So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

[SteveZilla]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

True, the choice between using Knockback Rules or Knockdown Rules is a campaign setting choice. But in a high-powered campaign that chooses to use the Knockback rules, increased amounts of Knocback Resistance are not out of place IMO. Or the GM could make a House Rule that BODY is halved for determining Knockback.

 

Or that if knocback is achieved, every doubling of BODY after that point is required for achieve an additional 1" of Knockback like this:

 

Attack does 20 Body, KB Roll results in an 8, no KBR. 20-8=12. That's one inch. 12/2=6, that's another inch. 6/2=3, that's a third inch. 3/2 = 1.5 (rounds to 1), that's a 4th inch. 1/2 is less than one, so the total knockback would be 4 inches (instead of 12).

 

1 Body over = 1" Knockback

2-3 Body over = 2" Knockback

4-7 Body over = 3" Knockback

8-15 Body over = 4" Knockback

etc.

 

It really just depends upon what style of game you want, and if you want a camapign rule (and/or a house rule) to provide a benefit to everybody/everything that would otherwise need to be paid for with points. It's not like 20 points for -10" KBR is going to break a concept in a 600 point game (IMO).

[Tonio]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

Indeed - I fail to see how More Character Points will automatically equate to More Powerful Physically type situations.

 

I have a Star Hero Character approaching 250 pts, compared to a Normal they're a Low Powered Super, yet still completely human.

 

Things like KB Resistance are completely an artifact of a Campaigns Setting and Power - and not Points.

 

Yah, it wasn't "just" a 600pt campaign, it was a high powered, galactic superhero campaign.

 

I'm pretty sure the problem was overlooking KBR more than anything. We all thought "characters should be stronger than normal, have more powerful attacks, better defenses, life support, etc.", but never thought about KBR.

[captainNeda]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

Things like KB Resistance are completely an artifact of a Campaigns Setting and Power - and not Points.

 

Yep. Mass isn't though, and I think if Mass, movement and a knockback chart was used it would scale better than it does now, and still maintain the desired effect of superman being able to knock Darkseid across Metropolis as in the last episode of Justice League.

[captainNeda]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

See, at that point I wouldn't even bother with Knockback Rules at all.

 

In my opinion if you're going to use it - use it regardless of the "size of the object" being tossed around. That's The Point Of Comic Book Knockback - A bullet can throw a guy fifty feet.

 

I disagree and you can say based on context. With the exception of the Punisher super heroes don't use guns, villians do. As such bullets shouldn't do knock back. Take Batman Year 1 and Year 2 where Batman is up against a swat team or the Reaper. In both cases he gets shot without any form of knock back (granted he did break stride when shot in the leg and a through hole did slow him down). In my game I feel it is appropriate that I allow some powers to do knock back and others won't. Thor's hammer is a 40 lb chunk of unbreakable stone, likely to do Knock back, Caps shield is a 10lb unbreakable disk less likely to do KB but it's still there. Firestar's microwave energy blast (nope), while Cyclops slow moving kenetic energy blast maybe. If there was a workable system to make things do more effective and realistic KB would you use it?

[captainNeda]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

In physics there are two basic types of collisions. Elastic and inelastic. Elastic collisions are collisions where no energy is lost through the deformation of the target or projectile. An example of this would be two billiard balls colliding. They both leave the collision, with the same sum total of energy they came into it with.

 

Inelastic collisions, are collisions where energy is lost do to deformation of the projectile, the target or both. As an example imagine a billiard ball colliding with a lump of playdough. Chances are they will be stuck together after the initial collision as the energy of the collision is lost as the playdough is deformed.

 

In hero it is possible to treat every collision that does body, either to the target or projectile as an inelastic collision. A collision that does not do any body to either the target or projectile could be treated as an Elastic collision. An example of an Elastic collision would be superman performing a move through on Darkseid from the final episode of Justice League. Superman hit Darkseid and all his momentum transfered sending Darkseid flying through at least 3 (maybe as many as 6) buildings.

 

What makes elastic collisions so powerful in a game like Champions is that after a perfect elastic collision of two equal sized objects, the projectile tranfers all it's energy to the target and stops moving while the target continues on at whatever the projectiles velocity was. Again Imagine Superman doing a move through on Darkseid with 64" of flight. After a perfect elastic collision Superman will be stopped and Darkseid would be traveling at a 64" velocity.

 

Of course Knock back damage done to a target that hit's a horizontal servace couldn't work the way it is listed in FRED. Darkseid would take 64d6 and be out. To balance it segment based movement and VLF would need to be used which again is more realistic. Again this goes into another discussion as to why hero should be logrithmic or exponential, but in my mind it should be exponential.

 

In an exponential segment based movement system for here 10 points of movement would double the characters movement and add 2d6. 10 Points would be 1"/segment 20 = 2", 30 = 4", 40 = 8", 50 = 16" and so on. 60 points would be the break even point for a speed 12 character that would provide 32" of movement and 12d6 vs 30" and 10d6. I could go on but I think that would be for another discussion.

[ghost-angel]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

I really don't care about physics in my games. Especially not to that detail. So, have fun but this conversation completely misses the point of what I'm saying.

 

You're the kind of gamer I walk out on games because of. But that's me.

[NestorDRod]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

I disagree and you can say based on context. With the exception of the Punisher super heroes don't use guns' date=' villians do. As such bullets shouldn't do knock back. Take Batman Year 1 and Year 2 where Batman is up against a swat team or the Reaper. In both cases he gets shot without any form of knock back (granted he did break stride when shot in the leg and a through hole did slow him down). In my game I feel it is appropriate that I allow some powers to do knock back and others won't. Thor's hammer is a 40 lb chunk of unbreakable stone, likely to do Knock back, Caps shield is a 10lb unbreakable disk less likely to do KB but it's still there. Firestar's microwave energy blast (nope), while Cyclops slow moving kenetic energy blast maybe. If there was a workable system to make things do more effective and realistic KB would you use it?[/quote']

 

To be honest, if it involved more time-consuming calculations or chart-tracking, no.

 

It's simple. If you don't want bullets to do Knockback in your game, then just say they don't. No rules, no physics lectures, no rationalization required.

 

That's what being the GM is all about.

[ghost-angel]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

If there was a workable system to make things do more effective and realistic KB would you use it?

 

Not a chance. I'd hate Knockback even more.

 

 

You're completely missing the point of my statements. I'm kind of wondering if you're actually reading the words I write.

 

It's not that I don't like how Knockback works - it works GREAT.

 

I. Don't. Like. Knockback. Period.

 

But it's perfect. Went and saw Iron Man this week - his energy-pulsar-doodads are knocking people around left, right, and center. In fact it's a Major Point in the fight against the main villain that his "energy beam" can blow the massive enemy suit backwards a good hundred feet.

 

So not only is your lecture turning me off even more. I think it's also completely and utterly out of genre.

[Kdansky]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

Most will have come up already:

 

How Aid works. I want to have self-only-Aid which is cheaper than buying the stat!

Damage Shield is too expensive for what it does, also, cumbersome.

Life Support is way too complicated and expensive for stuff that is fluff only (living 200 years? My campaign lasts *THIS WEEK*!).

Suppress is way too good/cheap compared to drain/transfer.

Regeneration should be regeneration. 20 points minimum, +3 per +1 body per turn healed. Or so.

Figured characteristics suck (yay 6th!)

END/STUN is too expensive (yay 6th?)

KA stun lotto (I hate this with a passion!!!)

Growth being a worthless power (tied into figureds + str)

Transform is too complex/expensive

Damage Reduction being a totally uninteresting power which only produces math (75% of 27 is how much?) but has no effect that could not be solved by buying more BOD or STUN. 50% DR? Double your stun and body, that's the same, but easier math.

[Warp9]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

What I don't like about Knockback is how it doesn't scale at all.

 

A 14d6 EB is guaranteed to knock back anyone without knockback resisting abilities, regardless of whether we're talking Normals, Heroes, Superheroes, or Absurd 5000pt Superbeings. We ran into this a while ago, during a Galactic Superheroes campaign. The characters were built on 600 pts, and usually had enough defenses to withstand serious punishment, yet were being knocked back practically every hit. It rarely resulted in any damage, but it was annoying. My first thought was that you should use BODY after defenses to determine knockback... but that's broken, too. The problem is probably a perceptual one: characters that powerful should probably buy KB Resistance as well as high defenses to represent how they can just ignore smaller stuff... but since KB Resistance isn't a Characteristic, we all sorta glossed over it and forgot it. =/

 

Steel is stronger than lead. However, a steel ball doesn't resist getting knocked around any better than a lead ball, and probably not as well (given that lead is heavier).

 

High power characters who have normal human mass should send each other flying around the battle field. I just don't see the problem.

 

Of course, given that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, when a superbeing punchs somebody else, he should go flying back too.

 

Now, if those characters have some sort of flight, then it makes sense that they could use that to prevent knockback.

 

But the simplier answer is to work with lower power levels. Lower powered characters don't have to worry as much about knockback.

[pinecone]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

I disagree and you can say based on context. With the exception of the Punisher super heroes don't use guns' date=' villians do. As such bullets shouldn't do knock back. Take Batman Year 1 and Year 2 where Batman is up against a swat team or the Reaper. In both cases he gets shot without any form of knock back (granted he did break stride when shot in the leg and a through hole did slow him down). In my game I feel it is appropriate that I allow some powers to do knock back and others won't. Thor's hammer is a 40 lb chunk of unbreakable stone, likely to do Knock back, Caps shield is a 10lb unbreakable disk less likely to do KB but it's still there. Firestar's microwave energy blast (nope), while Cyclops slow moving kenetic energy blast maybe. If there was a workable system to make things do more effective and realistic KB would you use it?[/quote']

 

Maybe the goons took "Real weapon" and so use normal physics instead of comic physics?

[SteveZilla]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

This is not exactly on topic, but I had to ask...

 

... Thor's hammer is a 40 lb chunk of unbreakable stone' date=' likely to do Knock back, Caps shield is a 10lb unbreakable disk less likely to do KB but it's still there. Firestar's microwave energy blast (nope), while Cyclops slow moving kenetic energy blast maybe.[/quote']

 

"Slow moving"? What gives you the impression that it's slow? And compared to what -- a hurled 40 lb chunk of stone or 10 lb disk?

 

[ghost-angel]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

There is one complaint I really do have..

 

5E p227 has a picture of a woman that fades out as you go down, so her feet aren't even visible. I thought this was a really really cool picture.

 

She's not in 5ER. I was disappointed.

[casualplayer]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

What I don't like about Knockback is how it doesn't scale at all.

 

A 14d6 EB is guaranteed to knock back anyone without knockback resisting abilities, regardless of whether we're talking Normals, Heroes, Superheroes, or Absurd 5000pt Superbeings. We ran into this a while ago, during a Galactic Superheroes campaign. The characters were built on 600 pts, and usually had enough defenses to withstand serious punishment, yet were being knocked back practically every hit. It rarely resulted in any damage, but it was annoying. My first thought was that you should use BODY after defenses to determine knockback... but that's broken, too. The problem is probably a perceptual one: characters that powerful should probably buy KB Resistance as well as high defenses to represent how they can just ignore smaller stuff... but since KB Resistance isn't a Characteristic, we all sorta glossed over it and forgot it. =/

 

Don't feel so bad. Along with being asthmatic, 1 TURN-and-out-of-END creampuffs, the lack of KB Resistance is almost a signature characteristic of 5th Ed supers published characters. Makes my head hurt.

[Warp9]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

Don't feel so bad. Along with being asthmatic' date=' 1 TURN-and-out-of-END creampuffs, the lack of KB Resistance is almost a signature characteristic of 5th Ed supers published characters. Makes my head hurt.[/quote']

Maybe I just don't understand, but shouldn't KB Resistance be something that you buy only when it fits the character concept?

 

And how often is that ability something which actually fits a character concept?

[casualplayer]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

Maybe I just don't understand' date=' but shouldn't KB Resistance be something that you buy [b']only[/b] when it fits the character concept?

 

And how often is that ability something which actually fits a character concept?

 

One of my chief complaints about the first FF movie is that Doom was knocked around like a pinball, something that doesn't happen in the comics. If your concept involves ominous threat or imperiousness or dignity, KB Resistance is a must. Sure, pimpslap Binder to the moon but all of the Big Guys (Dr. D, Gravitar, Takafanes, Holocaust, etc.) should stand their ground.

 

People do seem to be forgetting that KAs and Martial Attacks do less KB, so a 2d6 or less KA probably isn't going to do any with a 3d6 essentially having even odds (3d6 BODY - (2d6 + 1d6 for KAs.))

[SteveZilla]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

Don't feel so bad. Along with being asthmatic' date=' 1 TURN-and-out-of-END creampuffs, the lack of KB Resistance is almost a signature characteristic of 5th Ed supers published characters. Makes my head hurt.[/quote']

 

Not to mention breaking half the rules in the book...

[Warp9]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

One of my chief complaints about the first FF movie is that Doom was knocked around like a pinball, something that doesn't happen in the comics. If your concept involves ominous threat or imperiousness or dignity, KB Resistance is a must. Sure, pimpslap Binder to the moon but all of the Big Guys (Dr. D, Gravitar, Takafanes, Holocaust, etc.) should stand their ground.

I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that there are some comics where Doom does get knocked around like a pin-ball. If he got hit by enough force, he should go flying around like a pin-ball.

 

And it still seems like you need an actual reason for KBR.

 

These reasons might not be hard to find. . . .

 

Somebody who is very threatening might also be big, which would be a valid reason for KBR.

 

And if you want to go the "dignity" route, why not stay above the fight? Let your flunkies battle it out with the opposition, while you observe and laugh. I got the impression that was more the "comic style" Doom's MO.

[Silbeg]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

One of my chief complaints about the first FF movie is that Doom was knocked around like a pinball' date=' something that doesn't happen in the comics. If your concept involves ominous threat or imperiousness or dignity, KB Resistance is a must. Sure, pimpslap Binder to the moon but all of the Big Guys (Dr. D, Gravitar, Takafanes, Holocaust, etc.) should stand their ground.[/quote']

 

Of course, these guys could be using other ways to resist knockback than KBR. Example, if you can take the hit, sometimes it is best to use either flight or STR to resist knockback.

 

50-60 STR goes a long way towards making a person an immovable object!

[SteveZilla]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

50-60 STR goes a long way towards making a person an immovable object!

 

... At the expense of being a quite easily hittable object.

[Maur]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

If it doesn't hurt, why learn to get out of the way.

[the fox]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

If a character buys a Movement Power with only 1” of movement, can he make Half Moves with it?

 

Generally, no — except for STR-based Leaping, there’s no real provision in the rules for only moving in 1/2” increments. However, the GM could allow it if he wanted to, and a Half Move of 1” would be possible if the character moved at Noncombat velocity.

 

 

Interesting FAQ answer; let me apologize in advance if this pertains to a previous conversation.

Are you speaking of a specific case as 'generally'?

haven't we, since 1982, 'allowed' a Half Move with as little as 1" of Running, the most 'General' Movement Power? In which case, a true statement would be "Generally, yes — except for..."?

Shouldn't an 'NCM for a Full Half Move' only be required for a ½ " move, 'obviously enough' ?

 

 

Base Move Half Move NCM "Attack Range" NCM, SPD 2 example w/ time to travel 1 mile

½"

NCM

1"

.75 mph

1 hr., 20 min.

1"

1"

2"

1.5 mph

40 minutes

2"

1"

4"

3 mph

20 minutes

3"

2"

6"

4.5 mph

13.3 minutes

4"

2"

8"

6 mph

10 minutes

5"

3"

10"

7.5 mph

8 minutes

6"

3"

12"

9 mph

6.7 minutes

7"

4"

14"

10.5 mph

5.7 minutes

8"

4"

16"

12 mph

5 minutes

General Movement only, refer to other rulings if certain Abilities or Powers are reduced, esp. Running, dumb ass.

 

 

Rare are the opponents who cannot move normally, yet even they can Move and Attack! Not as effective as Normals at normal movement, they require Surprise or 'Cornering' of their victims.

Such limited movement makes them 'Targets with potentially deadly attacks' to Normal Heroes, 'Target Practice' or 'Good Attacks and Defenses' for any self respecting Super-Hero.

Relentlessly They Pursue...Summoning x64 Shuffling, Groaning Zombies! Summoned Creatures require Mental Defenses so that their Not Easily Controlled in any case, no problem there! Many such 'creatures' Summoned would be 'Models of Specialized Design' with everything besides Attacks or Attacks and Defenses or Movement at minimum min-maxed effective levels, even Subject To GM's Approval or Burden!

Physical Limitation-Zombie Shuffle, Frankenstein III , 'Nascent' or Limited Machine Movement, Char./Creature with Only 1 Limb (as an arm and a leg), Anyone with minus ¾ or more limbs on the Disabled, Broken or Paralyzed Limbs Table!, with various penalties to STR and Movement, of course. (1" Base Move, 1" Half-Move) Frequently, Greatly effects Combat, NCM Travel. F,G +15 pts.

Running & Swimming 1", 0 END for Zombies, Frankenstein pays END and freq. Pushes his 1". lol

Great for huge crowds of Zombies, slowly engulfing a town. Add more Inches for fewer 'Hoardlings'.

 

 

Poor Tunneling is common (1", DEF 6-concrete wall for 20 pts.) and is a lessening of the Physical Limitation-Reduced Running at even 1" of Tunneling (abilty to hide, stealthy movement). This would be the most common occurence of a 1" Movement Power. The question is, should Half-Moves (move and attack!) even be allowed with Tunneling? For Dramatic Purposes, Yes, but what happens? Can a Tunneler Attack while 'in the wall' or 'in the floor'? Sure, he's only a hex away, but what about the 'cover'? I'd like some rules for this, Perception needed to Attack, etc. but an easier ruling is No, you need to enter an empty or allied hex, 'ending' your Tunneling and possibly negating Surprise

I'd then 'allow' an Attack, either Ranged or 'taking a step or two' against adjacent hexes, even with poor 1" Tunneling (common), since any and all Tunneling ends and 'taking a step or two' is a component of all standing HTH Attacks and is my basis for full or half DCV w/o Dodging. HTH range is limited, Surprise is Possible, acts more like 'Teleport' with Poor Tunneling being severely limited, Inch by Inch, in Combat and NCM--- doesn't need additional restriction, just definition over 3rd and 4th , sorry I don't have 5th Ed. Surely it isn't that different to all previous editions!

 

 

Unless you prefer requring 2" of movement, with more Limitations or Partial Limitations on Normal Movement, this is the best way to go, especially if they halve the scale to 1"=1m.

"Who can't move like a meter (half his height) and not be able to Attack??"

as some might imagine it is now,

"Who can't move like 1"(his height, 1 'space') and not be able to Attack??"

(STR Related Movement Reduced and/or 0" Running; i.e. Restricted Maneuvering/Move.)

 

 

haven't we, since 1982, 'allowed' a Half Move with as little as 1" of Running, the most 'General' Movement Power? Are you speaking of a specific case as 'generally'? If Leaping is your only Attack, then you have to perform a Move-By or Move-Through and enter your opponent's hex and collide? Shouldn't an 'NCM for a Full Half Move' only be required for a ½ "! move?

 

 

Tell me I'm being grossly unfair to your expertise, that I've obviously misunderstood... Also, try not to rely upon 'GM's Caveat'; Questions on movement or basic rules should have some simple, basic answers; When pointing out the 'obvious' please include a little explanation, reflecting the ease and simplicity of the basic rules. I understand the need to cite pages of the rulebook, this is much better than 'allowing something' / GM's Caveat or Burden- 'rule on as you see fit, but probably requiring...'

 

 

Tell me it's all my mistake; did you mean 'generally, Yes, but' and that you are speaking of a ½ " leap and not 'General Movement'?

 

 

Actually, since I burnt a pizza and wasted time since I'm sure a 1" Half Move is a 'Lock' preparing this ridiculous document, could I get your thoughts on the "Terrible in more ways than one" OCV Penalty for NCM Attacks?

First mentioned in 4th edition "achy-breaky" Champions; they had it as ½ OCV and ½ DCV or by Optional Table dividing Inches per Turn by SPD.

NCM Attacks are stated as ½ DCV, 0 OCV. 0 OCV makes such attacks only barely 'likely' vs. DCV 0 Opponents. NCM Attacks vs. Any Positive DCVs are geometrically, increasingly 'unlikely', becoming 'very unlikely' (5-) vs. DCV 6 or DEX 17 Agents, DNPs, etc.1 hex away. With such unlikely chances to hit, their should be a chance of inadvertently 'converting' a Move-Through into a Move-by (near miss) and of inadvertently 'converting' a Move-By into a Move-Through(ouch!), since obviously little accuracy is allowed. I'll allow it, but you have no chance to hit; would you prefer to have your eyes closed for this maneuver? Combat Skill Levels 'throw a wrench' into my calculations until you consider that worthy opponents would have comparable Combat Skill Levels, negating their effects in pitched battle.

Halving OCV might be appropriate in addition to the Standard Movement Manuever Penalty of -1 and Limiting Maneuvers to Move-by and Move-Through, which is only slightly more complicated than 0 OCV, simple, Yes! Fun and Logical?(0 OCV) No. Halving DCV is fine; no other table is required!

 

 

You might be tempted to save it for 6th edition, because even simplified (w/o optional DCV calc and table) it is a Reversal of a Previous Ruling and all previously printed 'rule sets'.Also, ½" of Leaping doesn't require any change to NCM, so leave it. Until then, here's the Conversion Rule.

Conversion Rule--- If you miss with an NCM Movement Maneuver, simply subtract 2 from your 'chance to hit' and re-roll the NCM Maneuver for the other Movement Maneuver, to show the effects of inadvertently 'Converting' a Move-Through into a Move-By (near miss) or of inadvertently 'Converting' a Move-By into a Move-Through (resulting in a collision).

So, what are your thoughts?

[the fox]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

Base Move Half Move NCM "Attack Range" NCM, SPD 2 example w/ time to 1 m.

½" NCM 1" .75 mph 1 hr., 20 min.

1" 1" 2" 1.5 mph 40 minutes

2" 1" 4" 3 mph 20 minutes

3" 2" 6" 4.5 mph 13.3 minutes

4" 2" 8" 6 mph 10 minutes

5" 3" 10" 7.5 mph 8 minutes

6" 3" 12" 9 mph 6.7 minutes

7" 4" 14" 10.5 mph 5.7 minutes

8" 4" 16" 12 mph 5 minutes

General Movement only, refer to other rulings if certain Abilities or Powers are reduced, esp. Running.

[captainNeda]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

This is not exactly on topic, but I had to ask...

 

 

 

"Slow moving"? What gives you the impression that it's slow? And compared to what -- a hurled 40 lb chunk of stone or 10 lb disk?

 

 

 

Thanks SteveZilla. Slow moving compared to a speed of light microwave blast. Most animated depictions of the optic blast (cartoons, movies and so on) allow us to see the optic blast travelling to the target. Blasters in Star Wars obviously aren't spead of light because as soon as they fired they'd hit the target. So compared to firestar's microwave blast cyclops optic blast is slow moving. It thinkg compared to Thor's hammer or Caps shield it's pretty skippy.

[captainNeda]

Re: So, what don't you like about HERO 5th?

 

I agree. Here is some fun things I learned about KB and hero games systems if it was exponential.

 

With real physcs a bullet from a high power rifle would take -70 str to lift and a velocity of about 512"/segment. If it struck a man sized target that takes 10 STR to lift, the big a difference in Mass would result in no knockback in an completely elastic collision (no energy lost do to the deformation of either the target or projectile). This bullet would bounce off the target with essentially the same velocity it struck the target with 512".

 

Now lets say the projectile was the Superman who as a projectile took 10 STR to lift and he ran into a human size target say Bizarro. In a perfectly elastic collision, because the target and projectile have the same mass the target would stop moving, and the projectile would begin moving at the same velocity the projectile had before the collision. IE if Superman was traveling at say 512" per segment, then struck a target like Bizarro, Bizarro would now have 512" of velocity and Superman would be stopped.

 

This application of real world physics would cause bullets to do no KB, but larger projectiles like most Super Hero's use would do a lot (car's, rocks, Thor's Hammer, Cap's Shield, other characters...).

 

An interesting note is that if champions movement system was changed to be exponential, where movement would cost say 10 pts to double combat velocity and increase move through/by damage by 2d6 this would simplify a lot of things. First of all lets look at the bullet example. 512" of movement/segment would be 100 pts. Now a bullet that takes -70 STR to lift moving with 100 pts of movement would logically be a 30 point attack and would do almost no KB to a human size target (aren't high power rifles 2d6 RKA's?) Also KB becomes a simple chart based on how many points of movement are involved in the relative speed of a collision. Text me later and I'll include some excel spreadsheets with the math.