Surviving fall from orbit

[Certified]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Combining what's been said we have:

To Survive:

LS: Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum

LS: Radiation

LS: Self Contained Breathing

rPD/rED 30

Resistant Damage Reduction for both PD and ED at 50%

 

Since the heat of reentry would more than likely last more than a single phase and could whittle down the hero before they even land I would also add something like:

 

Trigger Desolid verses Fire/Cold Only verses Environmental Effects cannot be used to pass through objects. (This may need to be purchased as 2 powers)

 

This would resolve the issues of heat from reentry without immunizing them from actual Fire or Cold based attacks.

[6-Sided_Buddha]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Something I got curious about after seeing the latest crop of comics-related sci-fi blockbusters...

 

What kind of Characteristics and Defense Powers would a character need in order to make it semi-plausible (s)he survives atmosphere re-entry and fall from orbit relatively unscathed (i.e. no significant Killing Damage) ??

 

Would people smack me if I said "One hex of Gliding"?

[Maur]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Or the character just keeps making attack actions thereby terminating their movement

[KevinL]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Ok what you looking for some one tough enough to have decent odds of surviving the fall, read unconscious but not bleeding to death or some one that will crawl out of his crater with out a scratch on the next phase?

 

Well assuming your falling from low orbit starting out side the atmosphere you would need all the appropriate life supports.

 

LS Low pressure- dont mater how tough you are when all your internal organs decompress into jelly

 

Some form of LS Extended breathing since your not gonna be able to breath for about 5 to 6 mins or so. Pretty sure it would be the next best thing to impossible to actually take a breath while falling at terminal velocity. The actual pressure gradients of air being forced into your lungs ect.

 

LS intense heat and cold- 1st off outer space out side earths atmosphere is nasty extremes either your in direct solar radiation and fried by very high temperatures or your in shadow and its VERY cold. Additionally these compensate for the heat of re entry if any base on angle/starting velocity ect. as well as the fact that its Very cold on the outer edges of the earths atmosphere and the 1st 3 mins or so of the fall are spent in very cold temps with a high wind chill. Basically need these to account for all the variables in the how and why your falling.

 

Dont think you need LS Radiation because your only gonna spend a min or so in hard space before you get into the earths atmosphere but it is useful in the situation.

 

If you dont have these I personally think you die with in the 1st 30 seconds of exposure to hard space before the whole re entry thing even comes up.

 

After that I would personally say that the fall is killing dmg unless your hitting water at least a 1/2 mile deep. The books say 30dcs for terminal velocity you just have to decide if thats reasonable to you, based on some of the examples in the system it seems to fit. That would give you a range of 10 body with 10 stun on the low end to 60 body with 300 stun on the high end with 35 body and 105 stun being the average. If you go with average then depending on the body of the subject you need some where in the range of 15 to 30 resistant PD to survive the impact with positive body. And average person with 8 body would need 28 PD to end with 1 body left and not start bleeding to death for example. Course the high end would still turn the poor guy into patte so if you want a sure thing he would need 53 PDr. The subjects body is a huge factor in the equation as it greatly reduces the amount of PD needed. a 30 body super for example only needs 6PDr to have positive body from and average fall and 31PDr to have positive body from a worst case scenario. Having enough stun to remain conscious and crawl/walk out of your crater is a completely different ball game and probably the next best thing to impossible with out at least 50% DR and super levels of physical stats to support the stun pool needed.

[Maur]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Some form of LS Extended breathing since your not gonna be able to breath for about 5 to 6 mins or so. Pretty sure it would be the next best thing to impossible to actually take a breath while falling at terminal velocity. The actual pressure gradients of air being forced into your lungs ect.

 

Terminal velocity for a human in the horizontal position (face down or up) is 120MPH or so. I know I have no trouble breathing when traveling that fast on a highway with the wind in my face. The problem with breathing at higher altitudes is the low partial pressure of oxygen. This is why HALO skydivers carry oxygen tanks and masks with them.

 

LS intense heat and cold- 1st off outer space out side earths atmosphere is nasty extremes either your in direct solar radiation and fried by very high temperatures or your in shadow and its VERY cold. Additionally these compensate for the heat of re entry if any base on angle/starting velocity ect. as well as the fact that its Very cold on the outer edges of the earths atmosphere and the 1st 3 mins or so of the fall are spent in very cold temps with a high wind chill. Basically need these to account for all the variables in the how and why your falling.

 

Dont think you need LS Radiation because your only gonna spend a min or so in hard space before you get into the earths atmosphere but it is useful in the situation.

 

If you dont have these I personally think you die with in the 1st 30 seconds of exposure to hard space before the whole re entry thing even comes up.

 

After that I would personally say that the fall is killing dmg unless your hitting water at least a 1/2 mile deep. The books say 30dcs for terminal velocity you just have to decide if thats reasonable to you, based on some of the examples in the system it seems to fit. That would give you a range of 10 body with 10 stun on the low end to 60 body with 300 stun on the high end with 35 body and 105 stun being the average. If you go with average then depending on the body of the subject you need some where in the range of 15 to 30 resistant PD to survive the impact with positive body. And average person with 8 body would need 28 PD to end with 1 body left and not start bleeding to death for example. Course the high end would still turn the poor guy into patte so if you want a sure thing he would need 53 PDr. The subjects body is a huge factor in the equation as it greatly reduces the amount of PD needed. a 30 body super for example only needs 6PDr to have positive body from and average fall and 31PDr to have positive body from a worst case scenario. Having enough stun to remain conscious and crawl/walk out of your crater is a completely different ball game and probably the next best thing to impossible with out at least 50% DR and super levels of physical stats to support the stun pool needed.

 

Inigo Montoya: Let me 'splain.

[pause]

Inigo Montoya: No, there is too much. Let me sum up.

 

This seems to be a very good summary of what has been discussed in this thread

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

30/105?!

 

NFW, dude. That's just not enough. Besides, that ain't normal damage -- I don't what the rules say. It ain't called "terminal" velocity cause it's normal damage. That there be KILLIN' DAMAGE, SON!

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

30/105?!

 

NFW, dude. That's just not enough. Besides, that ain't normal damage -- I don't what the rules say. It ain't called "terminal" velocity cause it's normal damage. That there be KILLIN' DAMAGE, SON!

 

Technically, it ain't called terminal velocity because it kills you either. It's terminal velocity because you're no longer accelerating.

 

A parachutist is falling at terminal velocity as well, for someone with an open parachute.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

30/105?!

 

NFW, dude. That's just not enough. Besides, that ain't normal damage -- I don't what the rules say. It ain't called "terminal" velocity cause it's normal damage. That there be KILLIN' DAMAGE, SON!

 

To a normal person with 8 BODY and 2 PD, 30DC's is plenty deadly

[Beast]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Dry Ice(CO2 in solid form)is about -10 deg F

which is just a little colder than 0 deg C

you might be thinking of liquid nitrogen which I think is in that area

saw a teacher dip a banana in it and then used it as a hammer

 

angle of attackfor entering the atmosphere is what needs to be defined

the closer to 90 degrees the shorter time till you hit ground less time to heat up from friction

 

now what will be the explosion from a mass of 100kg hitting the ground at near orbital velocities

 

I don't think you would worry about 'the bends' in the case. Becuase it is the result of moving from high preasure, where Nitrogen and other gases compress into your body, to areas of low preasure to quickly. Cuasing the aformentioned Nitrogen to rapidly reform into its gas state and, essentially 'boil' out.

 

And as a side note to the minus 70 degrees C survival idea. If you want to know what it would be like to survive that temp, here is how to simulate it. Fill your fridge full of Dry Ice till it adjust temp and stand in there(w/ some form of air supply, otherwise you will suffocate). Dry ice is about -80C. If you can still feel your toes and fingers after 10minutes, you might be able to survive the atmospheric temp.

 

La Rose

[Drhoz]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

angle of attackfor entering the atmosphere is what needs to be defined

the closer to 90 degrees the shorter time till you hit ground less time to heat up from friction

 

now what will be the explosion from a mass of 100kg hitting the ground at near orbital velocities

 

 

for a 1m wide lump of porous rock (ice as even less tough) entering straight down, at a mere 15 kps

 

Energy before atmospheric entry: 8.84 x 1010 Joules = 0.21 x 10-4 MegaTons TNT

The average interval between impacts of this size somewhere on Earth is less than 1 month.

 

Atmospheric Entry:

The projectile begins to breakup at an altitude of 70500 meters = 231000 ft

The projectile bursts into a cloud of fragments at an altitude of 59600 meters = 196000 ft

The residual velocity of the projectile fragments after the burst is 14 km/s = 8.7 miles/s

The energy of the airburst is 1.14 x 1010 Joules = 0.27 x 10-5 MegaTons.

No crater is formed, although large fragments may strike the surface.

 

so, where will they find the large fragments of you?

 

calculations via The Impact Calculator

 

http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/

[Drhoz]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

assuming typical PC toughness - solid iron - and a mininum orbital velocity - 11kph - at least you get a crater, and the impactor remains mostly intact.

 

Transient Crater Diameter: 32.1 m = 105 ft

Transient Crater Depth: 11.4 m = 37.3 ft

 

Final Crater Diameter: 40.2 m = 132 ft

Final Crater Depth: 8.56 m = 28.1 ft

 

The crater formed is a simple crater

 

The floor of the crater is underlain by a lens of broken rock debris (breccia) with a maximum thickness of 3.97 m = 13 ft.

At this impact velocity ( < 12 km/s), little shock melting of the target occurs.

 

There won't even be a fireball, and even a mere 100 metres from the crater you'll barely feel the seismic shockwave.

 

Admittedly, the civilians on the block you just reduced to a Simple Crater will be very unhappy....

[Beast]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

thanks

 

shouldn't that be 11 kps(kilometers per second)

 

assuming typical PC toughness - solid iron - and a mininum orbital velocity - 11kph - at least you get a crater, and the impactor remains mostly intact.

 

Transient Crater Diameter: 32.1 m = 105 ft

Transient Crater Depth: 11.4 m = 37.3 ft

 

Final Crater Diameter: 40.2 m = 132 ft

Final Crater Depth: 8.56 m = 28.1 ft

 

The crater formed is a simple crater

 

The floor of the crater is underlain by a lens of broken rock debris (breccia) with a maximum thickness of 3.97 m = 13 ft.

At this impact velocity ( < 12 km/s), little shock melting of the target occurs.

 

There won't even be a fireball, and even a mere 100 metres from the crater you'll barely feel the seismic shockwave.

 

Admittedly, the civilians on the block you just reduced to a Simple Crater will be very unhappy....

[Drhoz]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

thanks

 

shouldn't that be 11 kps(kilometers per second)

 

quite right - my bad - the calculation WAS for kps, tho.

[TheJudge]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

For the heat wouldn't Life support Immune to heat cover re-entry since it's an enviromental effect and not some one actual attack? Because with life support Immune to heat and of course other things from the life support power characters can live in suns unaffected by the heat or even the solar flares which reach greater tempatures.

 

FYI it's our sun that burns at 6000k but it is said that there are suns that burn much hotter than ours.

 

In closing I would say 3 LS Immune to heat covers re-entry and 30 Pd or rpd if Gm decided it's kill for what ever reason would cover the suviving. Now add damage reduction and you have a threat from space that lands and begins reaking havok!

[Markdoc]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Actually, we had this very question come up in our first Champions Campaign and the GM decided that appropriate LS and 30 DEF would be enough.

 

My Character (The Watcher: Flying Brick with Cyborg/Electromagnetic powers) was tackling alien spaceships when he got nuked The GM ruled a Nuke did 100 DC damage, which (with 36 rPD and a 60 ED forcefield from his multipower) the character actually survived. But the Stun damage left him at GM's option - so he was blown out of orbit and fell back to Earth. In this case, GM's option meant he woke up just in time to go "Wow! I'm alive! Hey, what's that coming towards me...?" WHAM - and go to GM's option land again.

 

His comrades later found him still alive and steaming gently from radiant heat in a 10 metre deep crater (we guessed pretty close to what it should have been, by the look of it).

 

Not perhaps his most glorious moment, but I always felt that surviving being nuked and then re-entry while unconscious was the high point of his career.

 

cheers, Mark

[archermoo]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Dry Ice(CO2 in solid form)is about -10 deg F

which is just a little colder than 0 deg C

you might be thinking of liquid nitrogen which I think is in that area

saw a teacher dip a banana in it and then used it as a hammer

 

As a note, CO2 turns solid at -109F (-78.5C). It is MUCH colder than normal ice.

 

Oh, and -10F is -23C, which is much colder than 0C. 32F is 0C.

 

As another note, nitrogen liquifies at -196C, or -320F (or 77.2K).

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Not perhaps his most glorious moment, but I always felt that surviving being nuked and then re-entry while unconscious was the high point of his career.

 

If you gotta go down, there are wimpier ways to go about it.

[Drhoz]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

As a note, CO2 turns solid at -109F (-78.5C). It is MUCH colder than normal ice.

 

Oh, and -10F is -23C, which is much colder than 0C. 32F is 0C.

 

As another note, nitrogen liquifies at -196C, or -320F (or 77.2K).

 

provided the pressure is right - air that thin they'll happily stay gases.

[Maur]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Yep, lower pressures than found at sea level means lower melting and boiling temps. In the case of CO2 it means a lower sublimation temp (solid->gas with no liquid step).

[McCoy]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Thank you everyone for this thread!

 

Plot point from Underdog movie behind spoiler tags.

 

 

Thanks to this thread, I was able to quickly determine Underdog's PD and ED in the movie. He got taken to orbital height by knockback, reentered. Was knocked out, but apparently no body damage, by the impact of the landing, but took minor damage from the heat of reentry.

 

[Maur]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

That sounds similar to Johnny Flame and the Rise of the Silver Surfer.

[archermoo]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

provided the pressure is right - air that thin they'll happily stay gases.

 

Yep' date=' lower pressures than found at sea level means lower melting and boiling temps. In the case of CO2 it means a lower sublimation temp (solid->gas with no liquid step). [/quote']

 

The temps I quoted are at atmospheric pressure. The numbers would certainly change if the pressure changed.

 

As yet another note, the reason that Dry Ice is called Dry Ice is that at normal pressure CO2 sublimates.

[Bluefire]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Something I got curious about after seeing the latest crop of comics-related sci-fi blockbusters...

 

What kind of Characteristics and Defense Powers would a character need in order to make it semi-plausible (s)he survives atmosphere re-entry and fall from orbit relatively unscathed (i.e. no significant Killing Damage) ??

 

 

LS: Vacuum, Extreme heat/cold

Desolid (physicial damage only) character can control kinetic forces. eg. how hard he will hit when he does impact.

 

The desolid power came to me after watching Jackie Chan get pummelled and thrown off a building, jump up and run away. The power is bought with a few lims like "must know attack is incoming", etc...

[Mr_Yuck]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Best way to survive is to have all the above mentioned powers and convince the GM that you are NOT falling.

 

You are attempting a move-through on the planet.

 

Figure up the damage for this and you'll see what I mean!

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Surviving fall from orbit

 

Terminal velocity for a human in the horizontal position (face down or up) is 120MPH or so. I know I have no trouble breathing when traveling that fast on a highway with the wind in my face. The problem with breathing at higher altitudes is the low partial pressure of oxygen. This is why HALO skydivers carry oxygen tanks and masks with them.

 

Doesn't that speed assume a fall within fairly normal air pressure? If you're falling from 20+ miles up, there's going to be a much longer period of 1g acceleration with almost no friction to brake your speed until you're within a few miles of the surface.

 

In any event, to take one of our movie exampples, since Johnny Storm is both immune to any reasonable level of heat and routinely able to withstand the pressure stresses of flying at what appears to be much more than 120 MPH I'd guess the impact at the end is really all he has to watch out for.