Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

[Trebuchet]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

PERSONALY

 

How big of an influence is his chess playing going to effect the HERO game?

 

If it might come up occasionaly, a PS and call it good, I would let it double as a host of other chess related skills like Cultural, historical, etc... with some penalties

 

CHESS HERO, the game of Chess champions: A bunch of complimentary skills, including Gambling, PS, KS (multiple), CulKS, Russian, Rep, etc...

 

Almost never, except to say your playing chess in the park when them I would call it a 0 point flavor skill

 

The points are there to represent how useful it is

That's my thought as well. Right now I took KS: Chess as one of the character's free Everyman Skills to represent a hobby. I want to upgrade to something a bit more concrete; that's all.

[GamePhil]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

The description for Gambling includes playing against someone in addition to playing against 'the house'.

 

Sure, when playing a game that can be considered gambling. Craps is gambling: you're purely playing the odds. Poker is gambling: you're playing the odds and against a variety of intangibles that make it more than just a game of chance, but still a gamble. Chess is not a game of chance, though some Presence skills might be complementary in a similar fashion to poker.

 

This, however, is purely my interpretation of how it is currently written into the game, based on the fact that it is generally given to characters as the PS but is also listed in Gambling. I can find no great objection to your logic other than it is not how it is done.

 

Also since gambling uses the subcatagory system it creates a relatively inexpensive route to learn other games which is important because the 'being good at games' aspect of being good at games shouldn't be crazy expensive.

 

I'd be perfectly comfortable with getting rid of most every cost structure of Skill and keeping only something like Gambling, and then allowing Skill Enhancers (or even letting EC's be applied to Skills) for just about everything as well, so I'm certainly not one to argue with you there.

[jtelson]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Sure, when playing a game that can be considered gambling. Craps is gambling: you're purely playing the odds. Poker is gambling: you're playing the odds and against a variety of intangibles that make it more than just a game of chance, but still a gamble. Chess is not a game of chance, though some Presence skills might be complementary in a similar fashion to poker.

 

This, however, is purely my interpretation of how it is currently written into the game, based on the fact that it is generally given to characters as the PS but is also listed in Gambling. I can find no great objection to your logic other than it is not how it is done.

 

I've generally assumed that the PS: example of play chess was a pre-gambling subcatagory artifact. They changed gambling to include board games, but forgot to take games out of other skills.

People do seem to get hung up on the name of the skill though. Odd in a system where throwing a rock can be described as an 'Energy' blast.

[boomer]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

I'll add my .02 but a lot of it has been said already....KS, PS, then lots of KS relating to the subject.....yes you can roll only one as a complimentary...but you have them to choose from. Rep's a good one and Rivalry would be good too (stuck for that last Disad....there you go). Don't be afraid to use PS with KS....you can never have enough KS if you ask me.....

[GamePhil]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

I've generally assumed that the PS: example of play chess was a pre-gambling subcatagory artifact.

 

Always a possibility. I could certainly find my way through to renaming the skill Gaming and have done with it (or just leave it as it is, but Gambling has specific connotations for me that don't fit a broader skill as well), but like I said, I'd also change all Skills to match, so I'm perhaps biased.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

The book lists PS: Play Chess as an example, so that would appear to be the skill to play a game of chess. Gambling does not apply, since chess does not involve chance in the usual sense.

 

KS: Chess is undoubtedly part of the repertoire. A chess grandmaster would also want KS: The Chess World, to know what's in store from a particular opponent or proteges of a particular chess teacher.

 

Lastly, let's not overlook Analyze: Chess.

 

Typical grandmaster:

INT of 12 to 15

 

Well, an INT divisible by 5 certainly helps. Especially if some of those INT-based skills will be complementary.

 

EGO 12

 

I'm not convinced one needs a high EGO to play chess. Even the high INT isn't essential, but it would certainly help.

 

PS: Play Chess' date=' at INT +2 (5 points)[/quote']

 

I would say rather PS: Chess at 14- or higher. A high INT means you need less focus on the skill. 14- is a pretty huge skill, and I could see a case for 13-, or even something a bit lower, but there are less than 1,000 Grandmasters in the world, so this must be more than a simple Familiarity and probably more than 11-. A lot depends on where the campaign sets skill levels. I think, in many games, we downgrade the effectiveness of these skills, requiring someone to have two or three 14- skills just to be decent in a field of endeavour, when a person with a Familiarity is supposed to be good enough to work under supervision, and an 11- is adequate to make a career unsupervised in the area.

 

KS: Chess at INT (3 points)

 

Handy, as it will give you a sense of certain classic strategies. I'd give it complementary status to PS in some cases. Not essential.

 

KS: The Chess World at INT (3 points)

 

Handy, as it will give you a sense of certain well-known players' styles. I'd give it complementary status to Analyze, or even PS, in some cases. Not essential.

 

Analyze: Chess (INT) (3 points)

 

Quite valuable, as you will be able to see the weaknesses in the player's style and may be able to lure him into a mistake. I'd give an advantage to the player succeeding with it, but you probably have to play a few games without full focus on your own game to bring it to bear. Not essential, but probably common to world-class players (not to all Grandmasters).

 

Reputation: Chess grandmaster' date=' 8-, small group[/quote']

 

So every grandmaster (at a minimum) recognizes about 25% of other grandmasters on sight and/or by name? I think not. Again, something for a more well-known grandmaster, but not every one of them.

 

World renowned master:

INT of 15

 

Maybe he's not that bright, just good at chess. Although INT remains superior for complementary skills, so it certainly helps.

 

+2 skill levels' date=' "Chess Grandmaster": Play Chess, Analyze Chess, KS: Chess[/quote']

 

Sure - levels are always good. But this puts your 15 INT character at PS: Chess 16-, plus complementary skills. Is he really that good?

 

Raise reputation to 11- or 14-

 

Hence "world renowned", I suppose.

 

add

Disadvantage: Reputation, among chess players, as a celebrity grandmaster's game is going to be very well known

 

I suspect one reason one may be the best of the best is that one can adapt one's game to counter one's opponent. This would mean his style is harder, not easier, to analyze. Mind you, that's in your "best" character.

 

The best:

INT of 18-20

 

Again, I think you can get there through focus and need not have a 13- PER roll to be the best chess player in the world.

 

Add Lack of Weakness (Analyze: Chess) -2

 

Certainly one approach - depends how common Analyze Chess is.

 

In the Game: 2d6 Aid to INT' date=' RSR (Analyze: Chess, opposed by PS: Play Chess), Side Effect (mental exhaustion, -2 to INT, EGO, and PRE rolls for an hour), Only to play chess (-1)[/quote']

 

Getting a bit esoteric now. I would suggest one further possibility, being Gambling. This isn't about the odds, but about one's opponent. Can you bluff him away from your actual strategy and towards your bluff so he falls into the trap?

 

So for less cost as being a "garden variety" Grandmaster (one of about 900 in the world), I could be as rich as Bill Gates (15 points of Wealth), and better-liked (a +2 worldwide reputation as a swell guy on a 14-; 6 points).

 

That sort of makes me think that being a chess Grandmaster should cost less than 22 points.

 

I'm inclined to agree. Cost and utility should align.

 

How big of an influence is his chess playing going to effect the HERO game?

 

If it might come up occasionaly, a PS and call it good, I would let it double as a host of other chess related skills like Cultural, historical, etc... with some penalties

 

CHESS HERO, the game of Chess champions: A bunch of complimentary skills, including Gambling, PS, KS (multiple), CulKS, Russian, Rep, etc...

 

Almost never, except to say your playing chess in the park when them I would call it a 0 point flavor skill

 

The points are there to represent how useful it is

 

Not only the points, I would say, but the breakdown of skills. Many of the skills suggested essentially assume that chess matches will be played out in great detail over the course of the campaign. If that's not the case, slap a PS down - at most - and carry on.

 

It's funny how we all remember a Limitation that doesn't limit saves no points, and there's no points awarded for Disadvantages that carry no disadvantage, but how few of us are prepared to apply a corollary that beneficial attributes that carry nominal or no benefits should reasonably carry a commensurate nominal or nil cost. A GM who has no trouble charging extensive points for some useless skill set, but can't possibly allow a 5 point disadvantage that won't come up frequently in play, is speaking out opf both sides of his mouth (or, perhaps, from some other orifice), in my opinion.

[Comic]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Why perk, and what does it get you?

 

1. Access. There are Grandmaster only tournaments, events, workshops, seminars and so forth that only a Grandmaster can attend. Not all openings are chess-related, either; some tactical discussion groups, military think-tanks, advanced studies organizations and the like could or do extend access to grandmasters as experts in strategy.

 

2. Income. There are jobs only a Grandmaster would be considered for, from the obvious chess player or writer to dean of studies, etc. This would apply more in Russia.

 

3. Title. You get, obviously, to say 'Grandmaster', before your name, a prestigious and respected appelative that is socially useful.

 

4. Right to challenge. You're a grandmaster. You don't have to accept certain unqualified challenges, and you may be able in some circumstances to oblige certain others to accept your challenge.

[Shaft]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

A few thoughts:

 

I think the gambling and/or PS: skill would represent the actual gameplay, while the KS: would represent the history of the game, names of players, classic strategies, etc... A guy with only KS: chess could probably use it as a PS skill at a -2 penalty. A guy with KS and the PS/gambling would use his PS/gambling skill and use his KS to get himself a complimentary skill.

 

The guys who play in the park might only have gambling/PS without the KS. The academic chessplayer who only plays by correspondance and doesn't have to worry about a time limit between moves relies purely on his KS.

 

Many Chess grandmasters might have a psych. Limitation: Obsessed with Chess. These guys eat , drink, and breathe chess. At the risk of promoting a stereotype, a lot of them are portrayed as being mildly autistic (Asperger's Syndrome, perhaps?). A lot of them have higher INT's (13+) and this is a way for them to focus.

 

Putting 20-25 pts or so into this passion is not unusual. A leading scientist with a PhD and a reputation in his field would probably spend the same. It's nice that 15 pts of wealth is so cheap, but that 15 pts usually comes with skills, contacts and perks.

 

As for a repuation, in fiction, it's not uncommon for rival chessmasters who have never met to recognise one another on sight.

 

In true HERO fashion, there are several way to build a Grandmaster- all the methods lised prior to this seem good to me. One master might be an 18 INT bookworm who is relying exclusively on his KS: chess at 20- with a penatly that makes him roll at 18- (15 pts). Another might be using his 10 INT and 13 PRE, and his streetsmart 13- gambling skill backed up with a PS, KS at 11- and analyze: chess 11- to get complimentary bonuses that let him roll at the same level (15 pts). The "generic" competitors might have INT 13, PS: chess at 14- and a complimentary KS at 12- that let them roll at 16- or so (9 pts). Another competitor might be to augment his "generic" skills with his SS: Psychology skill. Another one might do it with Tactics. And so on... All of them are interesting builds, and all have their own "flavour".

 

I think the way to do this is to establish what a "generic" contender needs in any given game and then build your character so that they qualify. But then again, the same applies to science expertise. In one persons game "SS: physics 13-" is enough to make him a leading physicist. In another, he might need 20-25 pts in sciences, contacts, reputation and INT. YMMV.

[sbarron]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

I think PS: Chess would also cover the in-and-outs of actually playing chess for a living. Knowing the different stops on the chess tour, knowing where all the big tournaments are, knowing how to register at chess tournaments, the various tournament formats you might find, where to find all the hot chess groupies in each city, etc.

 

Not that this stuff would be worth a whole bunch for a character, but I think it would be the kind of stuff that PS: Chess would include.

[Vondy]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

If you're going minimalist:

 

PS: Chess 14- (or better).

 

OR

 

Gambling (Chess) 14- (or better).

 

I believe gambling is the orthodox way to do it in the current edition.

 

If you're going granular:

 

PS: Chess or Gambling (Chess) 14- (or better)

KS: Chess X-

KS: Chess World X-

Perk: Chess Association Standing - Grandmaster

 

And if you're feeling super-crazy options are needed:

 

Analyze: Chess Strategy X- (for those really intense games against other grandmasters).

 

Eidicit Memory - Positional Memory Only (chess masters generally score high in this area).

 

Iron Concentration (Resistance +4) No psych outs.

 

Negative Skill Levels, UAO, Req. Eye Contact, Req. Ego Contest (across the board stare-down psych-out technique!)

 

Sleight of Hand... ahem!

 

Contact: Lawyer (no joke, I've read about more than one major tournament lawsuit!).

 

Passport.

 

If I Was Doing The Build...

 

Gambling (Chess) 20-

 

"I am to chess as mozart was to classical music...."

 

And if the character is a pro-tournament guy...

 

Perks: Passport, International Grandmaster Status, Money 1-5 Points.

 

"Get some..."

[gojira]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

I'd probably go with just KS:Chess and some business skills (most grandmasters are basically small business men and have to self-promote, I think). The rest is pretty optional.

 

KS:Chess World seems appropriate, at high enough levels it should allow you to analyse a style or a deviation for habitual play. Too much more seems like overkill to me.

[pawsplay]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

I've generally assumed that the PS: example of play chess was a pre-gambling subcatagory artifact. They changed gambling to include board games, but forgot to take games out of other skills.

People do seem to get hung up on the name of the skill though. Odd in a system where throwing a rock can be described as an 'Energy' blast.

 

I guess I'm also "hung up" on the description of the skill involving both skill and luck. My view: Chess ended up under Gambling through carelessness.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

I guess I'm also "hung up" on the description of the skill involving both skill and luck. My view: Chess ended up under Gambling through carelessness.

I tend to agree. I think there should have been a separate "Games of Skill" entry' date=' at least in [i']The Ultimate Skill.[/i] While there are some aspects of chance in most games; chess, go, and a few others are pure skill. It would have been useful to have a way to represent such skills in Hero without circumlocutions like "Gambling (Chess)".

[pawsplay]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

I'm not convinced one needs a high EGO to play chess. Even the high INT isn't essential, but it would certainly help.

 

Anyone who is prone to freak out episodes or self-doubt is simply not going to make it in the international chess scene. The sheer determination of champion chess players justifies an above average EGO.

 

 

I think, in many games, we downgrade the effectiveness of these skills, requiring someone to have two or three 14- skills just to be decent in a field of endeavour, when a person with a Familiarity is supposed to be good enough to work under supervision, and an 11- is adequate to make a career unsupervised in the area.

 

Well, we were discussing being a chess grandmaster. I think a chess grandmaster (14- or so with complementary skills) would absolutely destroy your local university chess team captain (11- to 12- or so). On the other hand, a supheroic PC (INT 20 with PS: Play chess 13-) can conduct a rather strong game with little investment in the way of points.

 

So every grandmaster (at a minimum) recognizes about 25% of other grandmasters on sight and/or by name? I think not. Again, something for a more well-known grandmaster, but not every one of them.

 

Point taken. Move rep 8- down to the "renowned" cagegory, 11- to world champions, and 14- are the guys who take on Deep Thought. Bobby Fisher has a Reputation outside the small group.

 

Maybe he's not that bright, just good at chess. Although INT remains superior for complementary skills, so it certainly helps.

 

You don't have to be very smart to play chess. I am simply assuming that as you rise through the competitive tiers, people will be, on average, increasingly smart. A chess grandmaster either has some good natural talent or is amazingly overtrained.

 

Sure - levels are always good. But this puts your 15 INT character at PS: Chess 16-, plus complementary skills. Is he really that good?

 

Well, I was defining a character who is "really that good." That's the skill level you need to trounce ordinary grandmasters.

 

Again, I think you can get there through focus and need not have a 13- PER roll to be the best chess player in the world.

 

Apart from the need for glasses, and some cases of mental illness, I would assume a champion chess player does have an above average PER roll. Mental flexibility, general neurological fitness, etc. Not in every case, mind you; less generally competent characters might just have more skill levels, but that seems almost like a game artifact. I think more holistically, you would to be able to say chess champions are pretty smart. If you want to say that 15 INT is enough for a real world champion, you can, but I think of them as being very intelligent experts. I would expect to see more deficits than simply mediocre abilities.

 

Getting a bit esoteric now. I would suggest one further possibility, being Gambling. This isn't about the odds, but about one's opponent. Can you bluff him away from your actual strategy and towards your bluff so he falls into the trap?

 

Well, I wasn't intending this ability to be representative. I was just thinking of some anecdotes I read about chess matches and mental strain. You can consider this a placeholder for "those guys, you know, THOSE guys, probably have a 5 to 10 point ability related to chess."

 

 

Not only the points, I would say, but the breakdown of skills. Many of the skills suggested essentially assume that chess matches will be played out in great detail over the course of the campaign. If that's not the case, slap a PS down - at most - and carry on.

 

I essentially agree. Most of what I wrote applies more to NPCs with modest attributes. If a PC wants to be a chess grandmaster, and has a good INT, just slap on PS: Play Chess (INT) and Familiarity with KS: The Chess World and KS: Chess.

 

You know what would be a fun ability?

 

12d6 Telepathy, No Range (-1/2), No Mental Awareness (-1/4), RSR (PS: Play Chess) (-1/4), Results are inferential (-1/2), Extra Time (5 Minutes (-2), Receive Only (-1/2). Total cost: 12 points (60 active).

 

Basically, you sit down and play a game of chess, and after a few minutes, completely penetrate your opponent's psychology through your reading of the game. It won't tell you he has a fiance named Maureen, but it might tell you he's engaged and for how long, and how he feels about his love's personality (the Inferential limitation).

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

 

I essentially agree. Most of what I wrote applies more to NPCs with modest attributes. If a PC wants to be a chess grandmaster, and has a good INT, just slap on PS: Play Chess (INT) and Familiarity with KS: The Chess World and KS: Chess.

Yeah, seriously.

I gave my Gadgeteer KS:Chess at the 3 point INT based level (Reduced due to Scholar) and wound up as a pretty effective Grandmaster:a 23 INT, 2 Overall levels, 2 INT based skills levels, Tactics at 16-, Analyze Tactics at 13-, and SS: Psychology at 13-. whats that? A 17- plus Complimentary skill rolls?

 

Of course, I had all the other skills anyway... if I rewrite him for 5th edition I might add a Grandmaster Perk just for fun

 

But yeah, them Batman superskill types can become hideously effective quick, without a lot of points invested.

You know what would be a fun ability?

 

12d6 Telepathy, No Range (-1/2), No Mental Awareness (-1/4), RSR (PS: Play Chess) (-1/4), Results are inferential (-1/2), Extra Time (5 Minutes (-2), Receive Only (-1/2). Total cost: 12 points (60 active).

 

Basically, you sit down and play a game of chess, and after a few minutes, completely penetrate your opponent's psychology through your reading of the game. It won't tell you he has a fiance named Maureen, but it might tell you he's engaged and for how long, and how he feels about his love's personality (the Inferential limitation).

 

That's a groovy Talent/Superskill right there.

For this and your other post, consider yourself repped.

[Vondy]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

 

12d6 Telepathy, No Range (-1/2), No Mental Awareness (-1/4), RSR (PS: Play Chess) (-1/4), Results are inferential (-1/2), Extra Time (5 Minutes (-2), Receive Only (-1/2). Total cost: 12 points (60 active).

 

Change the RSR to conversation, deduction, or a perception roll, and you've pretty much built sherlock holmes.

[jtelson]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

I guess I'm also "hung up" on the description of the skill involving both skill and luck. My view: Chess ended up under Gambling through carelessness.

 

Reread the desciption. I see 'gambling games that require some skill', I see 'If characters engage in games of skill...', and I see a table of gambling games that includes chess. I don't see the word luck and randomn seems to only come up for games without skill (craps, roulette and the like), or what to do if no has the gambling skill.

[Vondy]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Reread the desciption. I see 'gambling games that require some skill'' date=' I see 'If characters engage in games of skill...', and I see a table of gambling games that includes chess. I don't see the word luck and randomn seems to only come up for games without skill (craps, roulette and the like), or what to do if no has the gambling skill.[/quote']

 

I think this is because, the way its conceptualized, "gambling" is really "gaming."

[pinecone]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Expert: Chess 3 pts

PS: Chess

KS: Chess

 

5 points min, can spend more

 

Optional ...

Analyze: Chess game +2 or more

+X w/ Play,Know and Analyze 3 each, or 2 if expert lowers cost...

 

Extra optional : Eidetic (Games:Chess -1) 4 pts, or 5 if Expert won't go..

 

so 5 to say 17 points ...I'd recomend 5 to 7 pts be spent

 

and I'd let Chess skilz work as complimentary to High society and seduction with the correct audience...

[pinecone]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

I tend to agree. I think there should have been a separate "Games of Skill" entry' date=' at least in [i']The Ultimate Skill.[/i] While there are some aspects of chance in most games; chess, go, and a few others are pure skill. It would have been useful to have a way to represent such skills in Hero without circumlocutions like "Gambling (Chess)".

 

But...people Do play chess for money....thats Gambling .....

[Trebuchet]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

But...people Do play chess for money....thats Gambling .....

People also work for money. That's not generally considered gambling.

 

While I'm sure there are cash prizes for many chess tournaments, I suspect most "professional" chess players have more ordinary "day jobs" and don't actually earn enough money to survive solely on chess winnings. Others might get paid to attend tournaments in order to attract enthusiasts (much as sci-fi conventions invite writers). My brother-in-law is a "professional" bass fisherman and a former Wisconsin state champion. He earns a reasonable amount of money with tournament winnings and endorsements every year, but nowhere near enough to live on. His real job is working as a delivery driver.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

My take on it:

 

Being able to play chess at a Grandmaster Level: Gambling(Chess): 14- or higher

 

Being a chess Grandmaster: Perk: Chess Grandmaster 1-2 pts (depending on campaign influence.

 

You can have one or the other, or even both.

 

Someone could become a Grandmaster with a Chess familiarity of 8- provided they happened to be lucky enough. So I'd link the "Grandmaster" more to a perk than to a skill.

 

TB

[pinecone]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

People also work for money. That's not generally considered gambling.

 

While I'm sure there are cash prizes for many chess tournaments, I suspect most "professional" chess players have more ordinary "day jobs" and don't actually earn enough money to survive solely on chess winnings. Others might get paid to attend tournaments in order to attract enthusiasts (much as sci-fi conventions invite writers). My brother-in-law is a "professional" bass fisherman and a former Wisconsin state champion. He earns a reasonable amount of money with tournament winnings and endorsements every year, but nowhere near enough to live on. His real job is working as a delivery driver.

 

No I mean you go to the park and play for money i.e. You both put down 10 bucks and one of you picks it up....just like playing pool for money....it's even illegal (though who the heck will bother to enforce it I don't know...) it usually "speed chess" which is really a seperate skill...

[pawsplay]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Reread the desciption. I see 'gambling games that require some skill'' date=' I see 'If characters engage in games of skill...', and I see a table of gambling games that includes chess. I don't see the word luck and randomn seems to only come up for games without skill (craps, roulette and the like), or what to do if no has the gambling skill.[/quote']

 

But chess is not a gambling game. It involves virtually no chance, and game play involves no wagers. If "rubber bananas" were listed as a category under Weaponsmith, on the basis you could hit people with them, I would still classify that as an error. I believe the entry PS: Play Chess, also in the core rulebook, is the better classification.

 

Note that the description of Gambling does not entail winning a game... it says the GM generally determins a winner by chance! Rather, a successful roll tilts the outcome and results in greater winnings. Since this description does not apply to chess play, I have game play reasons to regard this as an error, in addition to the definitional problem.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

My take on it:

 

Being able to play chess at a Grandmaster Level: Gambling(Chess): 14- or higher

 

Being a chess Grandmaster: Perk: Chess Grandmaster 1-2 pts (depending on campaign influence.

 

You can have one or the other, or even both.

 

Someone could become a Grandmaster with a Chess familiarity of 8- provided they happened to be lucky enough. So I'd link the "Grandmaster" more to a perk than to a skill.

Unless the Grandmaster title confers some real-world benefit I'm unaware of, I can't see any reason whatsoever to pay for the Perk in-game. It's merely an acknowledgment of achieving a certain level of skill and is no more significant in the civilian world than being rated Expert with military weapons in the US Army. If you look at the Perks list, they all have a potential in-game effect. What benefit would the Perk: Chess Grandmaster confer on a character that would not be conferred simply by the expertise alone?

 

11- or better is regarded as good enough to earn a living at a Skill. The only way I could regard a Grandmaster Perk being worth paying points for is if the character actually is earning his living playing chess. Otherwise it's just an offbeat Background skill or even character trivia.