Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

[pawsplay]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

But...people Do play chess for money....thats Gambling .....

 

People box for cash, too.

[pawsplay]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Unless the Grandmaster title confers some real-world benefit I'm unaware of' date=' I can't see any reason whatsoever to pay for the Perk in-game. It's merely an acknowledgment of achieving a certain level of skill and is no more significant in the civilian world than being rated Expert with military weapons in the US Army. If you look at the Perks list, they all have a potential in-game effect. What benefit would the [i']Perk: Chess Grandmaster[/i] confer on a character that would not be conferred simply by the expertise alone?

 

That's my thought. Otherwise, you have perks like:

 

High School Valedictorian

Miss Kidney Beans 2007

National Honor Society Member

MENSA member

[Trebuchet]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

That's my thought. Otherwise, you have perks like:

 

High School Valedictorian

Miss Kidney Beans 2007

National Honor Society Member

MENSA member

MENSA is a perfect example. It's not important that a person is in MENSA; what is relevant (if indeed it is) is that the person is smart enough to be in MENSA.

 

My GF of 26 years was a member of MENSA when I first met her. She quit after a year because all they did was sit around at meetings talking about how intelligent they were. IOW, they were a bunch of pretty useless gits.

[Comic]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Unless the Grandmaster title confers some real-world benefit I'm unaware of' date=' I can't see any reason whatsoever to pay for the Perk in-game. It's merely an acknowledgment of achieving a certain level of skill and is no more significant in the civilian world than being rated Expert with military weapons in the US Army.[/quote']

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1537014&postcount=32

 

Yes, and no.

 

There are 900 Grandmasters in the world.

 

There are over 900 weapons experts in most states, (and in some villages in Iraq, Iran, Afganistan, Pakistan..).

 

While rarity isn't always equivalent to quality, it certainly is suggestive.

 

I mean, Forrest Gump was a weapons Expert..

 

Of course, he was also a Ping Pong master, so maybe he's a bad example to support my case.

 

In a combat, would I rather have the perk Expert or Grandmaster?

 

It depends if the combat involves me shooting a weapon, or having used my Grandmaster status to gain access to the great strategic minds of the world beforehand and plot tactics, or glean from their recollections and speculations details of the weaknesses of the enemy.

 

If I'm making a High Society roll, Grandmaster.

 

Streetwise? Expert, likely.

 

Oratory.. Grandmaster.

 

Seduction.. Let's face it, if my character needs a big piece of military hardware to compensate for his shortcomings, he'd be better off learning chess.

 

If I'm trying to get across a border, and I'm a Grandmaster, I can call up my buddy, the Minister of Culture, and say how bad it will look in the papers that I'm being kept from a tournament because the border guards think I'm too good for the local competition.

 

If I'm trying to get across a border, and I'm an Expert, I can shoot the border guards.

[jtelson]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

But chess is not a gambling game. It involves virtually no chance, and game play involves no wagers. If "rubber bananas" were listed as a category under Weaponsmith, on the basis you could hit people with them, I would still classify that as an error. I believe the entry PS: Play Chess, also in the core rulebook, is the better classification.

 

Note that the description of Gambling does not entail winning a game... it says the GM generally determins a winner by chance! Rather, a successful roll tilts the outcome and results in greater winnings. Since this description does not apply to chess play, I have game play reasons to regard this as an error, in addition to the definitional problem.

 

A rock is not energy but...

 

That's from the section that starts "If characters engage in games of skill..." (Is chess somehow suddenly not a game of skill?)

 

And if you keep reading, A successful roll means the character won and if both players have gambling it becomes skill vs skill. Which gives me a 'Hey, if this skill was called anything else' reason to believe it's not an error.

[pawsplay]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

It's just a nonsensical description when applied to chess. Chess players don't "tilt the odds in their favor."

[jtelson]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

It's just a nonsensical description when applied to chess. Chess players don't "tilt the odds in their favor."

 

Even in games of pure skill outcome can be uncertain, so tilting the odds is a poor word choice but hardly nonsensical.

[pawsplay]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

It's only in uncertain in the sense you don't know how the game will end, yet. Each move is completely certain.

[Kenn]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

I've a duty as the referee...

At the start of the match....

On behalf of all our sponsors I must welcome you there's a catch.

 

I don't care if you play Champions...

No one messes with me.

I am ruthless in upholding

What I know is right

Black or white -- as you'll see...

 

I'm on the case...

Can't be fooled...

Any objection...

Is overruled

Yes I'm the Arbiter and I know best

 

(He's impartial, don't push him, he's unimpressed)

 

To be really good at "Chess" you need Perfect Pitch, Acting, PS: Singer and PS: Dancer would probably help too.

[pinecone]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

People box for cash' date=' too.[/quote']

 

No thats prize fighting...people play chess for prizes, and that is not Gambling. But people do gamble by playing chess, the same way they gamble playing pool, or basketball for that matter.

[pawsplay]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

No thats prize fighting...people play chess for prizes' date=' and that is not Gambling. But people do gamble by playing chess, the same way they gamble playing pool, or basketball for that matter.[/quote']

 

Gambling (thesis proposal) 11-

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

I've a duty as the referee...

At the start of the match....

On behalf of all our sponsors I must welcome you there's a catch.

 

I don't care if you play Champions...

No one messes with me.

I am ruthless in upholding

What I know is right

Black or white -- as you'll see...

 

I'm on the case...

Can't be fooled...

Any objection...

Is overruled

Yes I'm the Arbiter and I know best

 

(He's impartial, don't push him, he's unimpressed)

 

To be really good at "Chess" you need Perfect Pitch, Acting, PS: Singer and PS: Dancer would probably help too.

 

Thx ,K

I get to be The American

 

"It's the Philippines, or Hastings, or, or... this place."

[Vondy]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

No thats prize fighting...

 

Boxers dance, fighters fight. So, really, its prize dancing.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Gambling (thesis proposal) 11-

[Trebuchet]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1537014&postcount=32

 

Yes, and no.

 

There are 900 Grandmasters in the world.

 

There are over 900 weapons experts in most states, (and in some villages in Iraq, Iran, Afganistan, Pakistan..).

 

While rarity isn't always equivalent to quality, it certainly is suggestive.

 

I mean, Forrest Gump was a weapons Expert..

 

Of course, he was also a Ping Pong master, so maybe he's a bad example to support my case.

 

In a combat, would I rather have the perk Expert or Grandmaster?

 

It depends if the combat involves me shooting a weapon, or having used my Grandmaster status to gain access to the great strategic minds of the world beforehand and plot tactics, or glean from their recollections and speculations details of the weaknesses of the enemy.

 

If I'm making a High Society roll, Grandmaster.

 

Streetwise? Expert, likely.

 

Oratory.. Grandmaster.

 

Seduction.. Let's face it, if my character needs a big piece of military hardware to compensate for his shortcomings, he'd be better off learning chess.

 

If I'm trying to get across a border, and I'm a Grandmaster, I can call up my buddy, the Minister of Culture, and say how bad it will look in the papers that I'm being kept from a tournament because the border guards think I'm too good for the local competition.

 

If I'm trying to get across a border, and I'm an Expert, I can shoot the border guards.

Seems to me that logic could apply to almost any Perk and many Talents. "I'm important/unique/know people/can do differential equations in my head/have a really powerful computer/etc."

 

What specific and unique role-playing game capability would be granted by being a chess Grandmaster - a Perk one actually pays points for - that wouldn't be just as easily derived from other Perks and/or Talents? At the moment all I can see would be some sort of diffuse form of Contacts: Chess Enthusiasts; something probably better done with Contacts or Reputation.

[Vondy]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

What specific and unique role-playing game capability would be granted by being a chess Grandmaster - a Perk one actually pays points for - that wouldn't be just as easily derived from other Perks and/or Talents? At the moment all I can see would be some sort of diffuse form of Contacts: Chess Enthusiasts; something probably better done with Contacts or Reputation.

 

This would be dependent on how useful it is in a particuliar campaign. In most campaigns it probably amounts to paying points for flavor without utility, which most people don't want to do. With some game-masters, however, you just have to grin and bear it because they're nitpickers and they'll ding you.

 

I, personally, agree that contacts and/or repuation are correct within the context of "paying for utility" in most games but nitpickers might want to argue that knowing people in the chess world, and being known as a top-end player still doesn't give you official ranking / status necessary to actually participate in a sanctioned tournament.

 

The question is: will participation in a professional chess tournament come up in the game, and is the GM the sort who, having come up with such a scenario, will ding you for not having paid for the perk? There are those GMs out there who will plan an adventure that takes you out of the country and, even though it does nothing for character, plot, or anyone's but their own fun, belly laugh and ho-ho over the fact that you don't have "passport" on your character sheet.

 

Its one of those "know your GM" issues; and, if the GM expects a chess grandmaster to have the perk they should say so up-front. For a semi-professional or professional chess player it amounts to being a professional certification (license to do X) - you have to have it to participate in sanctioned matches, which is where the money is. I would include it if its what the character did for a living, but only because I like to see completness (I freq. pay for flavor in my own builds).

 

If its just a hobby skill (albeit with a high roll) I'd shrug. And then, not everyone who plays on that level cares about or has official ranking / status. You could still have a reputation (the perk) among chess masters as being one of the best chess players alive and never play in a sanctioned match. Maybe your the guy they sit down with away from tournaments and play chess with.

 

And as a GM I can find a way to use it in that context: Dr. Destroyer has kidnapped your teammates and will only release them if you defeat him at... CHESS!!!!!!!!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Seems to me that logic could apply to almost any Perk and many Talents. "I'm important/unique/know people/can do differential equations in my head/have a really powerful computer/etc."

 

What specific and unique role-playing game capability would be granted by being a chess Grandmaster - a Perk one actually pays points for - that wouldn't be just as easily derived from other Perks and/or Talents? At the moment all I can see would be some sort of diffuse form of Contacts: Chess Enthusiasts; something probably better done with Contacts or Reputation.

 

I don't see a lot of game value in being able to perform marriages either, in all honesty. That's a perk.

 

My answer, however, would be that the GM that makes the player pay 1 point for the perk now has an obligation to make it come up in play and have some value. If, instead, he requires payment of 5 - 10 points of contacts/reputation, he'd better make this 5-10 times as valuable (whether in frequency or utility or a combination of both) in actual play.

 

If he's not going to make it have some value, then he should waive it as a pure role playing item and/or sfx of other things purchased by the character.

[jtelson]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

The general advantage of the perk in a game world is cover.

Reporter 1: Excuse me Defender is there any truth to the rumor that you and the other Champions are here in Paris hunting down a Viper splinter cell attempting to aquire lethal croisant technology?

Defender: No we're here for a charity chess exhibition that I arranged with the Paris Union School District # 95. I'm a Grand master and I've been teachng the team to play.

Reporter 1: Thank you sir.

Reporter 2: Do you seriously expect us to believe that Seeker can play chess?

Defender: He likes how the horsies move. Next question.

And so on…

 

Also in game world police detectives seem to have more respect for chess grand masters than they probably should.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

If its just a hobby skill (albeit with a high roll) I'd shrug. And then' date=' not everyone who plays on that level cares about or has official ranking / status. You could still have a reputation (the perk) among chess masters as being one of the best chess players alive and never play in a sanctioned match. Maybe you're the guy they sit down with away from tournaments and play chess with.[/quote']That's all I'm looking for. She's already far too famous as a superheroine and former Olympic athlete to ever be able to play in a chess tournament incognito except online. Since I think that paying for the Perk is overkill for a hobby Skill, I'll justify not buying it by asserting that she's near the bottom of those 900+ grandmasters in skill and so doesn't quite get the recognition higher-ranked grandmasters would rate among chess aficionados. That's still going to put her in the top 1% of chess players worldwide.

 

And as a GM I can find a way to use it in that context: Dr. Destroyer has kidnapped your teammates and will only release them if you defeat him at... CHESS!!!!!!!!

I don't need the Perk for that; my GMs are already more than willing to use background skills for this kind of thing.

[JmOz]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

As I said earlier, it really depends on if/how often it will come up in a game

 

In the games I run, I would probably say either a profesional skill or gambling (not that big of a deal to me which) for the skill of play and a 1-point perk for the title, but I assure you it will come into play a couple times for the 1 point perk

[Trebuchet]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

As I said earlier, it really depends on if/how often it will come up in a game

 

In the games I run, I would probably say either a profesional skill or gambling (not that big of a deal to me which) for the skill of play and a 1-point perk for the title, but I assure you it will come into play a couple times for the 1 point perk

I'll discuss it with a couple of my GMs. I don't particularly care if it ever comes up in play since my intent is to flesh out her background a bit but I would not, of course, have any objections whatsoever if one of them finds a way to work it into a scenario.

 

Mentor managed to work Riding (horses) into our Champions game despite the fact our team had a stealth jet at the time. I have little doubt he or one of the other GMs could be as inventive with chess.

[The Monster]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Of course, being a true master of chess does qualify you to at least be a prominent henchman - which can come in handy...

 

scroll down to Kronsteen if you don't twig on the reference right away...

[Cancer]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

What specific and unique role-playing game capability would be granted by being a chess Grandmaster - a Perk one actually pays points for - that wouldn't be just as easily derived from other Perks and/or Talents? At the moment all I can see would be some sort of diffuse form of Contacts: Chess Enthusiasts; something probably better done with Contacts or Reputation.

 

All I can think of ... and it's a pretty low-powered item ... is that, due to the nature of international chess competition, he'd "automatically" have a valid visa for countries in which chess tournaments were played. Sounds pretty lame, but (for example) in a game set during the Cold War he'd already have his "papers in order" for routine travelling internationally across the Iron Curtain. But that's a stretch, and few games bother with that level of bureaucratic hassle.

[jtelson]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

In the games I run' date=' I would probably say either a profesional skill or gambling (not that big of a deal to me which) for the skill of play[/quote']

 

I flipped through 3 genre books for the Fantasy Hero, Star Hero and Dark Champions take(s) on the gambling skill (There isn't one by the way; I really thought Magic, Tech or Species would have rated a discussion of the skill) and was considering posting a question to Steve on which skill was appropriate when my wife asked me what I was doing.

 

Now, I've been playing Champions/Hero for 22 years (this month), I've been a member here for 5 years (next month), and the first question I've ever seriously considered asking Steve Long is which skill do you use for chess. This leads me to two conclusions

 

1. I really shouldn't care about this (Defender btw had PS: Play Chess because I am that pathetic)

2. It's amazing any woman ever had any interest in me, ever.

 

[Trebuchet]

Re: Chess Grandmaster - KS, PS, or something else?

 

Now' date=' I've been playing Champions/Hero for 22 years (this month), I've been a member here for 5 years (next month), and the first question I've ever seriously considered asking Steve Long is which skill do you use for chess.[/quote']22 years? N00b!

 

 

(This'll be my 25th year playing Champions/Hero.)