Improved Critical

[Armitage]

I'm gearing up for a thrown-together Fantasy Hero game with some friends, converting the Shackled City adventure path to FH.

I've done a bunch of D&D 3.5 to FH material for the players, mostly using Killer Shrike's material, but I've had some thoughts on converting the Improved Critical feat.

 

1. Penalty Skill Levels vs. Hit Location.

 

The character is more likely to hit a vital area and do more damage if they try, but there will still be penalties and it will affect every attack. You then also have players always "trying for a critical hit" instead of being excited because they "got a critical hit".

 

2. Find Weakness 11- with Single Attack, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; Making an attack; +3/4) (17 Active Points); Instant (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4). Total cost: 10 points.

 

The character gets to make a free Find Weakness roll before each attack, but its effects only last for one attack roll. It will also only work with a single weapon. This accurately recreates the original feat, but adds an extra die roll in each Phase of combat. On the other hand, "immunity to critical hits" becomes just a matter of adding Lack of Weakness.

 

Opinions?

[Manic Typist]

Re: Improved Critical

 

Hm, I'm not familiar with DnD, but it looks good. Just, what prevents it from being used every single time (regarding the second one, which I think is more likely to be unbalancing or just offfputting)?

[Tywyll]

Re: Improved Critical

 

As always, its your game, so what works best for you is the best way to go. And I'm a big fan of "and" rather than "or", so both versions could work side by side.

 

If I had to pick one though I'd lean towards option 'A'. There are several reasons for this.

 

DnD's abstract nature prevents 'called shots' from being viable (since hit points don't represent real toughness so much as a mixture of skill, quickness, and toughness). As such, wittling down hit points is actually just waring an opponent down until they slip up and you put a sword through them.

 

Hero handles that kettle of fish entirely differently. Someone who is 'better' at landing telling blows (ie has the Improved Critical feat) is better at hitting in general and hitting important places in specific. Piercing their armor really has little to do with it (as Imp Crit gives no additional ability to 'hit' in DnD terms, armor is irrelavent to it).

 

Another way you could handle it is +2 CL's (Only with Specific Weapon, Cannot be used for DCV). This allows hitting more often (which could represent a 'Crit' from the abstract hit point perspecitive in that by landing a blow you've shaved off more of their 'resource' that keeps them going), off setting targetting penalties, or increasing damage... all of which seem to fit the definition of talent the Feat is trying to represent.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Improved Critical

 

If youre using my site, have you not seen the Feat Conversion document? I map Improved Critical to:

 

IMPROVED CRITICAL

Your Character is good at jabbing foes in places that hurt.

IMPROVED CRITICAL AS FIND WEAKNESS

Time To Get Stabby!: Find Weakness 11- with Single Attack

Real Cost: 10 Points

 

 

As far as using PSL's vs hit locations, I have found this to be tremendously abusive and overpowering, but YMMV.

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Improved Critical

 

You could use the "Critical Hits" optional rule then have the character buy 5-point CSLs in HtH (or ranged) with the limitations "Only to improve OCV" and "Only to increase the value to roll under to score a critical hit". I think that about does it.

[Armitage]

Re: Improved Critical

 

If youre using my site' date=' have you not seen the Feat Conversion document? I map Improved Critical to:

 

IMPROVED CRITICAL

Your Character is good at jabbing foes in places that hurt.

IMPROVED CRITICAL AS FIND WEAKNESS

Time To Get Stabby!: Find Weakness 11- with Single Attack

Real Cost: 10 Points

 

I saw it. My problem was that once you make the roll, you get the bonus with every attack against the target for the rest of the combat, which doesn't seem to me to match the feel of the original feat. That's why I added Trigger, Nonpersistent and Instant.

 

You could use the "Critical Hits" optional rule then have the character buy 5-point CSLs in HtH (or ranged) with the limitations "Only to improve OCV" and "Only to increase the value to roll under to score a critical hit". I think that about does it.

 

That's what I was originally going to use, but then I had second thoughts about dragging in extra optional rules with players who haven't played Hero System since 4th Edition was in print.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Improved Critical

 

This is how Susano devised it for his Feats for Hero webpage:

 

8 Improved Weapon Critical: Weapon Crits on half of normal to hit roll (10 Active Points); (only for one chosen weapon; -1/4)

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Improved Critical

 

I saw it. My problem was that once you make the roll, you get the bonus with every attack against the target for the rest of the combat, which doesn't seem to me to match the feel of the original feat. That's why I added Trigger, Nonpersistent and Instant.

 

Eh...thats how FW works in the HERO System. Its better than in D&D, why not take advantage of it.

 

If you really suffer from a need to be slavishly parallel, you can take a form of deadly blow defined as weapon of choice, when attack roll made by 4 or more.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Improved Critical

 

I do like your approach, however. It nicely touches on the idea of "Ha! I exploited that weakness! Now, however, he'll be on his guard for that. I need to find another way through his defenses...."

[mattingly]

Re: Improved Critical

 

I've done it as +1 STUN Multiplier for up to a 2d6 HKA; Activation Roll 8-

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Improved Critical

 

I like the second option

 

2. Find Weakness 11- with Single Attack' date=' Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; Making an attack; +3/4) (17 Active Points); Instant (-1/2), Nonpersistent (-1/4). Total cost: 10 points.[/i']

 

The character gets to make a free Find Weakness roll before each attack, but its effects only last for one attack roll. It will also only work with a single weapon. This accurately recreates the original feat, but adds an extra die roll in each Phase of combat. On the other hand, "immunity to critical hits" becomes just a matter of adding Lack of Weakness.

 

If you use Susano's shorthand of using hits that get 4 lower than required get a free find weakness then you also eliminate the need for an extra roll.

 

After all an 11- means that it would work 62.5% of the time, so over 60% of attacks would benefit from the find weakness ability.

 

If you use the "to hit value - 4" as the measure of success then:

• if you need 8- to hit about 1 in 12 of your attacks will get a free find weakness
  
• if you need 11- to hit about 1 in 4 of your attacks will get a free find weakness
  
• if you need 14- to hit about 1 in 2 of your attacks will get a free find weakness
  

It isn't as consistent as the D&D style but it makes more sense in that the greater your skill relative to your opponent the greater the chance that one of your attacks will find a weak spot in their defences.

 

 

Doc

[Manic Typist]

Re: Improved Critical

 

I'd recommend dropping to an 8- value. To me, it would make it feel more special... more critical. Unless you want critical hits OVER half the time.

[Frenchman]

Re: Improved Critical

 

It all depends on how you do critical hits in your game. Since Hero doesn't have any official way of doing it, then its up to us to decide how. The most used one I've seen is the 1/2 roll, and if thats what you use then Erkenfresh's idea is probably the most suited for you.

You could also buy it as a form of deadly blow - only when OCV roll succeeds by X or more.

Or you could just buy it as extra STR or damage with a really low activation roll (say, 6-) and linked to another attack. Then just use the OCV roll as the activation roll - anytime you roll 6 or below, you do extra damage.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Improved Critical

 

So exactly what does "Improved Critical" give you in DnD?

 

It increases the chance of obtaining a Critical Hit.

 

Thus for Fantasy Hero I would simulate it via 5pt Combat Skill Levels with a -1 limition "Only for obtaining Critical Hits". Thus 5pts per +1 to the critical range.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Improved Critical

 

In my recent DH article I mapped a similar effect as:

 

Critical Strike

A character with this talent is able to make truly deadly attacks with his weapon. When he makes a hit roll by more than half, he does an extra 1d6 Killing damage. This is considered base damage, but can not be added to. The half in this case is rounded down, not in the character's favor, unlike most other roundings.

 

Critical Strike Cost 5 bought as Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand +1d6 , Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (22 Active Points); Only if hit roll is made by half (-2), Restrainable (-1/2) No STR mods (-1/2)

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Improved Critical

 

So exactly what does "Improved Critical" give you in DnD?

 

Basically if you roll well to hit, you have a chance of doing extra damage.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Improved Critical

 

Basically if you roll well to hit' date=' you have a chance of doing extra damage.[/quote']

 

I thought it doubled the "Critical Hit Range" for the characters attacks. For example, if the Longsword crits on 19 or 20, buying Improved Critical increases the crit range to 17-20 (or 20% chance instead of 10%)

 

In which case, a Hero equivalent can be something as simple as +OCV only for achieving a Critical Hit (I consider it a -1 Limitation, since Criticals happen so rarely)

 

If it does indeed increase damage, then Extra DC on a Critical hit would be appropriate. I would also still consider allowing Maximum Damage on the critical hit. The Extra DC's would simply increase the Max Damage result. (example, on a Longsword capable of doing 1D6+1K, under normal circumstances, a critical does 7 Body damage. With Improved Critical +2DC (only for increasing critical hit damage -1: 5pts) maximum Body damage increases to 12 Body for 6DC.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Improved Critical

 

I thought it doubled the "Critical Hit Range" for the characters attacks. For example' date=' if the Longsword crits on 19 or 20, buying Improved Critical increases the crit range to 17-20 (or 20% chance instead of 10%)[/quote']

 

I was thinking he was asking for what a crit was... I shouldn't post while asleep.

 

Yeah. It increases the crit chance. Been too long since I looked at feats. *sigh*

 

I have a player in my FH game who has that extra OCV only for figuring if a hit was by half for critical damage. I pretty much handled it the way you suggested.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Improved Critical

 

Has anyone tried to create a thread for Feats/Talents that would fit into any type of Fantasy Hero campaign?

 

Thats something we should definately work on. I could see it getting as big or bigger than the Magic Items thread.

 

My first contributions would be:

 

Improved Critical: +2 OCV "Only to improve Critical Hit range" (-1) 5pts.

This Talent increases a characters Critical Hit range in campaigns where the Critical Hit optional rules are being used. In order to achieve a Critical Hit, a character must roll half or less the target number needed to hit, for example, a character who needed a 14 or less to hit his opponent would achieve a critical hit on a 7 or less. Improved Critical Hit increases the threat range. Add the bonus to the full OCV only to determine the Crit range. For example, the above character with a Improved Critical talent of +2 would have an effective 16 or less for determining Crits, which increases the Critical threshold to 8 or less. It is recommended no more than 3 "levels" (or +6 OCV) be purchased for game balance reasons.

 

Enhanced Critical: +1DC "Only to increase damage of a Critical Hit" (-1) 2.5pts.

This Talent can turn already dangerous Critical Hits into deadly blows. Its is for use in campaigns where the Critical Hit rules are in use. Whenever the character achieves a Critical Hit, the Extra Damage Classes are added to the final damage result which increases the maximum damage result. For example; A character using a Longsword (4DC's) with a STR of 17 (+1DC) using a Martial Strike maneuver (another +1DC) for a total of 2D6K damage (6DC's) would normally do 12 Body damage on a Critical Hit, however with Enhanced Critical +2DC's that would increase to 2 1/2D6K (8DC's) or a total of 15 Body damage!

Note that Enhanced Critical is over and above normal DC maximums. (although it should only stack with other damage adding talents like Deadly Blow with GM's permission)

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Improved Critical

 

Well not to toot my own horn (but I will anyway) - In Digital HERO 41 there is an article with over three dozen feats for any FH games, penned by yours truly.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Improved Critical

 

I just thought of a new way to do the old-skool Thieve's Backstab.

 

Backstab: +10 OCV (50) Only for increasing Critical Hit range (-1) Only when attacking from complete surprise (-1) OIF Any weapon (-1/2) 14pts.

This Talent assosciated with Sneak Thieves and members of the Assasin's Guild. When they can approach their intended target unawaress, they can strike with deadly precision and almost always kill their victim. This awsome talent adds +5 to the Critical Threat Range...a character that has a 14 or less to hit normally would have a Crit range of 7 or less, but with this Talent that would increase to a healthy 12 or less! This Talent stacks with other Damage Enhancing talents such as Enhanced Critical and Deadly Blow which makes assasins very deadly opponents.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Improved Critical

 

To quote Savinien: "Don't try and play D&D using HERO. Play HERO."

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Improved Critical

 

To quote Savinien: "Don't try and play D&D using HERO. Play HERO."

 

I agree, in general.

 

But...

 

HERO is flexible enough that you can build and incorporate elements you like from D&D (or other FRPGS) into FH and still be playing HERO. I have a bunch of package deals, races and talents (from feats and class abilities) taken from D&D, because I like the style, tone and feel of them; sometimes down to mechanics. My Magic system feels very Rolemaster-ish.

 

Soft of think of the coverted things like Fantasy condiments, it enhances the flavor of the game in a way you want it to be.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Improved Critical

 

To quote Savinien: "Don't try and play D&D using HERO. Play HERO."

 

 

Thats the beauty of HERO. HERO does D&D better than D&D does!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Improved Critical

 

To quote Savinien: "Don't try and play D&D using HERO. Play HERO."

 

I agree, in general.

 

But...

 

HERO is flexible enough that you can build and incorporate elements you like from D&D (or other FRPGS) into FH and still be playing HERO. I have a bunch of package deals, races and talents (from feats and class abilities) taken from D&D, because I like the style, tone and feel of them; sometimes down to mechanics. My Magic system feels very Rolemaster-ish.

 

Soft of think of the coverted things like Fantasy condiments, it enhances the flavor of the game in a way you want it to be.

 

To me, this comes back to not trying to capture the mechanic of D&D (or whatever other game), but the feel. A character with Improved Critical should have a better chance than other characters of striking a truly telling blow. Whether it happens with the same frequency as a D&D critical, or even uses a "critical hit" mechanic isn't the issue. A variant on the Deadly Blow talent (perhaps working only if you hit with a roll of half or less) would work. If your game already has a critical hit mechanic, some extra levels only to enhance the likelihood of a critical hit seems perfectly suitable.