ghost-angel Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things On an unrelated note' date=' I over heard someone at a gaming store say that G.U.R.P.S. was not a very solid game. They followed this up by saying Paladium was better.[/quote'] the mind boggles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things and goes numb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things My suggestion: stop worrying about how you can break the system - we've been doing that for years and years, we can do all kinds of abusive things without much thought put into it. . Oh, let him break the system. We all went through that phase. It's part of getting to know and understand Hero, and that he's going through it is a good sign that he's going be a dedicated Hero fan and stick with it. Breaking the system is something he just has to get out of his system. Lucius Alexander And the verdict is: Innocent! Feed him to the palindromedary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtFool Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things You know…that is an excellent point. When he GMs he will know what not to allow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doczed Posted June 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things Well i think many of you are wondering the reason of all of this questions. I consider myself an experienced RPG player, both on the pure RP side an on the character building one. Am i a powerplayer? Hard to tell even from myself, i do like to play 'above average' characters, but one of the thing that i hate most is to outhsine the whole party (ot to be utterly underpoweredon the other end). For other game system i have a clear idea of wich is the 'average power level', so knowing the rest of the player i can build my characters accordingly. In hero this knowlege is still 'work in progress', so here i'm triing to establish a 'this is broken, this is powerful, this is ok, this is underpowered' ezperience. I range from very low-powered games to pure munchkinism ones, and enjoy them all if the master is good and the game is intriguing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtFool Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things And people wonder why I have issues with min/maxers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things Well i think many of you are wondering the reason of all of this questions. I consider myself an experienced RPG player, both on the pure RP side an on the character building one. Am i a powerplayer? Hard to tell even from myself, i do like to play 'above average' characters, but one of the thing that i hate most is to outhsine the whole party (ot to be utterly underpoweredon the other end). For other game system i have a clear idea of wich is the 'average power level', so knowing the rest of the player i can build my characters accordingly. In hero this knowlege is still 'work in progress', so here i'm triing to establish a 'this is broken, this is powerful, this is ok, this is underpowered' ezperience. I range from very low-powered games to pure munchkinism ones, and enjoy them all if the master is good and the game is intriguing. There's one big difference with Hero though ... the "average power level" can change from game to game. 10D6 Energy Blast may be underpowered in one game, overpowered in another, just right in a third, and completely unbalancing in a fourth. While Lucius has a point about it being good to explore and see where you can poke the Hero System, it's almost impossible to say whether or not any given construct is going to be broken in a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted June 27, 2007 Report Share Posted June 27, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things There's one big difference with Hero though ... the "average power level" can change from game to game. 10D6 Energy Blast may be underpowered in one game, overpowered in another, just right in a third, and completely unbalancing in a fourth. While Lucius has a point about it being good to explore and see where you can poke the Hero System, it's almost impossible to say whether or not any given construct is going to be broken in a game. That depends. Some are definitely "broken" in the "won't do what you intended" sense. Piling up huge numbers of autofire shots is an example. Most of the shots will be wasted (Unless you're using Area Effect, which has its own problems. i.e. even then you get many shots "scatterred.") Some are definitely "broken" in the "way too much bang for the buck" sense. I suspect there are NO games where Feign Death is Usable As Attack. But there are probably a lot of constructs that would be considered "abusive" in one game, but acceptable in another. Lucius Alexander Master of the Palindromedary! (It always laughs when I say that - both ends.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loxly Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things Oh, let him break the system. We all went through that phase. It's part of getting to know and understand Hero, and that he's going through it is a good sign that he's going be a dedicated Hero fan and stick with it. Breaking the system is something he just has to get out of his system. Lucius Alexander And the verdict is: Innocent! Feed him to the palindromedary! I don't think I've ever tried to break the Hero System. I've been playing and running Hero off and on since it came out. I've pretty much seen someone else do all those things, I don't need to myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things Oh, let him break the system. We all went through that phase. It's part of getting to know and understand Hero, and that he's going through it is a good sign that he's going be a dedicated Hero fan and stick with it. For all my HERO experience, I've never tried to do that, and I've come to realize that I am a terrible min-maxer -- I just don't have the mind-set to create some of the things people have created and posted to show how "silly" you can get with the system. I'm too busy just trying to build cool and useful stuff than worry about how to blow-up the Earth on Active Points (EDM, dimension where the Earth has exploded [how's that?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbarron Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things For all my HERO experience, I've never tried to do that, and I've come to realize that I am a terrible min-maxer -- I just don't have the mind-set to create some of the things people have created and posted to show how "silly" you can get with the system. I'm too busy just trying to build cool and useful stuff than worry about how to blow-up the Earth on Active Points (EDM, dimension where the Earth has exploded [how's that?) I'm sorry, but this evidence coming to light makes me question your passion for Hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 We've all been through that phase but Loxly, and Susano, and the Palindromedary and.. I don't think I've ever tried to break the Hero System. I've been playing and running Hero off and on since it came out. I've pretty much seen someone else do all those things, I don't need to myself. Okay, we’ve all been through that phase but Loxly. For all my HERO experience, I've never tried to do that, and I've come to realize that I am a terrible min-maxer -- I just don't have the mind-set to create some of the things people have created and posted to show how "silly" you can get with the system. I'm too busy just trying to build cool and useful stuff than worry about how to blow-up the Earth on Active Points (EDM, dimension where the Earth has exploded [how's that?) Okay, we’ve all been through that phase but Loxly – Susano doesn’t count! “We’ve all” obviously doesn’t include such exalted beings! Lucius Alexander The palindromedary denies ever trying to break the Hero System, and is asking if that means it’s an “exalted being” too.....oh look, Lucius is hitting his head against the wall again and muttering something about the folly of generalizing from his own experience... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things Most every GM I've played under tells me I can't munchkin if I tried. One GM almost broke down in tears when I set out to do so on purpose. Then laughed when he saw all the "non-useful" stuff I managed to include anyways. I just can't bring myself to break character concept...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtFool Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Re: We've all been through that phase but Loxly, and Susano, and the Palindromedary a Okay, we’ve all been through that phase but Loxly – Susano doesn’t count! “We’ve all” obviously doesn’t include such exalted beings! They are just closet system breakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Goodwin Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things Most every GM I've played under tells me I can't munchkin if I tried. One GM almost broke down in tears when I set out to do so on purpose. Then laughed when he saw all the "non-useful" stuff I managed to include anyways. I just can't bring myself to break character concept...... I can in a theoretical discussion, but I can't do it on an actual character. (1 pip RKA, AoE 1 Hex, MegaScale 100,000 km, NND Does Body (Force Field), Personal Immunity, 1E+100 charges. Combine this with Blazin' Away....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted June 28, 2007 Report Share Posted June 28, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things Most every GM I've played under tells me I can't munchkin if I tried. One GM almost broke down in tears when I set out to do so on purpose. Then laughed when he saw all the "non-useful" stuff I managed to include anyways. I just can't bring myself to break character concept...... I do it with purpose, basicaly I will munchkin stuff so that I have points for stuff that will never come up For instance Costume: 10/10 Armor, Alblative: Body only, OIF, unbreakable (Armor is made of a special fiber that requires spesific chemicals to cut or break) that payid for a couple of contacts on my last character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things I do it with purpose, basicaly I will munchkin stuff so that I have points for stuff that will never come up For instance Costume: 10/10 Armor, Alblative: Body only, OIF, unbreakable (Armor is made of a special fiber that requires spesific chemicals to cut or break) that payid for a couple of contacts on my last character Wait a minute - ablative, unbreakable?? How does THAT work? Lucius Alexander And an ablative unbreakable palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted July 15, 2007 Report Share Posted July 15, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things Magic ablative armor that actually doesn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things Wait a minute - ablative, unbreakable?? How does THAT work? Lucius Alexander And an ablative unbreakable palindromedary it all comes to F/X, the armor does get damaged, it just does not follow the standard rules for foci breaking, which would be 1 point of body destroyes it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekkidcarpenter Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things And you didn't even include my favorite limitation on Armor, Visible. Or Extra Time to activate the costume. _____________________________________________________________ I used to be a Munchkin. Now I'm a Junior Member:thumbdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things And you didn't even include my favorite limitation on Armor, Visible. I don't understand "Armor, Visible" as a limitation. Maybe as a zero adder for spec effect. All powers are visible unless invisible power effects are purchased, IIRC. Which makes Armor visible by default. I am curious, how can that be a limitation for the purposes of points? If I am understanding it correctly, it would be like the Human Torch taking disadvantage points because his force field is visible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things Spense, you are operating under a false premice All powers are not inherently visible, only powers that cost END Armor does not cost END, so it is not inherently visible, thus the limitation as for why, my GM said no, same for extra time, and concentration... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things I don't understand "Armor, Visible" as a limitation. Maybe as a zero adder for spec effect. All powers are visible unless invisible power effects are purchased, IIRC. Which makes Armor visible by default. I am curious, how can that be a limitation for the purposes of points? If I am understanding it correctly, it would be like the Human Torch taking disadvantage points because his force field is visible. The special effect of Armor is Invisible by default. from 5er page 102: PERCEIVABLE SPECIAL EFFECTS Powers that normally cost END automatically have perceivable special effects when used, even if bought to 0 END (see Special Effects, above). The player decides what the Power looks like, but it must be obvious that he’s using a Power and where it comes from. Powers that inherently cost no END do not automatically have perceivable special effects. If the player wants such a Power’s special effect to be perceivable, he can buy it with the Visible Limitation or some other Limitation that implies perceivability (such as Focus). In most cases, Constant Powers that cost END are perceivable throughout their use, not just in the Segment when they’re activated. If the GM believes a Constant Power would not ordinarily be perceivable throughout its use (only when first activated and used), he might allow the character to take the Visible Limitation on the Power to make it perceivable throughout. If a character has power that inherently costs no END (such as Armor) and he applies the Costs Endurance Limitation to it, it automatically become perceivable by three Sense Groups. He cannot also take the Limitation Visible for it. If a character applies Reduced Endurance (0 END) to a power, it does not become invisible just like a power that inherently costs no END; if a character wants that effect, he has to apply the Advantage Invisible Power Effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things Spense, you are operating under a false premice All powers are not inherently visible, only powers that cost END Armor does not cost END, so it is not inherently visible, thus the limitation as for why, my GM said no, same for extra time, and concentration... The special effect of Armor is Invisible by default. from 5er page 102: Hence why I asked and used IIRC I still get tripped up by the "new stuff" ie 5th ed, and "old house rules". If I am at home I can take a quick look, but when I am away I don't have my books and so ask the question. If I don't ask while the irons hot, I'll forget Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 16, 2007 Report Share Posted July 16, 2007 Re: New to the hero system, trying to figure out some things sorry, did not mean to sound harsh, btw, it was this way in 4th, not sure about before that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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