How Many U S Heros ?

[clsage]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

Oh crikey ! I think that I will go insane (or perhaps that should be MORE insane !) if I had to do THAT many characters.

 

While it's been awhile since I actually ran a campaign (sad to say )

I have been building a "background" for awhile and (in all honesty) have

been stealing and modifying npc's from both:

 

http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/index/archive.html

 

(and mucho thanks to the contributors on both sites )

 

YMMV of course.....

 

-Carl-

[Badger]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

Well, different countries would probably go different ways with supers. USA might could control them as mentioned. But, in one of the poor backwater African countries for example, that has say 10-15 million people. One super or a small group would probably set themselves up as dictators.

 

In any case with random %. China and India should have more supers. With China say maybe you could have a bunch of slightly superhuman martial artists.

[st barbara]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

Just because the characters exist doesn't mean you have to design them. The only characters you need to design are the ones the PCs will be fighting' date=' and the only characters you even need to name are the ones the PCs meet or who become particularly famous. As for the U.S. becoming more powerful, their military is already so dominant, it hardly matters.[/quote'] There is a diference between fighting against an army, whose members partisans or insurgents can (and have in the past) killed and even driven out of their countries and fighting a bunch of characters who can do things that no soldier has ever previously been capable of, and are invulnerable to any weapon that you can bring against them to boot ! I'm not doing this to actually PLAY any time soon, just as an exercise in populating a world with supers so, to satisfy my own criteria ,I DO have to detail a fairly large number of the characters.

[Trebuchet]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

There is a diference between fighting against an army' date=' whose members partisans or insurgents can (and have in the past) killed and even driven out of their countries and fighting a bunch of characters who can do things that no soldier has ever previously been capable of, and are invulnerable to any weapon that you can bring against them to boot ! I'm not doing this to actually PLAY any time soon, just as an exercise in populating a world with supers so, to satisfy my own criteria ,I DO have to detail a fairly large number of the characters.[/quote']It would only seem rational for heroes to flee dictatorships and oppressive governments and congregate in places like America and other free Westernized nations. There may be hundreds of supers in places like China who don't want to reveal their powers simply because they then would become (forced) agents of the state; whereas the relative freedom of nations like Denmark, America, or Australia would make those the logical places to flee to. Who would be better equipped to flee an oppressive regime than a metahuman? And which states would be more willing to give then sanctuary? If nothing else, it's really easy to sneak into the US and get false documents even if the government tries to prevent it.

 

There's a reason IRL the world's population voluntarily moves from oppressive to free nations when they can. It wouldn't be any different for supers. So, for instance, 20% of America's supers might be foreign-born - most of them from non-democratic nations.

[Vestnik]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

It would only seem rational for heroes to flee dictatorships and oppressive governments and congregate in places like America and other free Westernized nations. There may be hundreds of supers in places like China who don't want to reveal their powers simply because they then would become (forced) agents of the state; whereas the relative freedom of nations like Denmark' date=' America, or Australia would make those the logical places to flee to. Who would be better equipped to flee an oppressive regime than a metahuman? And which states would be more willing to give then sanctuary? If nothing else, it's[i'] really[/i] easy to sneak into the US and get false documents even if the government tries to prevent it.

 

There's a reason IRL the world's population voluntarily moves from oppressive to free nations when they can. It wouldn't be any different for supers. So, for instance, 20% of America's supers might be foreign-born - most of them from non-democratic nations.

 

Damn immigrants taking jobs from America's supers! What's the world coming to!?!?

[assault]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

Damn immigrants taking jobs from America's supers! What's the world coming to!?!?

 

The problem is that American supers just aren't willing to take on the dirty supervillain jobs.

[assault]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

fighting a bunch of characters who can do things that no soldier has ever previously been capable of' date=' and are invulnerable to any weapon that you can bring against them to boot ![/quote']

 

You probably should think more about what proportion of supers actually are invulnerable.

 

Of course, there are other ways of being effectively invulnerable than being able to bounce tank shells off your chest, but still, even amongst supers with combat effective powers, you are likely to see a fair proportion of "glass cannons". Just because you can breathe fire doesn't make you bulletproof.

[Vestnik]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

You probably should think more about what proportion of supers actually are invulnerable.

 

Of course, there are other ways of being effectively invulnerable than being able to bounce tank shells off your chest, but still, even amongst supers with combat effective powers, you are likely to see a fair proportion of "glass cannons". Just because you can breathe fire doesn't make you bulletproof.

 

Actually, I've seen few Champions characters that could stand up to modern military hardware in a straight fight.

[Trebuchet]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

Damn immigrants taking jobs from America's supers! What's the world coming to!?!?

We're a nation of immigrants. It's right on the Statue of Liberty:

 

"Send us your poor, your downtrodden, your überhuman."

[David Johnston]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

who can do things that no soldier has ever previously been capable of' date=' and are invulnerable to any weapon that you can bring against them to boot ! [/quote']

 

...not exactly how I'd describe the Fabulous Frog Man.

[SleepyDrug]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

Demographics has been a fun experiment here many times. There are many factors that go into a serious experiment. And the final of those is regardless of place of origin, Supers don't always stay put.

 

Why stay in the countryside when there is more crime and action in the city?

[st barbara]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

...not exactly how I'd describe the Fabulous Frog Man.

Now don't you go insulting "The Fabulous Frog Man" David ! Why, don't you remember his many epic battles against such fearsome foes as "Gerbil Girl" and "Pondscum" ?

[st barbara]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

Being (slightly) more serious for a moment I have finally finished my listing of U S heroes.There are seven teams of heros; one each in NewYork, Washington D C (a national team),Chicago, a team that moves along the Mississippi from New Orleans to St Louis, Denver, San Francisco and Los Angeles. Other cities have one (or sometimes more) heros New York,New Jersey,Philadelphia,Boston,Baltimore,Richmond,Memphis, Charleston, Tampa, Miami, Detroit, Minneapolis,Omaha, Kansas City,Austin, Dallas,Houston and Corpus Christi , Santa Fe, Los Vegas, San Diego, Fresno, Anahiem, Seattle, Anchorage and Honolulu. A total of 67 heros (68 if you count "Mind Titan's" mental creation as a seperate character). I am currently doing (very short) writeups on the super villains of the U S A, including turning the once heroic "Cyberknights" (minus "Heavy Duty" who is now based in Philadelphia) into a bunch of criminals !

[Kenn]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

I think the idea of an even distribution of parahumans is silly in any campaign environment includes supers who aren't accident of birth (what Marvel calls Mutants.)

 

Whatever things cause people to get powers, wherever those are concentrated, there would be more people in those locales getting powers. Places like "Silicon Valley" or the Research and Development Corridor of Chicago's west-central suburbs would have more people getting powers. Of course, that doesn't take into account people moving.

 

As far as other nations go, the thing to also recall is just how American the idea of the super hero is.

 

Using China as an example, besides what, I think it was Kevin Schultz, said about the Chinese governement killing its resident supers, I think it is also likely that any other supers would be conscripted into a special military regiment. They wouldn't have capes and tights. Just an military rank and uniform.

 

I think in a lot of countries, the notion of becoming a super-hero jsut became one gains powers, would be a very bizarre concept for the locals (more so than it is in the U.S.)

[Pariah]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

Just a thought:

 

The "one in a million" thing gives the US a potential superhuman population of around 300 high-grade metahumans. Human nature being what it is, I would probably assume that somewhere between half and two-thirds of those will be looking for money, power, and/or personal gratification with those gifts. In other words, somewhere between 100 and 150 will be superheroes, with 150-200 supervillains to fight.

 

In the campaign I'm running now, I've told the players that every major city in the US is considered to have about half as many superteams as major professsional sports franchises. NYC would have 4-5 superteams, someplace like Houston, Atlanta, or Minneapolis would have 1 or maybe 2, and smaller 'major' cities like Indianapolis, Green Bay/Milwaukee, and Salt Lake City might only have one, if any at all.

 

Oh, and there has to be a team in Vegas. Face it, supervillains would be drawn to Sin City like moths to a campfire. Someone's got to help keep the place safe.

[SleepyDrug]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

That would make the assumption that some super is willing to live in Vegas just to keep it safe. It also assumes the mob or FBI doesn't perform that role. Aside from money, Vegas has little attraction and the casinos are sure to take steps to secure their money whether that involves special technology, hiring their own supers, etc. They couldn't afford to operate if they depended on the kindness of a vigilante or local do-gooder for security.

[Kenn]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

On my campaign world, I had (until someone started a Vegas game) taken the approach that villains basicaly left Vegas alone taking the "you don't urinate in your own wheaties" approach. Whether to launder your take quickly, or to just lay low, Vegas would usually a good place to go when not committing super crime.

[Fedifensor]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

For those that have the Dragon Magazine archive on CD (it was produced several years ago), I recommend the article "One In A Million" by Roger E. Moore. I think it was issue #107.

[SleepyDrug]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

Pre-1999, I saw a version of the one in a million with modifiers. The guy who wrote it up started each country with 1 super (hero or villain) per million.

 

He then had modifiers based on various factors including:

 

mystical tradition (places like Britain or China)

mythological tradition (such as Greece, Egypt, or Norway)

tech level (USA or Israel scores high here)

religious tradition (such as Israel or Italy)

government (bonus for republics and negative for tyranny)

martial arts tradition (such as Japan or China)

 

and possibly other factors. these things than provide a +/- of up to 25% each. this gave a more "realistic" figure. China might start out with a 1000 supers but it has a government that represses rights and is a second world nation technologically (they can manufacture but have little innovation); this is balanced by a strong martial arts and mystic tradition.

[st barbara]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

That would make the assumption that some super is willing to live in Vegas just to keep it safe. It also assumes the mob or FBI doesn't perform that role. Aside from money' date=' Vegas has little attraction and the casinos are sure to take steps to secure their money whether that involves special technology, hiring their own supers, etc. They couldn't afford to operate if they depended on the kindness of a vigilante or local do-gooder for security.[/quote'] In fact I used the "hire a super to protect the gambling interests" option to place "Starburst" in Atlantic City. New Jersey (Also a gambling/casino city I think).Los Vegas' hero is a female magician named "Mystic Fire". She mainly battles mystic menaces and supervillains but leaves "the mob" alone unless they bother her friends. (I quite deliberately modelled her off "Zatanna", but dropped the "speaking backwards" bit, although she still needs an incantation to make her magic work) She works as a stage magician in the various hotels in Vegas and is very popular as a stage act, partly because people know that SOME of her act is genuine ! Oh yes, she doesn't wear fishnets but sheer black tights !

[Narratio]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

Pre-1999, I saw a version of the one in a million with modifiers. The guy who wrote it up started each country with 1 super (hero or villain) per million.

 

He then had modifiers based on various factors including:

 

mystical tradition (places like Britain or China)

mythological tradition (such as Greece, Egypt, or Norway)

tech level (USA or Israel scores high here)

religious tradition (such as Israel or Italy)

government (bonus for republics and negative for tyranny)

martial arts tradition (such as Japan or China)

 

and possibly other factors. these things than provide a +/- of up to 25% each. this gave a more "realistic" figure. China might start out with a 1000 supers but it has a government that represses rights and is a second world nation technologically (they can manufacture but have little innovation); this is balanced by a strong martial arts and mystic tradition.

Which gives places like India a potentially huge base.

 

Remember that in the non-western cultures there are accounts of wisemen, mystics, witches, demonic possession etc published every day in reputable newspapers, TV news programs etc. The question of "is it demonic possession or is it a gift from the God (insert diety here)" probably causes most powered types to become bad guys (for a given value of bad that is). Probably by claiming to be Avatars of (insert deity here).

[assault]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

Pre-1999, I saw a version of the one in a million with modifiers. The guy who wrote it up started each country with 1 super (hero or villain) per million.

 

He then had modifiers based on various factors including:

 

I came to the conclusion quite some time ago that exercises like this don't really make much sense.

 

For starters, they are inherently an exercise in cooking the data to get the results you want. As such, the "modifiers" that are applied are inevitably arbitrary. Worse, they are often based on wild-eyed stereotyping.

 

But, more to the point, why would you bother? Does it really add anything to a game to know that there are thousands of supers around, when they will never actually appear in your game?

 

Furthermore, numbers like this don't tell you anything about "Hidden Land" type populations. Essentially, it is quite possible that figures like this could underestimate superbeing numbers by 50% or more!

 

There is a more fundamental problem, though, and that is the assumption that superbeings are common enough and regularly enough distributed that statistical methods are actually useful in analysing them.

 

Frankly, I prefer to assume that that isn't the case. My worlds tend to have very small numbers of superbeings, apart from the Hidden Land populations.

 

In some of my settings, most of the "superbeings" lack inherent powers. In most cases, there are usually fewer than a hundred non-Hidden Land "supers" of whatever origin.

 

The setting I am currently fiddling about with is inspired by the very early Marvel Universe. There are (equivalents of) Atlanteans, the Moleman's subterranean lackeys, and probably the Inhumans. There are (equivalents of) Skrulls and various other aliens. Otherwise, there are a bunch of radiation accidents, minor mystics, mad scientists and gadget users. And there's probably an android and a super-soldier around somewhere too.

 

That's about it.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: How Many US Heros ?

 

That would make the assumption that some super is willing to live in Vegas just to keep it safe.

It's not exactly my favorite city either. But it is one of the fastest-growing cities in the US; doesn't seem too unlikely they could find one super who likes glitz and gaudy.

 

It also assumes the mob or FBI doesn't perform that role. Aside from money...

I think the money is kinda the point. And if the FBI (and/or PRIMUS) can protect Vegas, why not New York or LA? Why do we need superheroes at all?

 

But I do like the idea of a superhero who works for the mob to protect the casinos from "other" criminals. Talk about a conflicted character set-up!

[SleepyDrug]

Re: How Many US Heros ?

 

It's not exactly my favorite city either. But it is one of the fastest-growing cities in the US; doesn't seem too unlikely they could find one super who likes glitz and gaudy.

 

Good point. But not too many heroes, I think.

 

I think the money is kinda the point. And if the FBI (and/or PRIMUS) can protect Vegas, why not New York or LA? Why do we need superheroes at all?

 

But I do like the idea of a superhero who works for the mob to protect the casinos from "other" criminals. Talk about a conflicted character set-up!

 

From what I understand of PRIMUS, they think they can. And if you consider the "bank robbery" level villains. Guys like Blowtorch, Power Crusher, Green Dragon, and so forth....PRIMUS may be right.

 

As for the superhero for the mob. I was think more of something like Team Hammer from Marvel Comics. Second-string villains who are happy to take retainer with a strong organization that can provide them with legal and tech services.

[Mike W]

Re: How Many U S Heros ?

 

Well, theoretically, the US should have several hundred metas. If you just take the "1 in 1 Million" number for mutants, that's 300. Not counting any uncounted illegal aliens. And since the US is so technologically advanced, you can add in a large number of tech based heroes. Throw in some martial artists and a few people who have relocated from other countries(or planets or galaxies) and you can easily hit 500 or more and still have room to grow the list a lot with people who have mystic powers or powers they obtained through accidents and what not.

 

But the number of those who are active(and heroes) will be less than that. I usually have 30-50 that I keep track of regularly. I have a few others in an "as needed" file to be used for contacts, plot devices and what not. The rest are just "out there somewhere". I tend to keep the numbers of teams small. Partly due to being a comic book guy. I mean, if you look at Marvel, the Kings of Team Books. How many teams do they actually have? Well, you have X-men, Avengers, Fantastic Four. And that's about it. There have been a lot of other US based teams(Defenders, X-Factor, X-Force, New Warriors, Midnight Sons, Champions of LA, Thunderbolts) but by and large, not more than one or two others at a time, and given that FF are explorers as much as superheros(and half the time aren't even on planet it seems like), that gives you about 3-4 prominent super teams at a time - and that's about right. So I put one in New York, one out west someplace(usually Los Angeles or Denver). I have a third team that kind of roams the country in general. And the players make four.

 

After that, for every "team" hero, I add one independent hero; that usually gives me around 40 heroes when the players set down to do character creation(3 teams of 6-7 and around 20 independents). It also leaves me a couple open slots to add people as I need them either for plot devices or to fit into the PCs backgrounds.