Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

[Trebuchet]

What Skill(s) would you buy to make a character a grandmaster of chess. IOW, someone who is internationally rated and (at least in theory) could earn a living playing chess? Would it be KS: Chess, PS: Chess, or something else?

 

I'm leaning towards KS since it's a strictly intellectual game, but I might be missing something.

[jtelson]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

I believe Gambling has a board game subcatagory that includes Chess.

[Ocelot]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

First off, I'd say both.

 

To play chess, I'd say a PS, since it's something you do. For a specific example, look at the Champions' Defender - he has PS: Chess.

 

But, I'd say that to know about chess - the tournaments, the history, the culture, Fischer variant chess - would require a KS.

 

AND, I'd say a Grandmaster would have high ranks in both KS and PS. You don't get to be one of the best in the world of anything without a number of skills. I'd probably also require a KS: Go 8- and maybe a one point Russian Language familiarity.

 

My $0.02.

[The Monster]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

If it were my character, I'd probably take both PS and KS, and use 'em as complementary skills - the book specifically refers to one being theoretical and the other being practical knowledge. Gambling does have Chess on the list, since it's supposed to cover games of all kinds that require some skill.

To really complete the picture, a few points of Reputation, would be suitable for a truly top-rank chessmaster.

[Sociotard]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

A master has

• A Reputation
• A KS
• A PS

[Trebuchet]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

According to Wikipedia as of 2005 there were over 900 Grandmasters in chess. Unsurprisingly (based solely on names) apparently over half are Russian. So Reputation might not be needed as one more Grandmaster might not make much of a ripple in such a large group. I'm not looking to build a world champion; I'm just trying to create a reasonable background Skill for a PC for whom chess is a significant hobby. A base INT roll of 12- or so should be good enough, especially with two Overall Levels added. I'm basing the 12- Skill roll on Hero system stating that 11- allows an individual to make a living at something. According to several articles I've read, grandmaster is essentially what someone who is skilled enough to earn a living at chess is called. It's a circular argument; but I've gotta break into it somewhere. I'm sure Bobby Fisher or Gary Kasparov would be 17- or better.

 

KS:Chess seems the best base to build from; and a PS might be worth adding somewhere down the line. The PC in question is already Russian, so at least that's taken care of.

[Sociotard]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

How does one make a living at chess? You can't exactly get the Wheaties endorsement deal. Do chess tournaments just come with a large purse?

[Comic]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

It's definitely a perk to be a recognized Grandmaster. Because, after all, you're on an official list, not merely reputed.

 

I'd say it's a perk requiring 2 pts in Gambling: Board Games, at minimum a 14- roll in that, and some complementary knowledge and professional skills couldn't hurt. Reputation, too, sure.

 

Possibly some Psych Lims to go along with it, because there's a certain affinity between chess grandmasters and being nuts.

 

Lucky our game doesn't share that trend.

[Gadodel]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Use the Expert rules form Dark Champions:

PS: Chess Player

Analyze: Chess Competitor's Tactics

Deduction

KS: Chess Tactics

KS: Chess World-Other Players

Gambling

Tactics

 

Though, I've never played Chess before...these things sounded good. Kinda like making a professional poker player...

[pawsplay]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

The book lists PS: Play Chess as an example, so that would appear to be the skill to play a game of chess. Gambling does not apply, since chess does not involve chance in the usual sense.

 

KS: Chess is undoubtedly part of the repertoire. A chess grandmaster would also want KS: The Chess World, to know what's in store from a particular opponent or proteges of a particular chess teacher.

 

Lastly, let's not overlook Analyze: Chess.

 

Typical grandmaster:

INT of 12 to 15

EGO 12

PS: Play Chess, at INT +2 (5 points)

KS: Chess at INT (3 points)

KS: The Chess World at INT (3 points)

Analyze: Chess (INT) (3 points)

Reputation: Chess grandmaster, 8-, small group

 

World renowned master:

INT of 15

+2 skill levels, "Chess Grandmaster": Play Chess, Analyze Chess, KS: Chess

Raise reputation to 11- or 14-

add

Disadvantage: Reputation, among chess players, as a celebrity grandmaster's game is going to be very well known

 

The best:

INT of 18-20

Add Lack of Weakness (Analyze: Chess) -2

In the Game: 2d6 Aid to INT, RSR (Analyze: Chess, opposed by PS: Play Chess), Side Effect (mental exhaustion, -2 to INT, EGO, and PRE rolls for an hour), Only to play chess (-1)

[pawsplay]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

It's definitely a perk to be a recognized Grandmaster. Because, after all, you're on an official list, not merely reputed.

 

What exactly does it get you?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Typical grandmaster:

INT of 12 to 15

EGO 12

PS: Play Chess, at INT +2 (5 points)

KS: Chess at INT (3 points)

KS: The Chess World at INT (3 points)

Analyze: Chess (INT) (3 points)

Reputation: Chess grandmaster, 8-, small group

So for less cost as being a "garden variety" Grandmaster (one of about 900 in the world), I could be as rich as Bill Gates (15 points of Wealth), and better-liked (a +2 worldwide reputation as a swell guy on a 14-; 6 points).

 

That sort of makes me think that being a chess Grandmaster should cost less than 22 points.

[Sociotard]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

It depends on whether you value being rich and liked over the thrill of victory and showing mechanon that humans. are. superior.

 

Besides, I've never heard of death giving a guy a break because he was rich and well liked. Challenge him to a friendly game of chess, however . . .

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

It depends on whether you value being rich and liked over the thrill of victory and showing mechanon that humans. are. superior.

Sh'yeah. Like that'd work...

 

Grandmaster: "Pawn to E4."

Mechanon: "**FFZZZORRRRTTT**!"

Smoking Heap Where Grandmaster Used To Be: "..."

 

 

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Sh'yeah. Like that'd work...

 

Grandmaster: "Pawn to E4."

Mechanon: "Death to Organics2." ***FZZORT!*

Smoking Heap Where Grandmaster Used To Be: "..."

 

 

 

Tweaked, hope you don't mind.

 

Anyway, since you (apparently) can make money at it, I agree with a PS, various KSs to be used complimentary perhaps (famous Chess strategies, etc), and possibly Gambling as a topper.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Tweaked, hope you don't mind.

 

Anyway, since you (apparently) can make money at it, I agree with a PS, various KSs to be used complimentary perhaps (famous Chess strategies, etc), and possibly Gambling as a topper.

Not at all.

 

And I agree that it should be a PS, whether you can/do earn a living at it or not. A PS allows you to do something. A KS allows you to know about something. There are doubtless many chess enthusiasts out there who definitely have a KS: Chess, without having a PS: Chess at all. They know all about the classic gambits, the great players, the history, the theories of how to play various options in various stages of the game, etc. But that doesn't mean they're any good at actually playing chess. They might know a ton about chess, yet just not "get" how to think strategically or how to apply book-learning knowledge to actual game situations.

 

And of course, a person can play astoundingly well without knowing anything about theories, or history, or all that jazz. For example, from Wikipedia's entry on Paul Morphy...

In 1850, when Morphy was twelve, the strong professional Hungarian chess master Johann Lowenthal visited New Orleans. Lowenthal, who had often played and defeated talented youngsters, considered the informal match a waste of time but accepted the offer as a courtesy to the well-to-do judge. When Lowenthal met Morphy, he patted him on the head in a patronizing manner.

 

By about the twelfth move in the first game, Lowenthal realized he was up against something formidable. Each time Morphy made a good move, Lowenthal's eyebrows shot up in a manner described by Ernest Morphy as "comique". Lowenthal played three games with Morphy during his New Orleans stay, losing all three.

Does it seem likely that Morphy at twelve knew more about chess than Lowenthal? Not so much. It seems much more likely to me that Morphy was just better at executing the actual play of the game. And that sounds like a PS to me.

[pawsplay]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

So for less cost as being a "garden variety" Grandmaster (one of about 900 in the world), I could be as rich as Bill Gates (15 points of Wealth), and better-liked (a +2 worldwide reputation as a swell guy on a 14-; 6 points).

 

That sort of makes me think that being a chess Grandmaster should cost less than 22 points.

 

I think you forgot to buy Bill Gates some Skills and contacts. And don't forget... for 23 points, you can have two tractor-trailers!

[JmOz]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

PERSONALY

 

How big of an influence is his chess playing going to effect the HERO game?

 

If it might come up occasionaly, a PS and call it good, I would let it double as a host of other chess related skills like Cultural, historical, etc... with some penalties

 

CHESS HERO, the game of Chess champions: A bunch of complimentary skills, including Gambling, PS, KS (multiple), CulKS, Russian, Rep, etc...

 

Almost never, except to say your playing chess in the park when them I would call it a 0 point flavor skill

 

The points are there to represent how useful it is

[Utech]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

You get what you pay for. If you only want to be a Chess Grandmaster as an interesting backstory and believe it will never come up in the game, you pay 0 points and call yourself a Chess Grandmaster.

 

Others have given you different possibilities. Choose from among them depending on how much utility you figure you're going to get out of being a Chess Grandmaster. Talk it over with your GM and the other players involved to make sure you're all on the same page.

 

0 points, 3, 5, 22, or 225 -- you make the call.

[Sociotard]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Well, take for example Analyze: Chess, for example

 

If the hero can lure an opponent into a game, he can observe his play style and get an estimate on his opponents INT score, possible psych disads like aggressive and so forth. That could be handy.

 

Things come up in a game if you MAKE them come up in a game.

[pawsplay]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

The way I view it, a chess grandmaster NPC needs all those traits just to deal with a PC with INT 20 and PS: Play Chess (INT).

[jtelson]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

The book lists PS: Play Chess as an example' date=' so that would appear to be the skill to play a game of chess. Gambling does not apply, since chess does not involve chance in the usual sense.[/quote']

 

And yet Chess is listed with other board games under gambling.

 

So in a normal (Non Chess-o-centric) game I would probably go with

 

Gambling (Chess)

KS: Chess

Perk:Chess Grandmaster (1pt)

 

The player may also want to take Tactics, some overall skill levels (Always thinking 8 moves ahead) and an Analyse skill or two that have non chess effects to represent the fictional translation of chess skills to 'life'.

[GamePhil]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

If it's a fun background, take a PS: Chess at a decent level and possibly a FB: Grand Master (probably 1 point). A Reputation, either the Disadvantage or the Perk, if the character is especially well known. Possibly take the KS. That should cover it.

 

Gambling I always interpreted as allowing you to play the odds, not play the game. You can place intelligent bets on it based on what you know of the players, but may not even know what en passant means. I could be mistaken, however.

 

If it's a significant part of the game (or if you believe the GM will make it so, if it's not you), go for one of the higher priced suggestions. It's a good plot hook for the GM to use that will allow you to shine when it comes up.

[jtelson]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Gambling I always interpreted as allowing you to play the odds' date=' not play the game. You can place intelligent bets on it based on what you know of the players, but may not even know what [i']en passant[/i] means. I could be mistaken, however.

 

The description for Gambling includes playing against someone in addition to playing against 'the house'. Also since gambling uses the subcatagory system it creates a relatively inexpensive route to learn other games which is important because the 'being good at games' aspect of being good at games shouldn't be crazy expensive.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

The book lists PS: Play Chess as an example, so that would appear to be the skill to play a game of chess. Gambling does not apply, since chess does not involve chance in the usual sense.

 

KS: Chess is undoubtedly part of the repertoire. A chess grandmaster would also want KS: The Chess World, to know what's in store from a particular opponent or proteges of a particular chess teacher.

 

Lastly, let's not overlook Analyze: Chess.

 

Typical grandmaster:

INT of 12 to 15

EGO 12

PS: Play Chess, at INT +2 (5 points)

KS: Chess at INT (3 points)

KS: The Chess World at INT (3 points)

Analyze: Chess (INT) (3 points)

Reputation: Chess grandmaster, 8-, small group

 

World renowned master:

INT of 15

+2 skill levels, "Chess Grandmaster": Play Chess, Analyze Chess, KS: Chess

Raise reputation to 11- or 14-

add

Disadvantage: Reputation, among chess players, as a celebrity grandmaster's game is going to be very well known

 

The best:

INT of 18-20

Add Lack of Weakness (Analyze: Chess) -2

In the Game: 2d6 Aid to INT, RSR (Analyze: Chess, opposed by PS: Play Chess), Side Effect (mental exhaustion, -2 to INT, EGO, and PRE rolls for an hour), Only to play chess (-1)

I'm surprised you didn't throw in "Find Weakness: Chess defenses" for that last.

 

If I was building Chessmeister as a character I think I'd go with your approach. For a standard character just wanting to be a chess expert as a Background Skill I think it may be overkill.