How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

[LordGhee]

A player in my game shot off his load of arrows in an encounter.

 

this follows

 

player: " I make more arrow tonight"

Gm: " what?, you do not have any blanks"

player:"that OK I have the bower skill and I go out and cut up some trees and make arrows"

Gm: " that like weeks and the wood needs to be season and (realizing that game time was not the time) never mind'

Player ' I need season wood. OK I can cut up a staff and

GM: "we will worry about it later"

 

So what dose it take to make an arrow and a bow spell out in steps and time

The player will argue with me so help

 

 

 

Lord Ghee

[Fitz]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

Assuming you have arrowheads available, appropriate feathers for flights, a source of canes for shafts, and resources for straightening the shafts and boiling glue etc. you can pump out arrows pretty quickly. Using a production-line system in a properly-appointed workshop with glueing jigs and so forth I can pump out a few dozen a day without going hard-out.

 

If, on the other hand, you're out in the piney woods without access to the workshop, a day's hard work might get you half a dozen shafts flighted if you're lucky, and the chances are pretty good that they're not going to fly straight because the shafts are wonky and the flights have been attached off-kilter.

 

Having a skill as a fletcher doesn't magically give you the equipment you need for mass-production in the wilderness. It's true that you don't need a lot of equipment just to make arrows, but without it the job gets a lot harder.

[Curufea]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

I don't think using a staff or other already seasoned or treated wood is particularly helpful for arrow making either - unless you have some kind of portable lathe with you. Otherwise they'll never fly straight (unless you have magical whittling powers or something).

[Vanguard00]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/prehistory/ancienttech/arrow_making.html

http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/longbow/make-arrow.html

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Bow-and-Arrow

 

And, if those don't work out for ya:

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=making+arrows&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[Curufea]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

Nice referencing there.

[SuperPheemy]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

When confronted with these questions I as GM consider the following..

1. How many arrows do I think the character will need to

a. Be effective in most of the upcoming encounters and

b. not take the ammunition for granted.

2. How important is it to the adventure that the character be distracted by running low on ammo?

 

In the case of point 1, I want the *player* to have fun. After all, if the character is an archery type, then shooting arrows is a big part of that fun. Don't scrooge too much with ammo. By the same token, if the character is being foolish with shooting arrows at every shadow and open hole in the ground "just in case", they run out of arrows pretty quickly.

 

In the case of point 2. Sometimes it is dramatically appropriate for the archer to be conscious of how many arrows are left. An easy way to build dramatic tension is to make clear that *every shot must count* because the character is down to less arrows than foes. But don't overuse the schtick, or it loses it's value as a narrative tool. If the situation really isn't critical and the player wants the quivers full, let 'em.

 

"You spend the day salvaging and making more arrows, by nightfall you're back to having full quivers." If you're pressed for solid numbers, I usually fall back on 24. Two dozens are more than enough for two or three encounters provided some time is taken to recover what spent arrows remain usable.

[Vanguard00]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

I can't help but think of the line from Edward Longshanks in Braveheart:

 

"Not the archers...Arrows cost money. Use up the Irish. Their dead cost nothing."

 

As near as I can tell by glossing over some medieval sites, the archer was typically issued 20-24 arrows for battle, with more made available as needed. Otherwise it was rare for an archer not in combat to have more than 10.

 

Arrows cost time and money to produce. Without either in sufficient quantity it becomes necessary for the GM to impose penalties on the OCV of the archer and/or the damage the arrow does. Glue, goose feathers, good birch or pine for shafts, steel or iron heads and twine and/or glue to hold 'em in place...I would impose a minimum of -1 OCV on every area skimped, and possibly a - 1 DC, as well.

 

A more reasonable expectation would be to allow the bowyer to cut and treat wood one time, make feathers (flights) another, and even arrow heads yet another time, then be able to say, "Time to put some arrows together". To have him do it all at one time within days or even hours is highly unrealistic to the point of impossible.

 

Assuming the wood shafts are made and treated already, I'd allow 2 arrows per hour plus 1 for every 2 by which he makes his roll (-2 off roll is another arrow, and so on). A failure on the roll means he screwed something up (the glue on the fletching didn't dry properly, the arrow heads weren't secured, etc), but I'd still allow a roll every hour.

 

But yeah, there's a reason why folks always tried to salvage arrows after a battle.

[LordGhee]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

A Family in England made the family fortune on suppling King John crossbow Quarrels during the Baron's war. the number I remember is 1,000,000 bolts.

 

Seiges seem to have eaten up a lot of ammo.

 

thanks for the help.

 

Lord Ghee

[Bloodstone]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

http://www.primitiveways.com/arrow_straightening.html

 

(plenty of other good archery related stuff on that site)

[LordGhee]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

so as a start

 

One day to gather the correct wood and size it from the area.

 

One day to fire straighten the arrows.

 

bundle the arrows and allow to dry 1 to 6 months (1 month in desert heat to 6 months in European north climes).

 

one day to peel off bark and fire staighen again. (lath will help hear?)

 

one day to trim to length and add arrow heads (need saw and arrow heads)

 

one day to fletch shafts (need glue and thread and feathers)

 

If one has a lab then you can do eighty arrows a month your self

 

 

what is intresting 6 people working together will only put out 480 a month with a 6 day week. (so doing one thing must speed that up maybe 50% more?

 

Lord Ghee

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

So would you build a woodchuck as a follower or a focus?

 

 

what?!

[shadowcat1313]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

it depends on the strength of the woodchuck and if the wood hes chucking counts as aerodynamic? and does he get a bonus for a running throw like a caber toss?

[Yamato]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

I took a look at the refernece tables given in the "Armourers' Companion" for Chivalry & Sorcery: The Rebirth (4th ed.) They give the productin times as 2 days for 20 arrows of quarrels or any type ( but that assumes that the maker has a proper shop with the correct equipment to make said items. If not, then I'd personally give the player the ability to make up to 6 if they made their Bowyer & Fletcthing skill roll. But that's me personally with no knowledge of how to do such things myself. If I remember to ask on Sat, I'll be over at a local Ren Faire here in NJ & I know that 1 of the merchants who'll be there actually makes a living producing bows, arrows, & such equipment for a living & ask his opinion. I figure that he knows what he's talking about on the subject as he makes really beautiful stuff & can also shoot in the expert level of the sport.

[jtelson]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

I think I would have come at this from a different perspective.

 

I would run through a quick checklist of questions

 

How realistic is the campaign overall?

How much importance does your group place on tracking resources?

How much importance do you place on your players tracking resources?

Would it improve the campaign, harm the campaign or have no effect on the campaign for arrows to be easily available at little or no cost?

Would it improve the archer player's experience, harm the archer player's experience or have no effect on the archer player's experience for arrows to be easily available at little or no cost?

Ditto for the other players' experience.

 

The quick answers to these would let me know if I cared about the player making arrows 'on the fly'. If I don't care then I'd make a quick ruling; something like (Success = 1 Arrow + 1 arrow per 1 roll made by assuming working in the evenings, x4 if spending all day at it all; predicated on being in an area with birds and wood).

If I did care, see above responces.

[Yansuf]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

If you want a realistic answer, ask this question on a SCA site.

[jtelson]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

If you want a realistic answer' date=' ask this question on a SCA site.[/quote']

 

That'll get you 5 different answers all of which claim to be realistic that all disagree with each other; Not at all like here, fun to watch though

[Curufea]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

I don't equate SCA with historical accuracy, "my lord"

[Captain Obvious]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

I would expect, though, with a question like this, an SCA member wouldn't pull the answer from as deep in his butt as the average person...

[Curufea]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

Hope, maybe. I gave up on expect and the SCA a while ago.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

some things about the SCA are closer to historically accurate than others, my specialty was heraldry, and it tended to do at least a decent job of trying most of the time. one thing about historical accuracy and the SCA, when you try and blend a bazillion different cultures from just as many time periods, its going to be hard to maintain accuracy in a lot of cases.

 

 

lets talk about the fact that there 200+ distinctly different crosses documented for the period of the SCA, the Swastika is a cross, but not allowed for SCA use, the Hindu version is also not allowed for SCA use.

[Curufea]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

It's making history fun that is the main problem with looking to the SCA for accuracy. A fair bit of compromise is made towards accessibility for the average punter.

There are more likely to be history people in the SCA, but it isn't a qualifier. I'd rather talk to friends who studied history or did a PhD in an applicable field - than to ask the average SCA person.

[Yamato]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

Well, I talked to my contact this weekend who has a business making traditional archery equipment about the number of arrows that can be made. He statted that in a 10 hour day he could personally (with modern equipment & all the necessary parts) turn out about 200 arrows in that time. But that's if he did nothing else that day. He suggested that if the maker had the peoper equipment & available blanks, then he coudl probably turn out (if he worked all day at it exclusively) make a couple dozen. If he had to go search for feathers (for fletching), wood blanks (for arrows) or used deadfall wood or cut green brancjes than he could probably get 6 to 8 in a day & the penalties for accuracy with such improper means should reflect a fairly large penalty for accuracy when used.

As for the SCA, I've been a member since 1972 & have found that the level of accuracy in historical research in the SCA depends on who's doing the research & what their particular axe is to grind. Compared to groups like the Company Of St. Michael or the Schola St. Michale, the SCA doesn't have any sort of histroical accuracy, Comparedc to some of teh other medival reenactment groups (Pentwyvern, as 1 example), then the SCA is fairly good about historical accuracy.

From what I've heard about the SCA in Lochac (the Australian chapter), I'm not surprised that Curufea had problems with the SCA. Of course, I do remember about the surprise when a group of SCA members for Lochac came to Pensic 1 year & thought they had the most wonderful black cat with white stripes that they had found near their encampment & had fed over the course of a few days. Boy did they get a surprise when they suddenly discovered what their "kitty" actually was.

[Curufea]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

SCA is only a part of the Living History movement in Australia - there are many re-enactment clubs for many time periods.

[shadowcat1313]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

I would agree about accuracy and axes to grind etc... the first king of the middle[Cariadoc of the Bow] has a great website about period cooking and recipes. Cariadoc was also the king who declared war on himself and lost. I heralded a local court for Cariadoc years ago after the regional herald lost her voice during the day.

 

he was king of the middle when he declared war on the East, then his job moved him to the east, and he was king there when the first pennsic happened.

[ParagonAlpha]

Re: How many arrows can an arrow maker make?

 

The answer to the main question is simple.

 

He can make as many arrows per day as you, the Game Master, tell him he can. If he says that this answer is not a realistic answer, point at the rule book, dice, miniatures and character sheet and remind him that he is playing a game.

 

Or if he wants something more tangible tell him to make a PS: Bowyer/Fletcher roll and he gets 2 arrows for every 1 he makes the roll by per day.

 

If he still argues hand him his hat and coat and show him the door.

 

But then again I'm the kind of person who thinks arguing with the GM is deserving of a an UNinvitation to a game I'm running. Discussion with a GM about a problem or concern on the other hand not only keeps you at the table, will probably get you closer to what you want.