ShadowrunHero game?

[mallet]

has anyone played or GM'd a ShadowrunHero game?

 

If so were their any big problems you ran into? Anything you would do differently this time through?

 

My friends and I are big fans of the Shadowrun setting and have played it for years, but we all love the Hero System better, so now that we are starting up a new campaign I was thinking of Gming it and using the Hero System for the rules.

 

So any advice would be appreciated.

[Ocelot]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

QuestionMan? KillerShrike? Either of you want to show up with some links?

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

Shadowrun HERO

http://www.starherofandom.com/h_shadowrun/index.php

 

Cyber Hero Resources

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1419371#post1419371

 

Post Apocalypse Resources

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1510450#post1510450

 

[Compilation] "to Star HERO Conversions & Adaptations"

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24969

 

 

BC Boys know best!

 

 

QM

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

There ya go. The only real problems would be in putting together the Matrix forms, but that's EDM (Matrix) + Multiform (cyberdeck).

 

Honestly, however, I'd build it all as a 'superhero' game -- i.e. I'd require points for everything, otherwise the gunbunnies are going to get away with murder.

[mallet]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

Thanks, QM!

 

SOme of that stuff kicks-ass, but I usually do my own conversions.

 

This is more of the kind of info I need:

 

 

Honestly, however, I'd build it all as a 'superhero' game -- i.e. I'd require points for everything, otherwise the gunbunnies are going to get away with murder.

 

 

Why is that Wyrm? In the normal Shadowrun game gunbunnies get to buy what they want with cash while the magical guys have to pay points for their powers.

 

Wouldn't changing that change the dynamic of the game away from source material where money is a big form of power?

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

This is exactly my point. Shadowrun is imbalanced against magic.

 

Gunbunnies aren't sinks unless they're cybered; then they're money sinks.

Riggers are money-sinks.

Deckers are money- and time-sinks.

Mages are karma-sinks AND money-sinks AND time-sinks.

 

In short, Mages get 100% shafted. However, in the HERO system, if you have everyone paying for everything out of points, then you have this:

 

Street Samurai pay towards cyber enhancements and Weapon VPPs.

Riggers pay towards specific cyber enhancements and Vehicles.

Deckers pay towards specific cyber enhancements and the Matrix (i.e. EDM & Multiform).

Mages pay towards a magic VPP, plus specific tools to enhance it (i.e. foci).

 

It becomes much less 'screw the mage over'. Ever play long enough to the point where the gunbunnies and faces are sitting around wondering what the hell to spend their money and karma on because they've gotten man-portable lasers and the best cyberware on the market, as well as skills in the double digits? While the company mage is still working on enchanting and binding that Power Focus 4?

[Thia Halmades]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

Having just done this, I'm with WO 100%; he could not be more right. If you have money as a viable purchase mechanic in a system that runs on points, then you can go on a few runs, rob a bank, and have a Panther Cannon on your hip by game four. Yuck. For my part, I use the Resource Pools from Dark Champions. I also started them very low (30 equip, 15 vehicle, 5 contacts) which I called: "A gun, a car, and a best friend." Now when the Samurai wants to carry a minigun, he has to have room in his Resource Pool for it.

 

It's basically a VPP that everyone gets "for free." The complete rules are in DC (I don't know to what extent I can reprint them, and additionally, I don't remember them all). Now that the Mage is buying spells straight (or in a VPP, what have you) and your Cyberware costs points to install, and your Physical Adepts have to buy Martial Maneuvers and Multi-Power Frameworks, you'll have a much more balanced campaign. And I learned that lesson because I had a gengineered brick who was getting out-done by a guy with wealth who had a Fixer for a contact.

 

Woops.

[eternal_sage]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

honestly, i wouldn't "convert" so much as use the setting as it stands and make a new magic system (although SR magic is sorta close to HERO power use, if you require "Costs END to activate" and maybe "Costs 2x END", so it shouldn't be to hard to accomplish, really), and just play it as a Dark Champions game with a bit of magic and the different meta-types.

 

of course, it all depends on which version you are using. i'm most familiar with 4th, although i know abit about 3rd, just not as much, and nothing before that, so my help may not even really be related.

 

when converting DnD settings, though, this is the method i use: racial (meta) template, cultural package, and a magic (hacking) system, and call it a done deal. i've found that converting specifics (like alignments, etc from DnD) is more trouble than its worth. if you want that stuff, i strongly suggest you stay in the normal system.

 

and i have never had any problem with using cash in a heroic game, but a good alternative is the Resource Points varient from Dark Champions (especially since SR has more to do w/ DC than SH, imho)

[Maur]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

I've never had an issue in SR with Mages vs Deckers vs Street Samurai. Maybe it is because the players learned to spend more of their resources on not getting noticed vs. being the biggest gun collection in the city. Lesson One they all learned, not matter how many guns you have, THEY always have something Bigger to deal with you... This wasn't me being a pain in the ass GM, but one using the setting as written.

 

Drive into a AAA rated neighborhood in a black armored van and see how Knight Errant or Lone Star react... The mages had no issue building up enough Karma from runs to improve their powers and even used money to obtain low powered foci for various tasks.

[eternal_sage]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

i've had similar expiriences, personally. i never have seen the issue of using currency in a game. as long as you actually place limits on what is obtainable (so that some 1st level rogue doesn't snatch a Holy Avenger or something on a routine shop heist) then its all in the wash.

[Maur]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

Well, I just used the availability chart and a roll from the player for items. So making that Availability 40 roll (with d6) wasn't likely to happen that fast. The odds are about 1/70000 for a single die to make that roll for the one success needed to get it. They could try again after the time (IIRC the laser was a roll of 30/week or something like that).

[eternal_sage]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

thats not a bad idea!! never really tought of that!

[mallet]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

Yah, I never had a problem with giving the players too much money or for things getting out of hand that way. I mean, as a GM, you control what the players can and can't get access to.

 

And it also keeps with the setting where Money = Power. If money didn't equal power then mages would be running the world, not megacorporations.

 

Also, money and gear can be lost, stolen and broken and it is hard to walk into a 'corp with a panther canon hanging over your back.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

MetaCyber

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

I've played 4th edition, and at least coming from starting characters, and only playing a few games (mostly disconnected adventures, primarily pre-generated), Shadow Run seems biased towards magic. The only defense against being magically screwed is having magic yourself (or killing them first, before they do something bad, like mental drain), and with some sustaining foci, you can get a few people in the party extra initiative passes nearly all the time (so they can use their essence for other implants).

 

Summoning is all sorts of broken, (I saw a starting level character summon a force 12 spirit, about 50% of the time he'd survive and binchslap whatever he wanted), and Detox is the most broken power (or at least to me).

 

Hacking is also pretty broken, because you can hack from nearly anywhere (at least according to the fluff where almost everything is wireless (including cyberlimbs), and if you have some wired-reflexes you can cold-sim and be immune to black ice.

 

I'd love to hear how a hero game set in a shadow run environment goes though, as I like the genre, but find 4th edition not what i want.

[mallet]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

I've played 4th edition' date=' and at least coming from starting characters, and only playing a few games (mostly disconnected adventures, primarily pre-generated), Shadow Run seems biased [i']towards[/i] magic. The only defense against being magically screwed is having magic yourself (or killing them first, before they do something bad, like mental drain), and with some sustaining foci, you can get a few people in the party extra initiative passes nearly all the time (so they can use their essence for other implants).

 

Summoning is all sorts of broken, (I saw a starting level character summon a force 12 spirit, about 50% of the time he'd survive and binchslap whatever he wanted), and Detox is the most broken power (or at least to me).

 

Hacking is also pretty broken, because you can hack from nearly anywhere (at least according to the fluff where almost everything is wireless (including cyberlimbs), and if you have some wired-reflexes you can cold-sim and be immune to black ice.

 

I'd love to hear how a hero game set in a shadow run environment goes though, as I like the genre, but find 4th edition not what i want.

 

That's the reason I want to switch the rules to Hero. It is really now just a question on how fair to change things with out loosing the "Shadowrun" feel of the game. This is made especially hard with my group since we have been playing Shadowrun on and off since first edition. So everyone knows how Shadowrun feels. But it has been awhile since we last played and I love the Hero System and I think using Hero will make the game a lot more enjoyable.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

Shadowrun's feel is mostly window dressing, so really you could run it in almost any system without losing anything mechanically. It's just a matter of building the equipment properly. And if The Question Man hasn't already provided linkage to Shadowrun's entire equipment list there are plenty of people willing to help with the conversions.

 

And I'll chime in saying that equipment pools for regular equipment and points for built-in equipment/abilities is the way to go in this game.

[Nolgroth]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

I'd love to hear how a hero game set in a shadow run environment goes though' date=' as I like the genre, but find 4th edition not what i want.[/quote']I preferred 3rd Edition. Haven't played since 2nd Edition so I cannot comment on the playability of 4th. 3rd looked like it just cleaned up the 2nd Edition rules.

 

I would say that 2nd Edition was biased against stock normal skills based characters. If you were a mage, a physical adept or some sort of street sammie, you got to go many more times than a normal. Often that gave the "special" guy more than enough of an edge to drop the skills based guy.

 

As far as magic goes, as I remember it foci and sustaining magics were just asking for something nasty from the astral to come visiting. Maybe that's just the way we played, but it kept the Quickened or Spell Locked hyper reaction spells to a minimum. Magic types were pretty icky as it was, being the whole summoning thing and all that. I never was able to summon a Force 12 spirit of any kind because, as I remember, the Street Index for that powerful of conjuration materials was rather steep. There was some other limiting factor too, but I just can't remember it. Conjuring skill, Charisma, Magic Rating? Can't remember.

 

I'd love to run a 3rd Edition game (or 2nd Edition if that's what we had). I read the 4th Edition Shadowrun rules and frankly, I wasn't impressed with what I saw.

 

To convert Shadowrun to HERO, see MetaCyber in Killer Shrike's link above. There is an attempt to more directly translate the mechanics at starherofandom.com, but it seemed rather "kludgy" to me. Did a fairly good job at simulating the mechanics though.

[Jkeown]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

I am currently running Caleon 1337. It's my normal Fantasy Hero Timeline, but 750 years in the future of our last game, and a few dozen years before the planet gets eaten by a great cosmic magical rift-thingy. I make the PCs pay points for Cyberware, Bioware, Decks and Magic. Guns and stuff are paid for with cash.

 

This has resulted in high SPD characters who are so wired they can't think straight. They take damage after they use that SPD, though... so it's not so bad.

[Rapier]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

I played ShadowRun during the first and second editions.

 

I love the setting. It is one of my favourite published settings. That amalgam of fantasy and sci-fi is just juicy!

 

I played a couple of mages over the years. They do, indeed, get the short end of the stick. For instance:

 

To get a ManaBolt focus of 5 costs 5 Karma. To get a Combat Spells focus is 15 Karma (5 * 3). To get a SpellCasting focus is 25 Karma (5 * 5). Bonding costs for foci are ridiculous.

 

The main problem I had with SR, as a game, was how the rules were stacked against mages (ever receive a bad wound and lose a point of magic?) and the damage mechanic. Both of these, could be easily fixed by converting the setting to Hero.

 

My current campaign has more than just a little bit of SR thrown into it, and it was done on purpose!

[eternal_sage]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

the newer editions (3rd and 4th) are both a little easier on mages but yea, there is still disparity between magic and "normals" even now, although that makes sense to me, as magic is another skill (that the normals don't have) and guns are things that are bought(and the mage should be getting at least a little skill with shooting them too, if he's smart). anything that makes you better, personally, costs CP, if it is a crutch that can be taken (and used against you) then its not worth it.

 

i mean, sure the mage may not have stats that are as high, but if the party gets captured, he's the one who is still dangerous, and it can't be taken from him (i don't recall any anti-magic stuff in SR) just like a monk in DnD can make his full unarmed strike with anypart of his body, while a fighter with a swordhand bound up is pretty much useless, except as an arrow shield.

[Maur]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

Mages/Adepts are supposed to be very rare in the setting, so it does make some sense that they aren't favored by the rule system. Also the balance of needing karma for bonding foci keeps mages from getting overly powerful vs non-mages as the games proceed. Losing magic if you suffered a Deadly injury (nothing less than reaching Deadly physical could even result in this) fits with the setting also. As a mage it made it very important to not want to get too deeply involved in a firefight that could result in one nearly dying.

 

Street sams also paid a price for putting too much cyber in their body. The lower their essence, the harder it was for a mage to use healing magic on them to keep them alive.

 

"Rule No 1: Don't use physical spells on trolls"

"Rule No 2: Don't use healing on the heavily cybered street sam"

"Rule No 3: Target enemy casters first"

"Rule No 4: Be careful how much magic one radiates. You never know what you might attract from Astral space through all those wonderful foci"

etc...

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

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QM

 

 

End of Line...

[Captain Obvious]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

Huh...I would have thought otherwise. The one time I played Shadowrun the munchkin/rules lawyer of the group played a mage, and I don't recall him ever playing any but the single most powerful character type in any given game. Maybe the GM had some mage-related house rules I wasn't aware of at the time....

[Thia Halmades]

Re: ShadowrunHero game?

 

The last time I played the game itself was well over a decade ago, and we had a great time with it, but the system was certainly flawed. I played a lot of it in high school as well (that was back in the day, good heavens) but as I've said about other games: when you convert things over and everything starts costing points, life becomes a lot easier in terms of balance & management.