Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

[OddHat]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

Thinking about it again briefly, headache and all, I'm not sure what you're looking for where counterpoints are concerned.

 

Silver Age comics presented near infinite possibilities, finally bringing together comic book universes in a wild mish-mash where high science fiction, high fantasy, war stories, detective tales, westerns, monster stories, goofy comedy and serious drama all played out together. They were kid friendly and kid oriented, with mostly simple and sometimes intentionally absurdly silly plots, but they were the worlds of the Legion of Superheroes, the Green Lantern Corps, the Justice League, Doctor Strange, the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, Spiderman, etc, etc. They were mad and gorgeous playgrounds of the imagination.

 

Sure there was some crap writing, but so what? Every era has crap writing.

 

Iron Age comics gave us adult explorations of the themes and ideas that formed the core of Silver Age storytelling. Watchmen, Dark Knight, Marvelman/Miracleman, the entire Vertigo line, some great comic book storytelling has come out of the Iron Age. Harder science fiction, grittier fantasy, a focus shift to an older audience, the Iron Age brings a hell of a lot to the table.

 

Again, there was plenty of crap writing, but so what? Sturgeon's Law is always with us.

 

Not meant as a rant, and not pithy.

 

Oh well.

[OddHat]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

Thinking about tropes by comic book age:

 

Golden Age Ape City - The Apes are still pretty ape-like, but may wear clothes and have Tonto style "primitive" speech. Any super technology lying around is a relic of a lost civilization. Blond human Jungle Queens or Kings are likely, as are Nazis.

 

Silver Age Ape City - The Apes are now super-intelligent, with insanely advanced technology that they don't seem to do much with beyond keeping their city hidden. The Apes speak English as well as anyone else in the comic, are good and benevolent, are ruled by a Science Council or similarly futuristic form of poorly thought out government, and have one criminal who constantly tries to conquer the world. Probably no Nazis or human Jungle Royalty.

 

Bronze Age Ape City - The Apes now have some competing factions within their society, are angry at the outside world for its mistreatment of Apes, and can occasionally be talked into launching wars against Humanity that are always settled without millions of humans or the Apes being wiped out. Luckily for humans, the Super Ape Technology has been downgraded.

 

Iron Age Ape City - The Apes are back to looking more apelike and suffer a loss of some verbal skills. They gain an origin involving secret government projects and/or Nazis. Their technology is no longer much better than anyone else's, which is good, as they now hate Humans. Their government is probably a parody of the American or British political systems.

[Kenn]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

Dang. I need to spread some Rep around before I can Rep OddHat again.

 

I like ape cities...

[Balabanto]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

Amazingly, my game world has no ape city. Nor do I intend to add one.

 

Much as I would LOVE to write one in, I would have to explain why no one has discovered it until now.

[OddHat]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

Amazingly, my game world has no ape city. Nor do I intend to add one.

 

Much as I would LOVE to write one in, I would have to explain why no one has discovered it until now.

 

The Apes have a Super Ape Technology Invisibility Shield to protect their city from discovery. Despite this, the city itself has been discovered many times over the millennia, most recently by the famed Doc Science, but reports have been dismissed as fantasy by the scientific community and have never come to the attention of the Player Characters. Some government officials in Africa also know of the city, but these officials are members of an ancient Ape worshiping cult and carefully conceal the cities existence while acting to serve their Ape masters.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

Familiarity relates to how ordinary people live and view the world. Strangeness refers to the actual physics of the world. The Bewitched world is very familiar' date=' but magic can do pretty much anything the writers feel like at the moment, giving it a Familiarity orf 1 or 2 but a Strangeness of 4. [/quote']

OK, that makes better sense. Strangeness then almost sounds like Power Level. If real world physics are in effect when magic (or mutant superpowers, or alien rubbertech, or whatever) isn't involved, then isn't it just a question of how powerful/versatile magic (see above) is?

 

Thinking about it again briefly' date=' headache and all, I'm not sure what you're looking for where counterpoints are concerned. [/quote']

Actually, I think you covered it pretty well, and the Ape City examples are great.

 

Dang. I need to spread some Rep around before I can Rep OddHat again.

Ditto. Anyone..anyone...Bueller?

[OddHat]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

OK' date=' that makes better sense. Strangeness then almost sounds like Power Level. If real world physics are in effect when magic (or mutant superpowers, or alien rubbertech, or whatever) [i']isn't[/i] involved, then isn't it just a question of how powerful/versatile magic (see above) is?

 

Hm. Fair point. I think the key difference between Strangeness and Power Level is that some pretty wide spread and massive exceptions to physical laws can occur without making more power available to PCs. John Carter's world allows for Astral Projection, communication-only Telepathy, life supporting environments on Mars and Venus (and probably other worlds in the solar system I can't remember right now), the evolution of egg laying humans (that can interbreed with Earth humans) on a world where six limbs seems to be the biological norm, and much else that from a physics point of view is wildly Strange, yet the actual power level of the characters in the stories isn't much beyond that of any other period SF series.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

John Carter's world allows for life supporting environments on Mars and Venus (and probably other worlds in the solar system I can't remember right now)' date=' [/quote']

 

Yep. He went to Jupiter in one of the later books (can't recall offhand which), where he found himself even stronger and faster than on Mars*!

 

Bill.

(*Because Jupiter's rotation is so much faster, its gravity is considerably less even than Mars'!)

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

Hm. Fair point. I think the key difference between Strangeness and Power Level is that some pretty wide spread and massive exceptions to physical laws can occur without making more power available to PCs. John Carter's world allows for Astral Projection' date=' communication-only Telepathy, life supporting environments on Mars and Venus (and probably other worlds in the solar system I can't remember right now), the evolution of egg laying humans (that can interbreed with Earth humans) on a world where six limbs seems to be the biological norm, and much else that from a physics point of view is wildly Strange, yet the actual power level of the characters in the stories isn't much beyond that of any other period SF series.[/quote']

Yeah, I see your point. I wasn't thinking of PC power level, but that's the obvious thing most gamers would probably think of when they hear the term. I dunno... how about Magical-ness or something?

 

Yep. He went to Jupiter in one of the later books (can't recall offhand which), where he found himself even stronger and faster than on Mars*!

 

Bill.

(*Because Jupiter's rotation is so much faster, its gravity is considerably less even than Mars'!)

[sound of hand smacking forhead] I had forgotten that one!

[Silbeg]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

I think so too. Like I said' date=' I have no problem with a contrast character. I just get a little frustrated when someone takes CvK: Total, and then gets upset when he can't kill people. [/quote']

 

I know what you mean, here.

 

I have one player who always wants to be able to kill, regardless of what his character would want. In fact, he tends to bitch when he has to pull his punches, etc... but that is another story.

 

I do see my campaign as being somewhere in the bronze age. Probably early bronze age, but with some twists. I have "implemented' the Federal Paranormal Control Agency (sort of a CCA for supers!), which by the time of the campaign, has become a combination of a registration bureau, and a replacement for PRIMUS in my game. Of course, mostly, it was an excuse for me to be able to sanction hero teams

1

[John Desmarais]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

Thinking about tropes by comic book age:

 

Golden Age Ape City - The Apes are still pretty ape-like, but may wear clothes and have Tonto style "primitive" speech. Any super technology lying around is a relic of a lost civilization. Blond human Jungle Queens or Kings are likely, as are Nazis.

 

Silver Age Ape City - The Apes are now super-intelligent, with insanely advanced technology that they don't seem to do much with beyond keeping their city hidden. The Apes speak English as well as anyone else in the comic, are good and benevolent, are ruled by a Science Council or similarly futuristic form of poorly thought out government, and have one criminal who constantly tries to conquer the world. Probably no Nazis or human Jungle Royalty.

 

Bronze Age Ape City - The Apes now have some competing factions within their society, are angry at the outside world for its mistreatment of Apes, and can occasionally be talked into launching wars against Humanity that are always settled without millions of humans or the Apes being wiped out. Luckily for humans, the Super Ape Technology has been downgraded.

 

Iron Age Ape City - The Apes are back to looking more apelike and suffer a loss of some verbal skills. They gain an origin involving secret government projects and/or Nazis. Their technology is no longer much better than anyone else's, which is good, as they now hate Humans. Their government is probably a parody of the American or British political systems.

 

Well, hell! Now I have to include an Ape city in my campaign world.

[Dr. Shiny]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

So, I take it this means no one here agrees with me that the fad element is the defining part of the Bronze Age? I mean, comic writers always seem to overhype the social awareness of Bronze age comics but political correctness was really a fad of its own in the 70s. Most of the other innovations found in Bronze age comic writing seems to come trom the introduction of new genres into mainstream comics such as horror, martial arts, blaxploitation etc., and these are also fads.

 

Even the best cosmic hero of the early 70s was a fad hero, the Silver Surfer. Its right there in the name, he is a surfer and he has a board. Meanwhile, i cant think of a single element of popular culture in the 60s that could be considered an obvious influence on characters such as Spider-Man or the Hulk. Now add in the excessive discofication of costumes in the 70s and my case should seem fairly solid.

 

(Everyone, please don't take this as an insult to your taste or to the Bronze age. It's one of my favorite periods in superhero comics.)

[assault]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

Even the best cosmic hero of the early 70s was a fad hero' date=' the Silver Surfer. Its right there in the name, he is a surfer and he has a board. [/quote']

 

The Silver Surfer first appeared in Fantastic Four #48, in 1966. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Surfer

 

Meanwhile, i cant think of a single element of popular culture in the 60s that could be considered an obvious influence on characters such as Spider-Man or the Hulk.

 

Keep thinking. A radioactive monster who fights communists must have been influenced by some elements of popular culture, surely...

[Dr. Shiny]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

The Silver Surfer first appeared in Fantastic Four #48' date=' in 1966. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Surfer [/quote']

 

Huh, i could have sworn i read that was later. Thanks for the correction. However, fad characters existing prior to the Bronze age does not disprove my point about fads being the defining part of the Bronze age, or at least a much bigger part than people give them credit for.

 

Keep thinking. A radioactive monster who fights communists must have been influenced by some elements of popular culture' date=' surely...[/quote']

 

The sci-fi element, the Atomic element and the communist element all lasted several decades. Hardly fads...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

So, I take it this means no one here agrees with me that the fad element is the defining part of the Bronze Age? I mean, comic writers always seem to overhype the social awareness of Bronze age comics but political correctness was really a fad of its own in the 70s. Most of the other innovations found in Bronze age comic writing seems to come trom the introduction of new genres into mainstream comics such as horror, martial arts, blaxploitation etc., and these are also fads.

 

Even the best cosmic hero of the early 70s was a fad hero, the Silver Surfer. Its right there in the name, he is a surfer and he has a board. Meanwhile, i cant think of a single element of popular culture in the 60s that could be considered an obvious influence on characters such as Spider-Man or the Hulk. Now add in the excessive discofication of costumes in the 70s and my case should seem fairly solid.

 

(Everyone, please don't take this as an insult to your taste or to the Bronze age. It's one of my favorite periods in superhero comics.)

 

You mean like the All American Farmboy (Superman)

 

perhaps the guy who goes around beating up Nazi's and Communists as a pure representation of American Interests (Captain America).

 

The Hulk - underlining a still existing good old distrust of science, especially government science.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

So' date=' I take it this means no one here agrees with me that the fad element is the defining part of the Bronze Age? [/quote']

Comics are a reflection of their times, and fads have always been a part of that. I think we just notice it more with the 70s because 70s fads & fashions were so, erm...distinctive that the kitsch factor is much higher. I can read comics from the 50s and tell by the clothes what decade it is; but they don't leap off the page screaming "Look at me! I'm an Orange and yellow pantsuit with bell-bottoms and gold jewelrey! It's the 1970s! Look at me!"

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

Remember some of the get-ups they used to dress poor Diana Prince up in to try and make her look more hip? Tho this is actually from 1968 (WW#178), so technically it's Silver Age.

[OddHat]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

Remember some of the get-ups they used to dress poor Diana Prince up in to try and make her look more hip? Tho this is actually from 1968 (WW#178)' date=' so technically it's Silver Age.[/quote']

 

The current crop of goth clothes and belly shirts will look just as goofy or goofier in a few decades.

[John Desmarais]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

Remember some of the get-ups they used to dress poor Diana Prince up in to try and make her look more hip? Tho this is actually from 1968 (WW#178)' date=' so technically it's Silver Age.[/quote']

 

 

"Great honk! Blow, kid... This is my trip!"

[John Desmarais]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

The current crop of goth clothes and belly shirts will look just as goofy or goofier in a few decades.

 

For the most part, they look pretty goofy now. (Or am I just old?)

[OddHat]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

For the most part' date=' they look pretty goofy now. (Or am I just old?) [/quote']

 

I kind of like the "please look at my pelvic region" pants. When I was young, you had to date for a few weeks to get to that stage.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

The current crop of goth clothes and belly shirts will look just as goofy or goofier in a few decades.

Don't say that!

[Enforcer84]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

I kind of like the "please look at my pelvic region" pants. When I was young' date=' you had to date for a few weeks to get to that stage.[/quote']

Speaking of. I saw a girl wearing low-rider "spandex" work out shorts and a tight, zippered, jog suit top the other day. I was altogether amazed, dumbfounded, aroused, and annoyed by it.

 

anyway, what were we talking about?

[Black Rose]

Re: Campaign Tone -- explaining “Bronze Age”

 

Speaking of. I saw a girl wearing low-rider "spandex" work out shorts and a tight' date=' zippered, jog suit top the other day. I was altogether amazed, dumbfounded, aroused, and annoyed by it.[/quote']

 

OK, I can see....

 

Amazed: "I can't believe a girl would wear an outfit like that!" (take that as you will )

Dumbfounded: "Why in the name of sweet baby carrots is she wearing that?"

Aroused... do I really need to go there?

But I don't see annoyed; unless you're annoyed that someone who's obviously willing to leave the house in an all-but-painted-on outfit didn't simply take the final step and go nude.