Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

[FenrisUlf]

Just wondering about something here --

 

A lot of comics fans love the Silver Age, or at least say that they do.

 

A lot of comics fans are also certain that the Comics Code Authority 'ruined comics'.

 

And many of those same fans who loathe the CCA and love the Silver Age seem certain that the CCA basically created the Silver Age.

 

So if the CCA created the Silver Age that so many of you love, then didn't it do some good by creating a 'censorship of context' that forced writers to avoid the cheap and easy (and usually overdone) shock tactics of today?

 

Or is it better to say that good writers will write good stories no matter what limits are set on their work?

 

I'm just hoping for some deeper insight on this than I've got myself.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

My opinion, short form: It was the comics companies who created the Silver Age. The CCA simply stated the rules under which it would operate.

[AdamLeisemann]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

Good Question. I'd say a bit of both.

 

The Iron Age tactics of today are certainly ruining many of today's comics, however, the Silver age also had a lot of tripe as well in the form of utter goofiness that some folks today would say is drug-induced (the android Captain Marvel). Thus demonstrating that Bad writers are just plain bad.

 

So, how to spell this out? Well, Good Writers are good, and they can really shine when presented with a challenge like the Comics Code.

 

Just my two-bits worth.

[Vondy]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

I think the CCA formalized the silver age, but the CCA was the result of social trends that were prevalent in mainstream American culture from the end of WWII into the early-mid 60's. The comics code was over the top, but it was essentially a crystalization of general trends. Remember that Hollywood also had some tight rules by modern standards of what they could and couldn't show during the silver screen era of the 40's and 50's. Indeed, some of the films from the mid 20's into the 30's, while being tame by modern standards, had themes that would have been considered controversial in the post WWII era. Consider that Mike Hammer, a post war hero, was considered pornographic and Spillaine was lambasted for the violence and strong innuendo in his books -but the modern reader who reads those stories would be hard pressed to find anything more than mild luridity (always wanted to make that a word ). Other detective fiction writers generally bowed to convention. It was a much more straight-laced era. And a more reactionary era. I think those factors, more than the formalization of the comics code, had more to do with forming the silver age than the comics code itself. The comic book companies sell to the public. The public was the source not only of the comics code, but the social conventions of the day. No public is in lock step - obviously spillaine had a healthy, eager adult market and was able to hit it big by ignoring convention - but overall you stay in business by playing by the rules, and in the 50's and 60's it was the parents who bought the books, not the kids/teens who read them, you had to pass muster with.

[wcw43921]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

I don't know if the Comics Code created the Silver Age, but I do think it created all those Superman stories where Lois was always trying to find out Superman's secret identity. I've seen some of the Golden Age Superman stories and they read like Indiana Jones movies on amphetamines. The Silver Age stories seemed more like warm milk in comparison--and if you want to talk about misogyny in comics, you rarely have to go farther than the way Lois was depicted in those days. With a girlfriend like her, Superman didn't need Lex Luthor for an enemy. (Lois these days is definitely better--not only does she keep the secret, she's like a full-time partner in the Never-Ending Battle. Your characters can only wish for a DNPC so devoted.)

 

But the Silver Age wasn't all badly written misogyny--it also gave us Barry Allen as The Flash, Hal Jordan as The Green Lantern, Ray Palmer as The Atom, and J'onn J'onzz as The Martian Manhunter--to name but a few. Not to mention it set the stage for the Marvel Age, which while following the Comics Code still managed to tell some really great stories.

 

While I fully believe that an artist should have the absolute right to present his work or tell his story as he sees fit, the fact is that unlimited free speech cannot make bad writing better, nor can any censorship short of book-burning silence good writing. The writer, like any artist, has the alsolute obligation to tell the story to the best of his ability. Censorship hinders that obligation--but it cannot be held responsible for an artist's lack of talent.

[bubba smith]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

My opinion' date=' short form: It was the comics companies who created the Silver Age. The CCA simply stated the rules under which it would operate.[/quote']

i concur

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

For along time I thought that the writer should have no restrictions on telling his tale but for existing ongoing characters such as comic heroes my mind is completely changed.

A little freedom is ok but the editor should reign the writer in when he goes off base. So many formally good comic writers start producing real crap once the editors heel is off them.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

While I fully believe that an artist should have the absolute right to present his work or tell his story as he sees fit' date=' the fact is that unlimited free speech cannot make bad writing better, nor can any censorship short of book-burning silence good writing. [b'] The writer, like any artist, has the alsolute obligation to tell the story to the best of his ability. Censorship hinders that obligation--but it cannot be held responsible for an artist's lack of talent.[/b]

 

Emphasis mine, and REPPED for those words.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

Another CCA-related question: didn't Bill Gaines say later in life that many of the complaints raised about the work he did in his horror comics (the infamous 'needle in the eye', other rather sadistic scenes, etc.) were "basically correct" and that "in retrospect, we went too far"? That at least is the wording attributed to him in Our Gods Wear Spandex.

[assault]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

For along time I thought that the writer should have no restrictions on telling his tale but for existing ongoing characters such as comic heroes my mind is completely changed.

A little freedom is ok but the editor should reign the writer in when he goes off base. So many formally good comic writers start producing real crap once the editors heel is off them.

 

In comics, the editor is a key member of the creative team. They provide the long term guidance for the direction of the series they supervise.

 

This was particularly so back in the 40s, 50s and 60s. Mort Weisinger, for instance, was the key figure shaping Superman in the period after the end of the 50s TV show, which was when most of the "iconic if sometimes goofy" stuff was introduced into the mythos.

 

The writers (and artists) worked under his direction. And they knew it, apparently.

[Clonus]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

Obviously that the CCA existed in this time flavoured the Silver Age. But the revival of super heroes starting with the introduction of the new Flash would have happened without it so there still would have been one. It just would have been a different Silver Age, one in which you could call a zombie a zombie and a superhero could find his best friend struggling with the evils of marijuana.

[Dr Archeville]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

While I fully believe that an artist should have the absolute right to present his work or tell his story as he sees fit' date=' the fact is that unlimited free speech cannot make bad writing better, nor can any censorship short of book-burning silence good writing. The writer, like any artist, has the absolute obligation to tell the story to the best of his ability. Censorship hinders that obligation--but it cannot be held responsible for an artist's lack of talent.[/quote']

I wouldn't say "hinder" (since, to me, that word has more negative connotations than positive ones) so much as "restrict (and force to be more creative)," at least in this particular case. The CCA forced artists & writers to not fall back on the ol' tropes of blood and gore and sex and ultra-violence, and as such (IMO) made them become better artists and writers.

[assault]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

It is possible that the CC contributed to creating the Silver Age, by virtue of making some of the non-superhero genres less viable. After all, the gap between Golden Age and Silver Age largely refers to the relative absence of superhero comics, rather than comics per se.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

I think the CCA formalized the silver age' date=' but the CCA was the result of social trends that were prevalent in mainstream American culture from the end of WWII into the early-mid 60's. The comics code was over the top, but it was essentially a crystalization of general trends. Remember that Hollywood also had some tight rules by modern standards of what they could and couldn't show during the silver screen era of the 40's and 50's. Indeed, some of the films from the mid 20's into the 30's, while being tame by modern standards, had themes that would have been considered controversial in the post WWII era. Consider that Mike Hammer, a post war hero, was considered pornographic and Spillaine was lambasted for the violence and strong innuendo in his books -but the modern reader who reads those stories would be hard pressed to find anything more than mild luridity (always wanted to make that a word ). Other detective fiction writers generally bowed to convention. It was a much more straight-laced era. And a more reactionary era. I think those factors, more than the formalization of the comics code, had more to do with forming the silver age than the comics code itself. The comic book companies sell to the public. The public was the source not only of the comics code, but the social conventions of the day. No public is in lock step - obviously spillaine had a healthy, eager adult market and was able to hit it big by ignoring convention - but overall you stay in business by playing by the rules, and in the 50's and 60's it was the parents who bought the books, not the kids/teens who read them, you had to pass muster with.[/quote']Just as an example, watch a couple of Tarzan movies from the 1930's and then from the late 1940's and 50's and pay attention to what Jane wears. You'll see she's exposing a LOT more skin in the earlier films.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

Just as an example' date=' watch a couple of Tarzan movies from the 1930's and then from the late 1940's and 50's and pay attention to what Jane wears. You'll see she's exposing a LOT more skin in the earlier films.[/quote']

 

Tarzan and His Mate (1934) contained scenes of Jane (Alledgedly Maureen O'Sullivan, but actually a body double) swimming nude with Tarzan. Supposedly, this movie was partly responsible for the subsequent enforcement of the Production Code established by the Hayes Office.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

I don't know about created or what; but I'll remind us that what, 90% of any thing is crap? I mean I often found Silver Age stuff to be stupid and infantile, utterly unbelievable and poorly thought out, told, and rendered.

Which is the problem I have with 90% of modern comics. It's just the direction of the stupidity has changed. We've gone from unbelievable hokiness to unbelievable crassness.

 

I have found great comic stories in the past and present, and some that have not stood the test of time very well, and some that have gotten "Better" as I've changed.

 

Every era has had it's winners and losers.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

I'd like to expand on a thought that Adam brought up (though it may or may not be the exact same thought he had):

 

Sometimes the greatest art is made from working within some very tight constraints. Take the 119th Psalm, for example: 22 stanzas, each consisting of 8 lines starting with the same letter of the Hebrew alphabet, and every line throughout has the same theme. Many students of the Bible consider it one of the greatest poems ever written (well behind the Song of Songs, but still high on the list).

 

By similar token many early musical compositions (by which I mean stuff from the Baroque era, and to a lesser extent the Classical era) had very strict rules that had to be followed to be considered acceptable. Yet there's a good deal of creativity to be found within those boundaries, if one knows where to look.

 

As Enforcer84 pointed out, there are winners and losers. The winners of the Silver Age are those who took the rules as a challenge, and write great exciting stories within their boundaries until moving beyond the boundaries became acceptable.

 

And, you know, I wouldn't be at all surprised if at least a couple of the super-bland stories of that era were written as a "protest statement" about the rules themselves.

 

Enforcer84 brings up another good point: the direction of stupidity has changed. Even Neil Gaiman has complained (I think I saw it in the collected "Marvel 1602," giving this as part of his reason for wanting to do this story) that writers took the "dark" feel of his writing and latched onto that aspect without making the stories good.

[Kenn]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

The Silver Age comics made the Comics Code.

[Ranxerox]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

The simple answer to your question is "Yes, the CCA created the Silver Age." At the time the CCA was made comics had largely moved away from superheroes and were showing little signs of moving back. It was the CCA that squashed horror comic and crime comics and cleared the way for the eventual return to domination of superheroes.

 

The process hampered the growth of the medium, and without the CCA comics may have seen the growth of graphic novels and their rise to semi-respectability decades earlier ... but the beloved superheroes of my youth such as Spider-Man and the X-Men probably would never have come into existence.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

The CCA did, in fact, eliminate all of EC's titles except Mad Magazine.

[Mike W]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

Just wondering about something here --

 

A lot of comics fans love the Silver Age, or at least say that they do.

 

A lot of comics fans are also certain that the Comics Code Authority 'ruined comics'.

 

And many of those same fans who loathe the CCA and love the Silver Age seem certain that the CCA basically created the Silver Age.

 

So if the CCA created the Silver Age that so many of you love, then didn't it do some good by creating a 'censorship of context' that forced writers to avoid the cheap and easy (and usually overdone) shock tactics of today?

 

Or is it better to say that good writers will write good stories no matter what limits are set on their work?

 

I'm just hoping for some deeper insight on this than I've got myself.

 

I think they kind of created each other...you couldn't have had the Silver Age without the CCA but the CCA came about because Congress was wanting to censor comic books, so the comic publishers beat them to the punch. And I never really minded the CCA. OK, so you can't show lots of gore and you can't show nudity/sex if you wanted the CCA stamp. Oh well. I'll live.

 

Yeah, I know it was more complicated than that. They didn't do certain plot lines either but really, the Silver Age CCA code wasn't any more restrictive than the television I grew up on.

[Clonus]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

Just wondering about something here --

 

A lot of comics fans love the Silver Age, or at least say that they do.

 

A lot of comics fans are also certain that the Comics Code Authority 'ruined comics'.

.

 

Unless there's a lot of overlap between the lots no great mystery there.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

Unless there's a lot of overlap between the lots no great mystery there.

 

That's just it, I've seen quite a bit of overlap.

[Clonus]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

That's just it' date=' I've seen quite a bit of overlap.[/quote']

 

Have you? Or have you see the same people denouncing both the Comics Code and the Iron Age? Because usually Bronze Age comes out on top in the polls.

[assault]

Re: Did the CCA create the Silver Age?

 

Have you? Or have you see the same people denouncing both the Comics Code and the Iron Age? Because usually Bronze Age comes out on top in the polls.

 

I'm an example of someone who likes the Silver Age, but disapproves of the Comics Code. I'm also like the founding works of the Iron Age (Dark Knight Returns, Killing Joke, Watchmen, etc), but have no time for the excesses of lesser hackwork (including by the same creators!).

 

To put it simply - the Comics Code (and its counterparts outside the US) was an unwarranted intrusion on creative freedom. (It also ended up revitalising the superheroic genre, but that was unintentional).

 

At the same time, I enjoy much of the work created after the Code, just as I enjoy much of the work from before. In particular, I enjoy a lot of the weird, wild and silly stuff of the Silver Age - the creativity and imagination that has largely vanished from the Iron Age. Much of this creativity existed before the Comics Code, of course - it didn't cause it - it just didn't stamp it out.