through authoritarian means. This USSR would probably look something like contemporary China.

 

3. Probably the best option if you want a villainous USSR: The hard-line putsch actually succeeds! Gorbachev was deposed (executed, if you want them to be really evil). Then the hardliners turn the clock back toward the Stalin era or something approaching it.

 

Does the Warsaw Pact still exist? That was pretty much disbanded in 1989, so that would have to be taken into account.

[tunglashr]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

Yes it does! Good job! It's usually translated as "herald' date='" but harbinger is close and sounds much cooler.[/quote']

 

I think Predvestnik is Harbinger, but I can find a way to work vestnik in as well. I was temporarily confused.

[tunglashr]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

You might not need any more Soviet ideas but I had to share two:

 

Molniya (Russian молния - lightning) --- Obviously an electrical based

energy projector

 

Tunguska (Russian Тунгуска - a sparsely populated region in Siberia famous

for the massive explosion that occured in the region in 1908) --- Another

energy projector with special emphasis on explosion based attacks

 

-Carl-

 

Interestingly enough I have already made Molniya as the USSR's mouthpiece Exemplar, but he isnt an energy projector, he's a speedster.

 

My idea to introduce the players to the world, besides the wiki, is to play through 2-4 sessions of one shots that detail things that happen in history. The players take the roles of historys movers and shakers and experience the events that made the world what it is today. One of these scenarios is 'Molniya Saves the Iron Curtain'.

[tunglashr]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

Also, with Exemplars of their own, the Non-Aligned Movement might really have gotten somewhere. The third-world was getting sick of being used as the Superpowers' chessboard as it was.

 

Oh, you'll also have to deal with the Afghanistan situation. Are the Soviets bogged down, or did the Red Army lose face like it did in the real world? Or did Exemplar presence result in a Soviet victory (and at what cost, to the Soviet Union, the Afghans, or the Exemplars involved?).

 

This might have been very difficult to handle except that the vast majority of Exemplars come from highly developed nations. This is a plot point I am hoping the players pick up and investigate. Something like 100 of the estimated 250 known Exemplars in the world work in the service of one nation or another, and only one African nation (Egypt) has a representative. More than 90% also come from the northern hemisphere.

[Maelstrom]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

The great nations have always acted like gangsters, and the small nations like prostitutes. -- Stanley Kubrick

 

I can see a few plots revolving around the intelligent equivalent of nuclear weapons deciding whether or not to go off. If you're an Exemplar from a non-aligned nation, are you basically like a 'driver' for a hooker?

 

What happens when the Exemplars decide they have more in common with each other than with the governments using them?

[tunglashr]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

One would have to work out what Alternative Universe Soviet Union was like. In the real world, the Gorbachev people came to power around 1985 and initiated Glasnost and Perestroika in order to liberalize the country and reduce tensions with the West. For various reasons they botched the attempt, and this led to the failed "hard-line putsch" to oust Gorbachev in 1991. The putsch was defeated and the fear of the "return of the headliners" was used by Yeltsin etc. to seize power and break up the Union.

 

So, in Alternative Universe USSR, there are three options with this:

 

1. Gorbachev succeeded: the USSR still exists, but it is a democratic and market-economy-based, non-Communist USSR. This wouldn't work because although the USSR exists, the Cold War wouldn't, presumably.

 

2. The Gorby people never came to power. Perhaps Andropov lived longer? He was a reformer too, but would probably have followed the Chinese Model , pushing through economic reforms through authoritarian means. This USSR would probably look something like contemporary China.

 

3. Probably the best option if you want a villainous USSR: The hard-line putsch actually succeeds! Gorbachev was deposed (executed, if you want them to be really evil). Then the hardliners turn the clock back toward the Stalin era or something approaching it.

 

Does the Warsaw Pact still exist? That was pretty much disbanded in 1989, so that would have to be taken into account.

 

I havent gotten this deep into the specifics of Soviet history yet, this is why this thread is so important. I can investigate the things you guys suggest and find a way to get them as part of the world.

 

The Warsaw Pact does exist, and they bring 11 Exemplars to bear (10 Russians and 1 Pole). There is also an East Asian Alliance and a Western Council (partially replacing NATO). Im still formulating who is part of what.

[CraterMaker]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

Hey Tunglashr, how's this project coming along? Alternate History games are allways a bit tricky if you're trying to get ALL the details right - my suggestion is to use a broad brush and retcon in the details as your Supers explore their world.. if only because it's so consuming to try and flesh it all out.

 

But, as I said, Alt Hist premises are allways useful to us other gamers, even if for an alt dimension game.. so how's it coming?

 

-CraterMaker

[Balabanto]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

Considering Vladimir Putin's politics right now, you might want to reconsider that statement. Russia is moving back towards Hard Line politics now.

[death tribble]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

The one model I used is that when the Soviet Union broke up several of their paranormals fled rather than work for a more capitalist society. Some became villains some remained as is ie Supreme Soviet fled to Cuba.

 

The US Govt expects its heroes to be seen but not heard particularly in light of Invictus who was caught in 1992 and imprisoned for murder. This has not prevented some of them from being radical or indeed Liberal.

 

The UN has a team of Supers known as the 17 drawn from all parts of the world. They usually do not say much politically as they stress their work is global.

[zornwil]

Re: Superhero Politics

 

The one model I used is that when the Soviet Union broke up several of their paranormals fled rather than work for a more capitalist society. Some became villains some remained as is ie Supreme Soviet fled to Cuba.

 

The US Govt expects its heroes to be seen but not heard particularly in light of Invictus who was caught in 1992 and imprisoned for murder. This has not prevented some of them from being radical or indeed Liberal.

 

The UN has a team of Supers known as the 17 drawn from all parts of the world. They usually do not say much politically as they stress their work is global.

Some of the same happened in my world's USSR. The major State Hero, Red Amazon, became a fugitive essentially. The major Batman-like vigilante, X, went from villified fugitive to tolerated/semi-accepted vigilante. Dr. Doom (who also has a Public ID) went from outlaw to the world's first superhero national leader of a major country (he was/is pro-capitalism, but also extremely nationalistic, and serves as a sort of combo of Dr. Doom as we've known him and a hyper-Putin (much more effective and more quickly rebuilding Russia's international position and internal control).