Megascale Move(damage) question

[Wolf]

Ok, so I've got a speedster in my game, and I was wondering, because he asked, then it got us into a discussion... he's got the Movement multipower of flight only on ground for normal and megascale, that is given as an example in TUSp (I think, The Ultimate Speedster) page unknown.

 

He's got a 10" Megascaled run. If he decided to do a Move by/through on a very tough baddie, (sure during one of those, "We've got to take him down, even if it costs my life." moments) What would the damage be,

1) if he just ran for it (say 5- 15 hexes away, real hexes not megascaled)? or

2) if he ran away for a turn, and then came back at full velocities?

 

Now we understand that he'd probably be atomized by this, but the second part comes after thinking of using some sort of resistance, damage reduction, or intangibility vs. self sustained move by/through (only when doing a move by/through).

 

Now I know that would be massively wrong, and way to powerful, but the conversation went there so I was wondering what the hero community would say... I don't have my Ultimate Speedster on hand, so I don't know if it's covered... I was going to put this in the rules questions, but I thought it would be better in here.

[CourtFool]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

I do not remember off hand. I do not think Megascale increases damage. I think you still use the inches for the damage calculation whether they represent meters or gigameters. Unrealistic? Yes. Balanced? Somewhat.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

First and foremost it does what you want for your game.

 

• Minimum megascale movement where 1"=1km works out to over mach 1.
  
• A character moving at mega speeds is also considered to be moving at non-combat speed and as a result can have an OCV no higher than 0.
  
• This can not be increased in any way without GM permission.

The fight between Flash vs. Brainiac/Luthor in the animated Justice League Unlimited is one of those situations. Even Flash himself said he probably wouldn't survive doing it again.

 

Another situation that might qualify to be allowed is letting a flying/speedster/brick punch holes through the spacecraft of alien invaders using mega movement. To make it survivable for the character just limit the damage dice to the total defenses plus body that the character size hole could produce in the ship. It can then still be a huge number and might even knock out the character doing it but they at least have a chance of surviving unlike when using 100+ dice.

[Wolf]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

What I'm getting so far is that this is a bit of a "fringe" thought. Up to GM interpretation, kinda like.

I think for a point total of between 350-450 points I'd let give them both (regardless of the defenses involved) a Con roll, with some negatives for the one being hit. If they succeed they are at 1 body above death (BODY 15 = -14), and at near to negative 50-100 stun. If they fail, that is death, the misty red pop of death. However it does allow for some entrance (for any who failed) of individuals having speed zone powers. LOL, think if Doc Destroyer with a few levels of speed zone, yah, that would be a nice break into high point adventures, "Shatterzone, I thought you pulverized him?" "No, Nimbus, Look at the way he moves, he's been trapped in the speed zone this whole time... God that must have been like ages, but now he's back, and faster than me!"

LOL, I dunno if I'd allow it, but if I did this would make a hell of a repercussion.

[Doc Samson]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

I do not remember off hand. I do not think Megascale increases damage. I think you still use the inches for the damage calculation whether they represent meters or gigameters. Unrealistic? Yes. Balanced? Somewhat.

 

This always how we always handled it. You are either going to end up with a one-shotted master villain or a dead pc (or both). Either way, I don't see and upside to allowing Megascale to effect damage.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

MegaScale powers cannot be used in personal scale. H-T-H combat takes place in personal scale. Therefore, I would rule that the speedster cannot use MegaScale movement in combination with any Combat Maneuver, including Move Through. If he wants to do a Move Through, he has to slow to at least normal non-combat velocity (which will lower his OCV, but can technically be used in personal scale).

[Metaphysician]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

IMHO, best way to represent a "megascale move through" or such is with a bigass attack power, with the movement rate being a SFX. Stick whatever limits seem appropriate, and bang, your done.

[OddHat]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

Buying it as a massive attack power with the SFX "Megamove" is probably fairest, followed by allowing a Power Trick to access it once. Multiple Move Throughs while using the Enter the Speed Zone power would also look a lot like a Megascale Move By / Move Through.

 

As to the example in the Animated Justice League, I'd do that as a Power Trick using Power Skill in HERO, as a vanilla 0 OCV Non Combat Move Through would have missed Luthor-Braniac.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

I don't have the 5th revised rules, is velocity factor(VF) no longer an option?

 

Because that had pretty decent alternate velocity-based maneuver damage rules, imho. Basically, instead of a linear progression(+1 DC per 3"/5" of movement), you get a more geometric progression, based on kinetic energy(2x velocity = 4x kinetic energy, so 2x velocity = +2 DC)

 

Just a quick back of envelope note, 1 level megascale increases scale by x500, so velocity increases by x500, and kinetic energy increases by x250,000. So the added damage to a move through should be...+18 DC! Ouch. Of course, the maneuver penalties should be enormous.

[OddHat]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

Of course' date=' the maneuver penalties should be enormous.[/quote']

 

Your OCV drops automatically to 0 and can't be raised save with GM permission. Most of the time you'll only be hitting on a critical anyway.

[Outsider]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

Another reason I don't like Megascale.

 

If you allow the character to do extra damage this way, be prepared for him to try using a torpedo (run at the target with an object in hand, release it, then turn off) next time. Sure one can only do its DEF+BODY in D6 with an object of opportunity, but that just means that the time after that it will be the team brick (or a grabbed opponent) that the speedster uses as the object of opportunity..

[Trebuchet]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

I thought Megascale for movement was inherently inaccurate ("No personal Scale"), which therefor precludes using it for a Move Through anyway. Megascale also precludes using it for Move Throughs without express GM permission.

 

I might allow it for a "Save the World" situation, but the result would still be a dead hero.

[TaxiMan]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

If he hits with OCV -[infinity], then he achieves whatever effect he wants and the GM agrees to. And he's paste, goo, a smear / smudge, pancake, bug on a windshield. No resurrection, no regeneration (every cell has been atomized), game over, make a new character.

 

If you've got to use Megascale movement as an attack, that's how desperate you've got to be.

[Vondy]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

So, with the (velocity / 3) used by move-throughs rules that's +1667d6 damage.

 

After all, your sure to take down your target so you'll only take +333d6 or so yourself.

 

I say go for it!

 

Of course, you may want to apply standard effect to save time...

 

On the other hand, terminal velocity is generally capped at 30d6 IIRC.

 

Using that as a bench-mark, maybe you should do STR Damage + 30d6.

 

For a speedster without major defenses that's still going to hurt.

 

Personally, I'd only allow it in save the world situations and would probably assume "died that others might live" was the outcome.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

I thought Megascale for movement was inherently inaccurate ("No personal Scale")' date=' which therefor precludes using it for a Move Through anyway.[/quote']You are correct, sir!

[megaplayboy]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

Rule of thumb idea: calculate velocity to nearest MPH/KPH.

Base damage = +1d6 for 5mph/8 kph, and either a)straight exponential from there: +2d6 per x2 speed, so 20,000 mph = +25d6; or +1d6 per 5mph up to 150 mph( a little faster than 30" per segment), +2d6 per x2 speed after that, so 20,000 mph = +44d6

 

Accuracy in the exponential model: -2 per x2 speed, so a move-through at 20,000 mph is at -24 to OCV; or standard model up to 90"(150 mph), and -2 per x2 speed above that, so a move through at 20,000 mph is at -32 to OCV.

 

Not a big fan of the triple and quadruple digit numbers of damage dice. Yes, it's not a purely exponential system, but it isn't a purely linear one, either.

[Gemphyre]

Re: Megascale Move(damage) question

 

Ok, so I've got a speedster in my game, and I was wondering, because he asked, then it got us into a discussion... he's got the Movement multipower of flight only on ground for normal and megascale, that is given as an example in TUSp (I think, The Ultimate Speedster) page unknown.

 

He's got a 10" Megascaled run. If he decided to do a Move by/through on a very tough baddie, (sure during one of those, "We've got to take him down, even if it costs my life." moments) What would the damage be,

1) if he just ran for it (say 5- 15 hexes away, real hexes not megascaled)? or

2) if he ran away for a turn, and then came back at full velocities?

 

Now we understand that he'd probably be atomized by this, but the second part comes after thinking of using some sort of resistance, damage reduction, or intangibility vs. self sustained move by/through (only when doing a move by/through).

 

Now I know that would be massively wrong, and way to powerful, but the conversation went there so I was wondering what the hero community would say... I don't have my Ultimate Speedster on hand, so I don't know if it's covered... I was going to put this in the rules questions, but I thought it would be better in here.

 

 

A couple things that nobody has mentioned, yet.

 

For option 1, he would not be able to get to MegaScaled movement speeds. In fact, since we are talking about a Speedster, he would not even get to normal non-combat speeds. Not enough room.

 

As far as option 2, I personally think that the best option here is to enforce the time and distance it takes to get up to full speed.

 

From the rulebook:

"Acceleration and deceleration with MegaMovement is at the same rate as for normal movement, only over a larger scale. For example, MegaMovement, at the rate of 1 kilometer per hex would allow a character to accelerate or decelerate at the rate of 5 kilometers per kilometer."

 

A person with megamovement on running or flight needs A LOT of room to get up to speed, as well as a fair amount of time.

 

And, as everyone, including the rulebook, has mentioned, doing this in combat is little better than a kamikaze move, and likely ends up worthy of one hell of a funeral. The hero MIGHT get some last words, or end up as a fine mist across the state.

 

 

Mark Sebree