Force Wall that doesn't fall down?

[Yamo]

Here's the concept: It's a force wall, but when it's breached, the remainder of the attack (after the wall's defenses are applied) makes it through, but the hole in the wall instantly "heals" and the wall as a whole doesn't go away.

 

How to?

[Captain Obvious]

Force Field doesn't go down when you overcome its defensive value. How about Force Field, Area Effect?

[Killer Shrike]

You arent supposed to apply AoE to FF.

 

Personally, the total collapse of FW is a big pet peeve of mine, which causes me to avoid FW in general unless no other power will do.

 

I recommend trying to build it as an ENTANGLE barrier. Entangle doesnt automatically go away if one of its squares is breached. Also, a Continuous Entangle will heal its body back each Phase making it durable.

[Snarf]

Maybe a trigger so it automatically reactivates?

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Snarf

Maybe a trigger so it automatically reactivates?

Technically you have to keep reseting the Trigger, so its the same end result.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Technically you have to keep reseting the Trigger, so its the same end result.

Well there is always the Trigger Resets Automatically optional rule for Digital Hero #11, but that makes the cost +1/2 more; and, as we both stated in the other thread, Force Wall is already an expensive power.

[DigitalGolem]

All your force wall are belong to us!

 

I am probably gonna pay, big time, for posting this, but here it is;

 

Buy force wall twice, with deactivation of each one acting as the "trigger" for the other. Or if it's for a vehicle, just pay the 5pts and you've got back-up systems for all your force walls.

 

DGv3.0 Dives for cover...!!!

[TheEmerged]

Time to prove my rule geek tendencies.

 

I used Summon as the mechanic for the time I wanted to build something like this for a Fantasy campaign under 4th Edition. Basically, I summoned an immobile character that had high rDef for the campaign, Takes No Stun, Regeneration, and enough Growth for the size I wanted.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by TheEmerged

Time to prove my rule geek tendencies.

 

I used Summon as the mechanic for the time I wanted to build something like this for a Fantasy campaign under 4th Edition. Basically, I summoned an immobile character that had high rDef for the campaign, Takes No Stun, Regeneration, and enough Growth for the size I wanted.

Summon Wall. Hmm....Sounds like MTG

 

Not a bad idea actually, but is definitely well into GMs permission land......

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Summon Wall. Hmm....Sounds like MTG

 

Not a bad idea actually, but is definitely well into GMs permission land......

 

Not to pick, but how is it "well into GM's permission land" to summon a big person (that happens to have regenerative powers) that lays down and doesn't move?

 

And the spell's name was "Wall of Rabbits", and predates M:TG by at least four years

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Monolith

Well there is always the Trigger Resets Automatically optional rule for Digital Hero #11, but that makes the cost +1/2 more; and, as we both stated in the other thread, Force Wall is already an expensive power.

 

Well, Trigger is the way that Steve Long suggests building this effect in the FAQ on Force Wall, so I guess Monolith's suggestion is as close to "official" as we'll get at this point.

[Kristopher]

This is one of those cases in which a specific Advantage would be nice.

[Snarf]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Technically you have to keep reseting the Trigger, so its the same end result.

Ack, I guess a normal trigger wouldn't work.

 

It says here that if the GM allows, a player can set a trigger multiple times. Although this is mainly intended for powers with foci or charges, maybe the GM would allow a couple of force fields to be prepared beforehand. Or maybe the power could be bought with a bunch of charges. Or maybe, if you're real convincing, the GM might rule based on this feature of trigger that the force field could remain up as a +1/2 advantage.

 

That self resetting trigger sounds good to me. I think it's just a really powerful ability that has to be expensive.

[BobGreenwade]

How about Entangle, 1 BODY, Only To Form Barriers, Costs END To Maintain?

[SleepyDrug]

If it were my game, i'd permit this to be bought as an Advantage onto the Force Wall.

 

Body Stat (+ 1/2)

 

The character's Force Wall has a Body Stat. Damage that passes through the DEF of the Wall will create an opening relative to the amount of BOD inflicted. An attack that inflicts half the BOD of the wall will destroy half the wall.

 

For example, Pulsar pushes and blasts Solitaire's Force Wall (10 PD, 10 ED, 10 Bod) and does 15 BOD. Half of Solitaire's wall collapses.

 

The Force Wall has 1 Body for every 2 points of DEF.

 

Comments?

[Lord Liaden]

Well, SD, if you want to start creating barriers with a Body stat, I'd say that Bob Greenwade's suggestion of an Entangle Only for Barriers that Costs END would be the least expensive way to go, especially since you can adjust the DEF to BODY ratio to suit your concept. If you build the barrier to cover multiple hexes, then an attack on part of it should just destroy the Entangle in that hex - unless I'm mistaken about how AoE Entangles work.

[austenandrews]

Originally posted by TheEmerged

I used Summon as the mechanic for the time I wanted to build something like this for a Fantasy campaign under 4th Edition. Basically, I summoned an immobile character that had high rDef for the campaign, Takes No Stun, Regeneration, and enough Growth for the size I wanted.

 

Holy guacamole! That's the most twisted bit of munchkinry I've seen since Aaron Allston's "Summon Self From Underworld, Trigger: Death" construct.

 

I don't have the rules in front of me, but my first thought would be to buy Continuous on the Force Wall. I know it's redundant, but as a GM I would rule that it automatically reactivates every Phase.

 

-AA

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by austenandrews

I don't have the rules in front of me, but my first thought would be to buy Continuous on the Force Wall. I know it's redundant, but as a GM I would rule that it automatically reactivates every Phase.

 

-AA

 

I had a similar thought, but I'd go with Uncontrolled instead. In that case you'd have to define a different way to stop the Uncontrolled Power besides just breaking down the Force Wall.

[Tech]

Years ago, I created a heroine with a ForceWall that didn't go down after being breached. We came up with a +1/2 Advantage on it. I guess we were correct. Having used it in games, I don't find +1/2 as being too expensive and it works well, rather than summoning walls or triggers.

[Agent X]

If you go with the entangle idea wouldn't you have to buy something like tk to move the force wall?

[Vondy]

I think there are better ideas that have been presented than this one, but for the sake of thinking outside the box, what about not using force wall at all. What about an EC with two powers in it:

 

1) missile deflection, all, ranged, uncontrolled, obscene deflection bonus

2) telekinesis, ae line, uncontrolled, only to stop things from passing

 

Theoretically it would be appropriate to apply the limitation "must use powers concurrently" and "powers must cover the same area" to the EC. Various reduced endurance advantages would prove useful if the points were there.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

I had a similar thought, but I'd go with Uncontrolled instead. In that case you'd have to define a different way to stop the Uncontrolled Power besides just breaking down the Force Wall.

Ditto. But keep in mind that a Force Wall is still not sectional, and you still cant bring back up in the same Phase it went down. So its still an all-or-nothing, not a "breach".

 

Under the old rules I wrote up a custom Power called "Physical Wall" because Ive always disliked the total-collapse Force Wall and the lurpy Entangle-Wall. It basically accounted for breaches rather than total collapse, and had a number of adders, including a big fat one that would let you use it to create buildings in varying degrees of detail.

 

 

The Object Creation power from DH 7 by none other than Steve himself fills that niche now, and I recommend its use for those who have DH 7. For those that dont, I recommend getting DH 7 and then refer back to recommendation #1

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Agent X

If you go with the entangle idea wouldn't you have to buy something like tk to move the force wall?

 

If you have to pay END to maintain the Entangle wall, it should collapse/disappear when you stop paying END. After that you'd just target the new wall at a new location, just like a standard Force Wall.

[Blue Angel]

DH10 page 43 lists an optional rigid advantage for forcefields and armor. It is intended for use with incomplete characters but does not state it is only limited to them. The rigid advantage blocks stun completely if no body gets through. It has two levels: +1 for defences that get knocked down if the body exceeds them (like force wall does) and +2 for defences that do not get knocked down if the body exceeds them. This appears to make 'does not get knocked down' a +1 advantage but we can only guess if that has the same application to forcewall. Considering force wall is already so expensive and includes the +1 level of rigid a +1/2 sounds about right.

[BobGreenwade]

For the problem of moving an Entangle-generated barrier, how about importing the Mobile Perception Point Adder for Clairsentience (USPD page 164)? For +5 points, the character can move the Entangle 6" per Phase, x2 velocity per +5 points.

 

Naaah. I'd rather use Telekinesis (that is, if there was a good guideline for figuring out how much the Entangle-generated barrier weighs).