Can you choose not to Regenerate?

[CorPse]

I'll admit it. I am feeling lazy... or is it tired?

 

Anyway, I could probably dig in the book to find this, I reckon, but I'm guessing "somebody already knows."

 

Okay so here's the power... straight-up 5th ed Healing/Regeneration:

 

Regeneration 3 BODY, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (60 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2)

 

So, if I have this power, can I choose not to regenerate when Post-Segment 12 rolls along? If not, is there a way to build Regeneration so you can control it when you are conscious? (Obviously, I wouldn't be able to do anything about it when he's unconscious.)

 

I've got a player that wants to hide this ability sometimes.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

I see no reason you couldn't turn it off, other than perhaps special effects (Wolverine can't turn his regeneration off, for example, but ... uh ... okay, I don't have a counterexample).

[CorPse]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

Thanks... you gave me a nice little chuckle...

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

I'll admit it. I am feeling lazy... or is it tired?

 

Anyway, I could probably dig in the book to find this, I reckon, but I'm guessing "somebody already knows."

 

Okay so here's the power... straight-up 5th ed Healing/Regeneration:

 

Regeneration 3 BODY, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (60 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2)

 

So, if I have this power, can I choose not to regenerate when Post-Segment 12 rolls along? If not, is there a way to build Regeneration so you can control it when you are conscious? (Obviously, I wouldn't be able to do anything about it when he's unconscious.)

 

I've got a player that wants to hide this ability sometimes.

 

As built, your example allows the character to not use the ability. If you had taken the Always On Limitation then he would have no choice. Painkiller Jane had the ability to suppress her regeneration ability.

[Greywind]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

I had a player who's character was only capable of regenerating when he was meditating.

[caris]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

As built' date=' your example allows the character to not use the ability. If you had taken the Always On Limitation then he would have no choice. Painkiller Jane had the ability to suppress her regeneration ability.[/quote']

 

Even so, I'd be reluctant to allow Always On as more than a -0 Limitation for Regeneration. At least not without a better idea of how the power will be less effective without being able to turn it off.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

The build allows you to turn it off, but the official build for regeneration requires that you include 'self only'.

 

Mind you I'm not a fan of the official build, and not just for that reason - I'm still maintaining that 'Persistent' does not do what everyone seems to think that it does, and the power requires 'Continuous' as well. I appreciate that I am a one man band on this.

[CorPse]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

Even so' date=' I'd be reluctant to allow Always On as more than a -0 Limitation for Regeneration. At least not without a better idea of how the power will be less effective without being able to turn it off.[/quote']

 

Good point...

 

I guess you could make the case that someone could Mind Control you to turn it off... but something like that would be worth maybe (-1/4).

[CorPse]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

The build allows you to turn it off, but the official build for regeneration requires that you include 'self only'.

 

Mind you I'm not a fan of the official build, and not just for that reason - I'm still maintaining that 'Persistent' does not do what everyone seems to think that it does, and the power requires 'Continuous' as well. I appreciate that I am a one man band on this.

 

I scrolled up to make sure, and Self Only (-1/2) is included above.

 

Have you ever had the Persistent/Continuous debate with Mr. Steve? Curious to know the position he took on this...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

I scrolled up to make sure' date=' and Self Only (-1/2) [i']is[/i] included above.

 

Have you ever had the Persistent/Continuous debate with Mr. Steve? Curious to know the position he took on this...

 

Sorry, meant to say 'always on'.

 

Doesn't even sound the same....

 

And yes, I have had the debate, or some one has. I'm still a one man band. It IS the official build after all.

[Cancer]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

I can imagine sadistic-villain constructs where Regeneration with Always On could be exploited to the hero characters' detriment (especially if coupled with the bleeding wound rules), but they're custom nemesis sorts of things, not enough to merit Always On as a limitation worth anything.

 

Example: Growback Boy and Somethingelse Lass get captured by Dr. Wicked. Both end up shackled in the same laboratory. Somethingelse Lass is obviously wired up to Wicked Electrodes. The switch for the electrodes is a photocell, so that light shining on the photocell prevents the electrodes from operating. Photocell is put behind Growback Boy's left thigh, which a minion of Dr. Wicked then lops off with an axe.

 

So when/if the leg grows back, the light is blocked, the circuit is completed, and Somethingelse Lass gets fried by the electrodes.

 

A bit of a reach, but sillier things happen in both comic-book and pulp genres.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

Even so' date=' I'd be reluctant to allow Always On as more than a -0 Limitation for Regeneration. At least not without a better idea of how the power will be less effective without being able to turn it off.[/quote']

 

The character could have a secret ID or espionage skills. Getting injured in one of those situations and then immediately healing could blow the cover.

[CorPse]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

Man, pretty sadistic... but a point well made, Cancer.

[CorPse]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

The character could have a secret ID or espionage skills. Getting injured in one of those situations and then immediately healing could blow the cover.

 

Interestingly... this is just the sort of character that started the discussion.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

Have you ever had the Persistent/Continuous debate with Mr. Steve? Curious to know the position he took on this...

 

I believe his position was "See page XX of 5ER for an example build of Regeneration using Healing" or something like that.

 

Mr. Long doesn't like discussing design philosophy, and all he can really say about the example build is that it's an example and you can build Regeneration anyway you like.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

There are a few situations where the ability to shut off the power would be nice, such as whenever something gets stuck in the character.

 

The Hulks regen is always on. One time he got cut across the stomach and his entrails spilled out. He scooped them up, shoved them back in and the wound sealed itself over his hands. I'm sure he wishes he could have at least slowed the Regen down a bit at the time.

 

 

Similarly, some characters can only reattach severed limbs, not regrow them. If the regen heals the wound before they can reattach it. The Flash heals super fast, but he doesn't have unbreakable bones like Wolverine. He once broke his hand in the middle of a fight and it healed wrong before the fight was over. Had to break and reset it several times to get it right again.

 

There are those situations where it's useful to play dead. No one's going to believe you are dead if they see your nicks and cuts closing before their eyes. Of course, there are also situations where it would be nice to be able to die. Ask Prometheus

 

Of course, there are always curses, diseases, nanites, poisons and what not that could be triggered when the characters regeneration is active.

 

There are also some RP considerations. I have a swordsman that never allows his wounds to be healed by magic because it makes the scars go away. In his culture a warriors battle scars are marks of pride. Lycanthropy was thus an even worse curse than normal...

 

Most of that stuff probably won't come up very often. If it does, then Always On might be appropriately limiting.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

The build allows you to turn it off, but the official build for regeneration requires that you include 'self only'.

 

Mind you I'm not a fan of the official build, and not just for that reason - I'm still maintaining that 'Persistent' does not do what everyone seems to think that it does, and the power requires 'Continuous' as well. I appreciate that I am a one man band on this.

 

Continuous is an advantage that is only applicable to powers that target others. Once the Self Only Limitation has been taken in addition to the 0 END Advantage it becomes legal to apply Persistent.

 

Here is the optional Regeneration presented in 5er and a variant built according to the standard rules. Note that the Real cost difference is only 2 points.

 

14 5er Optional Regeneration: Healing 2 BODY, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (40 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2) - END=0

 

16 Fully Statted Out Regeneration: Healing BODY 1d6+1 (standard effect: 4 points), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (45 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), -1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2) - END=0

 

I see no problem with the optional build.

 

Oh, and here are both of them again with the Always On Limitation applied:

 

12 5er Optional Regeneration: Healing 2 BODY, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (40 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2), Always On (-1/2) - END=0

 

14 Fully Statted Out Regeneration: Healing BODY 1d6+1 (standard effect: 4 points), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (45 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), -1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2), Always On (-1/2) - END=0

[CorPse]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

I believe his position was "See page XX of 5ER for an example build of Regeneration using Healing" or something like that.

 

Mr. Long doesn't like discussing design philosophy, and all he can really say about the example build is that it's an example and you can build Regeneration anyway you like.

 

I see. Thank you.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

Continuous is an advantage that is only applicable to powers that target others. Once the Self Only Limitation has been taken in addition to the 0 END Advantage it becomes legal to apply Persistent.

 

How long have I been out of the loop? When did this become a rule and where's it written down at?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

How long have I been out of the loop? When did this become a rule and where's it written down at?

 

from:

Hero System 5th Edition, Revised ■ Chapter One 257

 

DURATION ADVANTAGES

Value:

+1 for Continuous; +½ for Persistent (power must already have 0 END cost); +¼ for Inherent (power must already be 0 END, Persistent, and usually Always On)

These Advantages improve a power’s duration.

 

Continuous

Value: +1

This +1 Advantage allows a character to use an Attack Power (or other Instant Power) on a continuing basis without having to make a new Attack Roll every Phase against the same target. In other words, this Advantage converts an Instant Power into a Constant Power, and all rules governing Constant Powers apply to it (see page 98).

 

Persistent

Value: +½

An Instant or Constant Power with this +½ Advantage becomes a Persistent Power — it remains “turned on” even though the character is unconscious. The power must first cost no END, or be bought to Reduced Endurance (0 END). A Persistent Power costs 0 END to maintain, and remains turned on until the character consciously decides to turn it off or dies. (See page 100 for more information on Persistent Powers).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

I believe his position was "See page XX of 5ER for an example build of Regeneration using Healing" or something like that.

 

Mr. Long doesn't like discussing design philosophy, and all he can really say about the example build is that it's an example and you can build Regeneration anyway you like.

 

You can, but noone does because it is cheaper to build it the official way.

 

Here is MY approved build:

 

Healing: 2 dice (standard effect): 6 points (3 body) 20 points

 

Decreased re-use duration (1/turn) +1 1/2

 

0 END +1/2

 

Persistent +1/2

 

Continuous + 1

 

Self Only -1/2

 

This is 20 points +3 1/2 (90 points) and -1/2 for 60 points.

 

This gives you 3 points of regeneration per turn for 60 points, or 1 point for 20 points. I allow 'always on' as well, for -1/2, which reduces the cost to 15 points/points.

 

The official build makes a virtue of a vice and allows a LIMITATION for a healing power that works every turn. I have no idea how that is justified, other than an attempt to mollify the poor buggers who bought 4th edition regeneration for 10 points per point and were not keen to spend points to ugrade their characters.

 

Personally I'd be happy enough to add a general limtied power limitation (say) -1 in superhero games on the basis that injuries to Body are pretty rare. That would make the cost (with 'always on') work out at 1 regeneration for 10 points.

 

That sounds fair enough to me.

 

Oh, and I was completely wrong - the 'official build' does not require 'always on' now that I look at it, and so can quite legitimately be switched off at will.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

from:

Hero System 5th Edition, Revised ■ Chapter One 257

 

Yes.

 

And what sort of power is 'Healing'?

 

Instant. And look at 'Continuous' - which applies to instant powers too. It is blindingly clear that you need Continuous before you apply Persistent, or there would never be any point in applying continuous to a (non attack) instant power. That or the drafting is utterly rubbish, and Steve is a lawyer (or was) so that can't be right.

 

QED. To me, anyway.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

Yes.

 

And what sort of power is 'Healing'?

...

 

An Adjustment power that by default targets others. It is never referred to as an attack power. If it has the Self Only Limitation it turns into a Self Targeting Instant Power which, according to 5er, only needs 0 End before the Persistent Advantage can be applied.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

An Adjustment power that by default targets others. It is never referred to as an attack power. If it has the Self Only Limitation it turns into a Self Targeting Instant Power which' date=' according to 5er, only needs 0 End before the Persistent Advantage can be applied.[/quote']

 

....and if you can do that, without needing continuous, for an instant power, why would you ever need 'continuous' if 'persistent+0 END' does all that an oh-so-much-more?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Can you choose not to Regenerate?

 

....and if you can do that' date=' without needing continuous, for an instant power, why would you ever need 'continuous' if 'persistent+0 END' does all that an oh-so-much-more?[/quote']

 

Non-self-targeting powers?