Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

[Sociotard]

Large here means a character twice the size of a normal character, perhaps 12 feet tall and 1,500 pounds. Such a character can use heavier weapons than most people and has a longer reach (perhaps a full hex of persistent, inherent stretching).

 

Would you allow a player to have such a character in any fantasy games you've run/ are runnig/ are planning to run? (this all assumes the player gets the character under the point limits)

[Sociotard]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

I ask because I was dinking around with DnD 4th. I like making characters in systems, even if I never get to play them, so I started to think about what kind of DnD character I would like. I decided on Large, then specified a Minotaur Paladin.

 

That book doesn't have any Large player races (even Minotaur, which is available in the Monster Manual). As such I started thinking about how to fairly turn an existing race into a large one. I thought having Largness take up a few feat slots would work:

Feat: Latent Large Character

Effect: None

 

Feat: Large Character

Prerequisites: Latent Large Character, STR 15, CON 15, Medium Size race

Effect: Character grows to become large, and enjoys greater reach and heavier weapons.

I thought requiring two Feat slots for Large-ness was fair, but this was what I got on the DnD boards:

I'd say large characters just unbalance the party make-up.

. . .

Reach is very powerful and as a fighter you would obviously love to have it, which means every fighter would thus try and get it. Hence: too powerful for any tier feat.

. . .

Rule #1 of balance:

 

If an effect is so good that any character that meets the requirements is going to take it then that effect is not balanced.

 

Being large is such a bonus any character that has the stats will take the feat.

 

It doesn't really matter, since I'm not likely to get a chance to play the character anyway. Even so, this hadn't occured to me. Reach is that unbalancing? Really? It had never occured to me, since it's so easy to do in Hero.

 

What do you think?

[Fitz]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

It would be kind of a pain to play since any sort of indoor adventuring would be fraught with difficulty. Any normal passageway would be extremely cramped (and would thus tend to cancel out your reach advantage) and at 1500 pounds you'd be spending a lot of time in cellars picking bits of floorboard out of your clothing.

[Ragnarok]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

I would allow it. But you can be sure that he'll take a load of disadvantages related to his size.

 

Besides, just because someone is really good at combat doesn't mean they're equally good at other things.

[Curufea]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

Yep.

 

I wouldn't disallow any character if it has enough interest and backstory. And if it's okay with the other players.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

I'd allow it. Have to weigh up the advantages and disadvantages first though.

[Markdoc]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

Yep, I'd allow it (in some settings: my current game is human only, so not there). I've played a large character in a FH game myself (a half-troll). As Fitz noted, being able to use large weapons and such is offset by the fact that the world is generally not built to your size: so there's plenty of space for disadvantages.

 

In Hero system, the reach issue isn't a problem. In D&D, which is much more tactical wargame-like, yeah, I can see reach being a problem, since combined with other feats like Combat Reflexes, or Elusive Target, it allows you to dominate large sections of the board. If you want to do large size in D&D, the appropriate method is to use a monster template and adjust ECL accordingly, not try to do it with feats. A minotaur, for example is a +8 ECL creature - partly for size, partly for all it's other powers such as tracking scent, gore attack, extra STR, etc. Looking at other builds, large size seems to be +2 ECL, in general. In Hero, those are all things you buy with points, so it's a wash.

 

As an aside, I was looking at new characters for our next d20 game and my wife always complains that she gets stuck playing the Cleric while I get to play "cool sword guy". I've settled on Eldritch Disciple for me - so I think I'm gonna make a Barbarian minotaur for her. "Daisy smash puny humans!"

 

cheers, Mark

[boomer]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

In our Fantasy Hero campaign we had Half-Giant characters, Minotaurs (we had a whole campaign hook based on a Minotaur Paladin being corrupted by a Demoness), Draconians (7' 7" tall at most) and Ogier (yes our Fantasy Hero campaign was heavily influenced by Robert Jordan).

[OddHat]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

In some of my high powered fantasy games, sure. Large Guy sinks his points into stats and size related powers and brick tricks, Wizard Guy sinks his into spells, Skilled Guy sinks his into skills and martial arts.

 

In a lower powered game or one where it didn't fit the setting, no.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

I have allowed it on several occasions without issue. Like anything else, if the GM enforces the cons that putatively counterbalance the pros then it can work fine. If the GM is a softie and lets the cons slide then it can be overpowering.

[CTaylor]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

In my Fantasy Hero 101 game I had a character play a Centaur, he had 2 levels of growth. It caused him some problems and had a lot of potential difficulties but the campaign was cut off too short for most of them to show up (the cost of armor, etc).

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

Sure. Doesn't introduce significantly different problems than 'guy who goes mounted' or 'guy that uses long / ranged weapons'. We've become ingrained with smaller than human characters like Dwarves and Halflings, this is just the other end of the scale. Run a normal human in a Hobbit-sized world and you'd have the same advantages/problems.

 

Lower DCV, harder to sneak around, some places inaccessible, etc. Be sure to carry a big shield too, since you'll be the most obvious target for the enemy.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

I already allow players to be ogres, and I've been pondering adapting the Tauren from Warcraft to my campaign, so yeah, I'd allow it.

[Maur]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

Don't see why not. They worked fine when playing Dark Sun (Half-Giants) as long as the players kept in mind just how big they were. Same thing with Trolls in Shadowrun (prior to 4th Ed).

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

Yep, I'd allow it (in some settings: my current game is human only, so not there). I've played a large character in a FH game myself (a half-troll). As Fitz noted, being able to use large weapons and such is offset by the fact that the world is generally not built to your size: so there's plenty of space for disadvantages.

 

In Hero system, the reach issue isn't a problem. In D&D, which is much more tactical wargame-like, yeah, I can see reach being a problem, since combined with other feats like Combat Reflexes, or Elusive Target, it allows you to dominate large sections of the board. If you want to do large size in D&D, the appropriate method is to use a monster template and adjust ECL accordingly, not try to do it with feats. A minotaur, for example is a +8 ECL creature - partly for size, partly for all it's other powers such as tracking scent, gore attack, extra STR, etc. Looking at other builds, large size seems to be +2 ECL, in general. In Hero, those are all things you buy with points, so it's a wash.

 

As an aside, I was looking at new characters for our next d20 game and my wife always complains that she gets stuck playing the Cleric while I get to play "cool sword guy". I've settled on Eldritch Disciple for me - so I think I'm gonna make a Barbarian minotaur for her. "Daisy smash puny humans!"

 

cheers, Mark

 

"Bossy" would also be a good name for a female minotaur.

 

Oh, and to answer the question this thread is asking, I would allow it for Fantasy Hero. For a tactical skirmish wargame, where role-playing situations are few and far-between, I can see how it might be considered unbalancing.

[Ternaugh]

Re: Would you ever allow a Large character as a PC?

 

Had a player in my last game, who played a shaman. His character had the ability to take on the aspects of a cave bear, including growing extremely large. His weapon of choice in this form was a large club. My only issue was remembering to adjust encounters to provide a person or two that could damage him at range to balance out his reach and his massive (Normal Damage) attack. He burned through END like you wouldn't believe, so it was a trick that he could only do for a short time.

 

If I allowed a PC to be permanently large, I'd probably have to play up the normal difficulties, like fitting in buildings and the like. I'd probably also figure that warriors would be better versed in fighting a large opponent, and adjust tactics accordingly.

 

JoeG