How to kill characters?

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

QUOTE]

 

BTW Supreme Serpent... Just had to comment because of the name, You just died in my game... A Big Bad Viper Villain teamed up with Viperia in order to kill off all of Viper's leadership and take over. Actually, I haven't completely decided if the Supreme Serpent has been killed or not. He will probably show up again in the campaign to help the players defeat said villain. Though I am not positive.

 

Occupational hazard. I killed two off myself over the course of one of my old campaigns.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Something occurs while reading the other posts. Would you allow the players to dictate how your game is to be run in other fashions?

 

"I don't want to be captured; uncapture my character or I'll quit the game"

 

"I want the build you dislike. Approve it or I'll quit the game."

 

"I want a 750 point character in your 350 point game. Allow it or I'll quit the game."

 

"You keep disarming/entangling my OAF character. Stop it or I'll quit the game."

 

How is "I don't want to make a new character for a new campaign un;less my character is killed. Do it my way or I'l quit the game" substantially different from any of the above?

[Certified]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Let me echo the idea of an epic world shaping event as this is as much about changing the feel of the game as a whole as it is offing a couple of characters.

 

A trial beyond their levels where the chance of death is very real and very much a threat to all the players no just the two players seems to be an excellent path. The event can be a lead in for your next campaign, even if they succeed the world has changed, to some extent.

 

Maybe a major political figure dies and this has global ramifications. If they fail the changes are more significant, targeted nukes go off, alien invasion all sorts of nice things have been mentioned. Inevitably deciding what the event and what leads up to this event are in your hands but again my advice is to think epic.

 

Tone, setting all sorts of things can be changed just by a small spark. You just have to sell it. Explain the long term effects of the event even if they succeed and make sure that the player's actions weather they live or die have the sense of an impact on it.

 

Also, if possible don't spring this size event on them. Give it time to build up so that when things finally happen no one is surprised by the scale of the event only the danger of it.

 

Also, before things go down consider as many of the possible outcomes for the story arc and let they players know that after the final session you may need to take a bit of time of to prep the next campaign but the show will go on.

 

I hope that helps, and meets all your criteria.

[MilkmanDan]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

The thread should probably be titled "How to ensure that these players will never game with me again."

[Manic Typist]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

D&D players, you say? How about "rocks fall from the sky. Everyone dies." With this, you can go one of two routes- the serious, "this is a reality check, show me and my game more respect" route where you are firmly but politely informing them that you will not cater to unreasonable demands.... or you could use it as a silly line to introduce the very serious comet/asteroid that is screaming through the atmosphere at them.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Thinking about the exchange, or what we know of it, from the OP.

 

I have to say - they're being childish players. Run them through bank robbery scenario after bank robbery scenario until they get the point that you'd like to change venues. Be blatant - only have six bank maps and cycle through them.

[Brother Jim]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Six banks isn't blatant enough....use one.

 

The exact same bank, at least once each game session at about noon on whatever day it is in your game. Even if it's a Sunday or a major holiday have the bank be open and very, very busy.

 

:eg:Or have them be captured by aliens....the banana headed, acid for blood, facehugger type of aliens. Their next characters can then help fight the "alienized" version of their old characters this creates.

[Captain Liberty]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Serious suggestion:

 

Have a "The Villains Strike Back" scenario.

 

Each of the heroes is attacked while alone by a potentially overwhelming force.

 

Run all the scenarios as simultaneously as possible.

 

Make sure the individual opponents/situations can kill the designated targets.

 

One possibility. The Supreme Serpent has helped the heroes do in VIPER. The heroes get a clue as to where the central core of the Supreme Serpent is and go after him, just to make sure everything Viper has been taken care of. The HQ of the SS is full of killer robots and mechanized traps, and the first thing that happens is the various heroes are separated from each other by sliding walls, collapsing floors, Walls of Force, etc.

 

I used this with a character that the player wanted to kill off, and this PC found himself with a ticking nuclear bomb. He had to defuse it, and the only way to do it was to expose himself to killer radiation, then absorb the blast in his power suit when his defusing failed. He had a glorious dying speech (the whole bomb did not go off) and essentially set up his next character in the process.

 

In another game I had the badguys (a VIPER type operation) find out the secret IDs of the heroes and catch many of them at home without all their gear. One character crippled (the player wanted to move on to another character) and two killed (purely by chance - I overmatched them accidentally). I also killed a couple of NPCs to set up new plot lines.

 

In short, divide and conquer.

[Comic]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Oh. Well if it's straight up how to kill them?

 

As ignominiously as possible. Poisoned. By their own DNPC, aided by their arch-rival or enemy. Who did it to steal their money, and because they were bored with the hero and liked the rival/enemy more.

 

Make their disads pay.

["V"]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Have them wake up as unpowered lunatics in a dreadful Victorian asylum and come to the conclusion that their lives as superheroes were just a glorious shared delusion, now cured by judicious applications of caustic enemas and cold water dowsings. Turn them out into the stinking streets of nineteenth century London and have them play through life as beggars and outcasts until they beg for a change of campaign.

[aylwin13]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Have them wake up as unpowered lunatics in a dreadful Victorian asylum and come to the conclusion that their lives as superheroes were just a glorious shared delusion' date=' now cured by judicious applications of caustic enemas and cold water dowsings. Turn them out into the stinking streets of nineteenth century London and have them play through life as beggars and outcasts until they beg for a change of campaign.[/quote']

What a great idea, "V". And best of all, they won't even have to create new characters, since the GM can keep track of what "limited" abilities they might have.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Do your individual PCs have particular nemeses or Hunteds, villains that they've repeatedly butted heads with over the years and have personal animosity with? These are just the sort of villains that the Supreme Serpent would seek to recruit to augment his own forces in a final showdown with the heroes. Your PCs could go out in a blaze of glory, taking down all their worst foes at once, at the cost of their own lives.

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

I did not actually say that I was going to make people make new characters and play a completely different campaign (Though I sort of want to as some of the newer characters are just stupid' date=' concept-wise, and the campaign itself has become boring for me.[/i'] Though taking it in a new direction may fix this.) How could I go about killing the characters I need to kill, without looking like I went out of my way to kill them? Any ideas?

 

Cardinal rule of role playing:

 

If you're not having fun, don't do it.

 

Cardinal rule of GM-ing:

 

It's your game, run it how you want it. If the players don't want to play in it, then don't invite them and find new ones.

 

Second cardinal rule of GM-ing:

 

It's your game -- so it's your fault if you let stupid characters in that ruin it. Fix the problem diplomatically, but if that doesn't work, engineer a situation and waste 'em. If your players can't handle the loss of the occasional character, they aren't worth the trouble -- so lose them.

 

Final comment:

 

Your posting makes you sound like you are desperate to have the companionship of these people. If that's the case, you should find something else to play that is less taxing for you and more fun for everyone. If that's not the case, there are plenty of other players out there -- go find better ones than you have.

 

Oh, and don't forget the magic of peer pressure -- if these stupid characters start causing grief for everyone, the others will eventually start stepping in to nip the problem in the bud.

 

Matt "The-tough-love-GM" Frisbee

[Matt Frisbee]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

I did not actually say that I was going to make people make new characters and play a completely different campaign (Though I sort of want to as some of the newer characters are just stupid' date=' concept-wise, and the campaign itself has become boring for me.[/i'] Though taking it in a new direction may fix this.) How could I go about killing the characters I need to kill, without looking like I went out of my way to kill them? Any ideas?

 

Cardinal rule of role playing:

 

If you're not having fun, don't do it.

 

Cardinal rule of GM-ing:

 

It's your game, run it how you want it. If the players don't want to play in it, then don't invite them and find new ones.

 

Second cardinal rule of GM-ing:

 

It's your game -- so it's your fault if you let stupid characters in that ruin it. Fix the problem diplomatically, but if that doesn't work, engineer a situation and waste 'em. If your players can't handle the loss of the occasional character, they aren't worth the trouble -- so lose them.

 

Final comment:

 

Your posting makes you sound like you are desperate to have the companionship of these people. If that's the case, you should find something else to play that is less taxing for you and more fun for everyone. If that's not the case, there are plenty of other players out there -- go find better ones than you have.

 

Oh, and don't forget the magic of peer pressure -- if these stupid characters start causing grief for everyone, the others will eventually start stepping in to nip the problem in the bud.

 

Matt "The-tough-love-GM" Frisbee

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

I'm tempted to be the "devil's advocate" here and say *not* to have them die in a climactic, heroic fashion. Have them shot in secret ID (assuming they are defenseless in SID) by a crazed sniper who sees them as "randomly-chosen targets #5 and 6", or subjected to an incurable disease (not targeted on them, they just happened to catch it) as part of some supervillain's mad plot, etc.

 

In other words, just kill 'em, don't reward them for their pigheadedness by setting up a "noble sacrifice." But then again, it's late but I can't sleep, so I'm tired and cranky.

 

Actually, in all seriousness, you could pull a "DOA" on them. They are poisoned with a slow-acting poison with no antidote, and have a limited time (i.e. that game session) to catch their killer before they die. Still not earth-shatteringly heroic, but at least they have an active part in stopping a homicidal maniac.

[Manic Typist]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Zombies. Lots and lots of zombies.

[Willpower]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Ah.

 

From the OP, I think I and others thought you meant you didn't want suggestions that consisted of trying to talk you out of doing it and INSTEAD and ONLY talking to your players about how you want to switch games.

 

Instead you actually just want suggestions about how to kill the characters, avoid any communication with the players about it, and have it look like an accident?

 

Ah.

 

*Exactly*

 

On a side note. I have boached this subject before simply for the sake of fun, and not actually kiling any characters, and I ALWAYS get get everybody and their dogs coming out saying how you shouldn't do it, and just to talk to your characters instead... Even when it is just a theoretical conundrum meant for fun. This was one of the reasons I started off a bit pessimistic about this thread.

[Willpower]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Let me echo the idea of an epic world shaping event as this is as much about changing the feel of the game as a whole as it is offing a couple of characters.

 

A trial beyond their levels where the chance of death is very real and very much a threat to all the players no just the two players seems to be an excellent path. The event can be a lead in for your next campaign, even if they succeed the world has changed, to some extent.

 

Maybe a major political figure dies and this has global ramifications. If they fail the changes are more significant, targeted nukes go off, alien invasion all sorts of nice things have been mentioned. Inevitably deciding what the event and what leads up to this event are in your hands but again my advice is to think epic.

 

Tone, setting all sorts of things can be changed just by a small spark. You just have to sell it. Explain the long term effects of the event even if they succeed and make sure that the player's actions weather they live or die have the sense of an impact on it.

 

Also, if possible don't spring this size event on them. Give it time to build up so that when things finally happen no one is surprised by the scale of the event only the danger of it.

 

Also, before things go down consider as many of the possible outcomes for the story arc and let they players know that after the final session you may need to take a bit of time of to prep the next campaign but the show will go on.

 

I hope that helps, and meets all your criteria.

 

Thats actually really good. Someone else suggested something similar, but I thought it was a bit beyond the scope of thiss campaign. However the more I think about it, the more it isn't. The character that is the brick of the group who used to be a big bad guy first had his accident that diminished his powers when he and a team of Viper agents and villains investigated a mysterious artifact at the bottom of the ocean. Something happened, and Boom all died but him. He was taken down from about 850 pts or more to around 350 and given the mind of a child. I never, ever considerred his character the main character of this campaign, but it could work if I used this artifact to help with something like you are suggesting.

 

Also, my first adventure with the group introduced an entity named Entropy who appeared originally as one very powerful NPC. He took on the whole group. Later they ended up running into hundreds of this Entropy. It turned out that Entropy was an insanely powerful cosmic entity. The individuals of the Earth including the PCs were merely below his level of recognition. Were would be the equivelant of microbes to him. This being they knew of as Entropy they figured out were actually just physical representations of thoughts of the actual being. Basically he was looking for his daughter, Karma, (who I mentioned earlier)who upon her creation, was somehow captured by Viper, and them having her made them unbeatable. Anyone in the outfit, literally got what they wished for. However their were some limits to these wishes, they couldn't simply wish to rule the world for instance. Basically, it allowed all agents and villains in viper to have a cosmic VPP. I could try and work this into the artifact mentioned earlier, maybe the artifact in question holds Karma's mother, contained within, and that is why when Karma came into existance she was vulnerable on Earth.

[Willpower]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

The thread should probably be titled "How to ensure that these players will never game with me again."

 

Then your not reading it. Thanks for wasting mine and everyone elses time.

[Willpower]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Thinking about the exchange, or what we know of it, from the OP.

 

I have to say - they're being childish players. Run them through bank robbery scenario after bank robbery scenario until they get the point that you'd like to change venues. Be blatant - only have six bank maps and cycle through them.

 

Well... It is not that I simply want to change venues. I do, but thats neither here nor there. The campaign itself is approaching the intended conclusion. After that it is possible that we continue the game, but the campaign itself would have to change. They could keep their characters if they want to and the team simply becomes a standard superhero team. The problem I am having is when I even approached the topic of changing to a different campaign, I got shouted at (well, as well as one can shout over email). So I am not set on changing to a different campaign once it is finished, though that is what I would like to do, since that was the original intention. Right now I am simply exploring ways to kill their characters, should I decide to change campaigns after it is done. Which, with the idea of changing the universe itself someone suggested, is looking like a more and more prominent idea.

[Willpower]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Have them wake up as unpowered lunatics in a dreadful Victorian asylum and come to the conclusion that their lives as superheroes were just a glorious shared delusion' date=' now cured by judicious applications of caustic enemas and cold water dowsings. Turn them out into the stinking streets of nineteenth century London and have them play through life as beggars and outcasts until they beg for a change of campaign.[/quote']

 

 

Hehe... Or go the Matrix route, and have them each "Wake up" in a vat of something icky then pour out into a sludge. They find out that the world isn't real and that all the "Heroes"are agents for the computer, whereas most "Villains" are trying to destroy the world to free everyone's minds from the computer. A Third type are people that work for villainous organizations, who have the nack that the world is wrong, but don't know why. They haven't been "freed" yet. The PC's fall in this category because of their association with Viper, but when they broke free of Viper, they weren't freed into the real world which is why they existed for so long as heroes that were thought to be villains.

 

Wow, that is actually pretty good.

[Willpower]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Do your individual PCs have particular nemeses or Hunteds' date=' villains that they've repeatedly butted heads with over the years and have personal animosity with? These are just the sort of villains that the Supreme Serpent would seek to recruit to augment his own forces in a final showdown with the heroes. Your PCs could go out in a blaze of glory, taking down all their worst foes at once, at the cost of their own lives.[/quote']

 

Thats a good idea, though not many have much in this fashion, since they started as villains. All are hunted by Viper, and I think one or two are actually hunted by the Champions. This are in flux right now, because the Ghost, their Xavier, managed to get one or two of them pardons, but until this point they were all wanted criminals. I was going for a Thunderbolts type campaign, with the distinction being they were all part of Viper instead of being part of a villain team.

[Willpower]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Second cardinal rule of GM-ing:

 

It's your game -- so it's your fault if you let stupid characters in that ruin it. Fix the problem diplomatically, but if that doesn't work, [bold]engineer a situation and waste 'em.[/bold] If your players can't handle the loss of the occasional character, they aren't worth the trouble -- so lose them.

 

Final comment:

 

Your posting makes you sound like you are desperate to have the companionship of these people. If that's the case, you should find something else to play that is less taxing for you and more fun for everyone. If that's not the case, there are plenty of other players out there -- go find better ones than you have.

 

Ok, I'll address these. First off, the second part of your second cardinal rule is what I am attempting to do here. That is why I made this post.

 

As for being desperate for the companionship of "these people". One of them, the less vocal, who isn't the real problem has been my friend since before high school, so it isn't as simple as you indicate. He is a friend, not someone that I roleplay with that I am hoping will be my friend... "Oh please be my friend?" What do you think I am 13? As for being desperate, no, this is a bit of a different situation that most people with a campaign, as the game night is not soley mine. The game night we have, for a long time was run mainly by another friend of mine, who currently is away for the better part of a year. So in the meantime, I have picked up my campaign again, which I ran occasionally when the first GM, who is currently gone, wasn't running. Also, I am now running this alternately with another who runs a different game, when I am not running. So it isn't like I can completely change the landscape by kicking people out and inviting new ones. Sure I don't need the one who started the problem, and that would be fine, he would simply play in one game and not in mine, but I cannot simply invite new people all the time as we then typically open up the other games being played to them as well. We don't HAVE to, it is just easier that way. (I am married, and have a kid, so I can only game once a week, so we end up sharing games.)

 

Finally, if I were to bend to your suggestion to just kick them out of the group rather than give people what they want. How would that make me a better GM. In my personal opinion, a GM doesn't just run a game, he leads it. As such, he or she has to take the feelings of their players into account. That doesn't means letting them walk all over you, but taking what they feel into account. If they are fine with things ending one way, but not another, then I do my best to try and give them what they want. That does not mean I give them 750pt characters, that does not mean I only run scenario's they personally like, though in that situation if you only ran things you liked and didn't care if anyone else had fun, you would have no players. Being a GM has a lot more give and take than some of you are giving it credit for. Trust me I've been GMing for over twenty years.

[Willpower]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

Cardinal rule of role playing:

 

Sorry, one last thing. I, as a GM, try to guide people into making better characters, but it is they themselves that make and run the characters they want to run. Aside from keeping the characters in my guidelines and trying to make sure two don't overlap too much, the rest of making characters goes to the players. Now I manage to keep things from getting silly (unless it is a silly campaign) but I try and let people play what they want. It is their characters, not mine. It just so happens that some of the concepts aren't the best. The player with the problem's concept was decent, it was basically just a martial artist, who developed into a sort of martial arts speedster. But he kept trying to throw these kind of silly asian influenced powers in. They weren't really asian influenced, which is why I call them silly. But if the player wants it, and can fit it in with their concept somewhat, and it doesn't violate my rules for the game, then it is fine for them to make the character that way. I don't run the game through martial law, and only allow characters to be made the way I, being great and powerful, would make them.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How to kill characters?

 

On a side note. I have broached this subject before simply for the sake of fun' date=' and not actually kiling any characters, and I ALWAYS get everybody and their dogs coming out saying how you shouldn't do it, and just to talk to your characters instead... Even when it is just a theoretical conundrum meant for fun. This was one of the reasons I started off a bit pessimistic about this thread.[/quote']

 

Having read back over this thread, I noticed that the majority of posts have indeed attempted to give you useful suggestions as to how to go about this. Most of the "talk to your players" advice has been specifically to find out what type of character death they'd be satisfied with. Only a few try to persuade you to take an alternate tack, and even some of those continue with "If you insist on doing this, here's what I recommend..." type advice.