THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Alcamtar]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Dragons as personifications of evil. I always liked the idea of dragons as "greed elementals" (explaining the treasure hoards!) I was fascinated at the treatment of dragons in Ars Magica.

 

Dragons as elemental forces.

 

Mythological symbolism of dragons in various cultures.

 

Mini-dragons (Pern books, faerie dragons, pocket dragons, etc)

 

Dragon-riding, raising a dragon from an egg, fighting from dragonback.

 

Demi-dragons: wyverns, dragon turtles, draco-liches, serpents, monstrous dragons as big as mountains, etc.

 

Speaking of which, how about those giant serpents of various varieties like those ones Conan was always wrestling with.

 

Oh yes: dragon-related equipment (armor, swords of slaying, etc), dragon-slayer martial arts packages, jousting from dragonback, maybe some dragon spells, and of course evil dragon cultists. And some adventure seeds.

 

Also a modest bestiary of ready-to-use dragon variants.

[Guest Admiral C]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I don't know if anyone has approached it from this angle but how about a creature, we'll say Draconic, whose existence is a vector for several other monsters? kinda like the old D&D Deepspawn

 

We start with the base creature, we'll call if the Verminwyrm. The Verminwyrm by itself is a dragon with a lifespan comparable with other dragons, he's tough, he's mean, and intelligent enough to cast spells. The Verminwyrm is a corruption based dragon, possibly the worst mix of dragon and insect that is not a true dragon but through magic created the race. The Verminwyrm knows that it is more abhorred than most dragons because of its effects on the countryside.

 

The Verminwyrm's presence causes the surrounding countryside to become wetter and have larger dips in cold and heat during the appropriate times of the year. I.e. the are around a Verminwyrm's lair would be hotter and more humid and in the summer and colder with more instances of sleet in the winter. Overall rainfall is also increased and similar weather effects involving excessive moisture, like fog, increase too.

 

This would be built like a simple Change Environment with the Explosion Advantage on it. The Explosion Advantage simulates that the Change Environment doesn't just stop but tapers off. The weather effect is the Verminwyrm's curse as a lesser creature ascending to dragonhood (possibly involving the wrath of a Dragon God). But the the Verminwyrm's danger is not just in it's gloomy countryside and miserable living conditions but rather the corruption everything the Verminwyrm touches creates.

 

1) When the Verminwyrm lays eggs sometimes these eggs will be the Verminwyrm's own eggs but sometimes eggs of other creatures that may have survived in it's digestive track undergo a metamorphosis and come out with the rest of the eggs, these are called facade eggs. The eggs are all sickly, misshapen and mottled in color. The only thing they share is the size of draconic egg and part of the metamorphosis makes the facade eggs match the others in size and general appearance. The Verminwyrm's real eggs hatch long after the facade eggs hatch. The Verminwyrm can give

birth to giant centipedes, mutant tapeworms, and monstrous spiders like this.

 

2) The egg fragments themselves are dangerous as any creature that eats them develops a massive hunger that can't be sated easily. What's more they begin to take on characteristics of the things they eat. The more of a given substance they eat, the more like it they become. A rat under these effects eating a centipede might be able to crawl on the ceiling or develop a poisonous bite. A group of rats that feast on a fallen man may become full sized rat men.

 

3) The Verminwyrm sheds, but unlike other dragons this skin has strange qualities. A Verminwyrm's shed skin sometimes animates itself and attempts to feed on the surrounding countryside. Filling itself up with meat and

vegetation it attempts to turn itself into a giant compost golem. Skins that stay in the lair or devious opponents as they can flatten themselves against floor and ceiling, move through cracks and twist and bend to get at their

opponents. Basically they have a limited Desolidification and Stretching.

 

4) Verminwyrm's have a far higher chance of coming back as undead, specifically their heads and spines which they appear as a skeletal worm or naga with a draconic head.

 

5) Especially old Verminwyrm's often have their left eye glaze over and calcify. When they transformation is complete the eye bursts from the socket and flys away with the angry Verminwyrm chasing it. The eye knows all of the magic the Verminwyrm did and has its own agenda.

 

The eggs and the skin have other uses as well. The eggs and the skin can be used in some alchemical work and the kin can also be used to create a suit for ghosts to inhabit.

[The Main Man]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Might as well make it "The Ultimate Dragon."

 

No wait, even better, Ultimo Dragon!

 

[D. Guss Tibus]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Theres a sea-story about ship landing on an island only its a critter and it sinks and all the sailers but one die. I'd like that wrote up in the book.

[Korvar]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Theres a sea-story about ship landing on an island only its a critter and it sinks and all the sailers but one die. I'd like that wrote up in the book.

 

Yeah, and in general, some idea of how to deal with beasties so big they're part of the environment... or the whole environment.

[Curufea]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Yeah' date=' and in general, some idea of how to deal with beasties so big they're part of the environment... or the [i']whole[/i] environment.

 

Such as the Troll in the Colour of Magic.

[Guest Admiral C]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Yeah' date=' and in general, some idea of how to deal with beasties so big they're part of the environment... or the [i']whole[/i] environment.

 

Like the temple on Cronos's back from the first God of War Game or Atlas from the second.

[D. Guss Tibus]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Such as the Troll in the Colour of Magic.

 

The Light Fantastic.

 

"Old Grandad" was the one mistaken for a hill.

[Curufea]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The Light Fantastic.

 

"Old Grandad" was the one mistaken for a hill.

 

Sorry, I was referring to the movie there, rather than the books

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What I'd especially like to see is that the ecology is taken into consideration. A dragon is the top large-prey predator in a huge area; other such predators, especially 'animalistic' ones, are going to either be dragon food (as the dragon kills them to eliminate the competition), fled, or few in number. Intelligent predators, including humans, are going to have to adapt.

 

The other thing I'd care to see is a realistic dragon -- see the 'How many Dragon's teeth adorn YOUR shield?' thread for my thoughts on this. But in no wise, if they're intelligent or not, should dragons or other top threats be even so mild as 'difficult' kills...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Theres a sea-story about ship landing on an island only its a critter and it sinks and all the sailers but one die. I'd like that wrote up in the book.

 

Try this: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/myth/dragons/fastitocalon.html

[D. Guss Tibus]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Sorry' date=' I was referring to the movie there, rather than the books [/quote']

 

Movie?

 

They made a movie out Colour of Magic?

[L. Marcus]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Yes. Yes they did. I wonder if it's any good . . .

[Ed Coll]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would like to see a discussion of how dragons manage to fly. Is it innate magic? A spell they learn? Are they full of hydrogen? Or is it that the laws of physics are different?

[JmOz]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would like to see a discussion of how dragons manage to fly. Is it innate magic? A spell they learn? Are they full of hydrogen? Or is it that the laws of physics are different?

 

They eat a stone, that releases hydrogen as it digests, the gas is kept in airsacs which like a modern zeplen allows for lift while the wings allow for navigation and a bit of thrust

 

This also explains how they breath fire, you see in the back of their throats is basicaly something similar to an electric eal, that releases electrical sparks, when they release the gas in their airsacs it is ignited allowing them to breath out fire.

 

What did you never see "Flight of Dragons"?

[Lucius]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

If a Dragon has human-level or higher intelligence and is not just an especially large and powerful animal' date=' then then the Dragon has some sort of culture or society. [/quote']

 

I think this is a non-sequitur. It is certainly conceivable that a creature could be both highly intelligent and solitary in nature, coming together only to breed (not necessarily even to raise young.) See Joel Rosenberg's The Sleeping Dragon for example.

 

 

It's easy enough to vary the standard to have lightning breath and resistance to electricity rather than using the fire the stock dragon comes with - we don't need a separate writeup for each colour.

 

In fact we don't need Gygax's color coding system at all. Please, no. I don't want dragons color coded for my convenience.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Introducing the Pink Palindromedary with Purple Polka Dots and it's Breath Weapon of Extreme Silliness.

[Ed Coll]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

They eat a stone, that releases hydrogen as it digests, the gas is kept in airsacs which like a modern zeplen allows for lift while the wings allow for navigation and a bit of thrust

 

This also explains how they breath fire, you see in the back of their throats is basicaly something similar to an electric eal, that releases electrical sparks, when they release the gas in their airsacs it is ignited allowing them to breath out fire.

 

What did you never see "Flight of Dragons"?

 

Yes, I have read The Flight of Dragons. I'm afraid you misremember an important point: they dissolved part of each vertebra, which grew continuously, to get the hydrogen.

 

It's been awhile since I read it, but I'm not sure the vented-off hydrogen was ignited electrically.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think this is a non-sequitur. It is certainly conceivable that a creature could be both highly intelligent and solitary in nature' date=' coming together only to breed (not necessarily even to raise young.) See Joel Rosenberg's [u']The Sleeping Dragon[/u] for example.

 

Conceivable? Yes. That we're conceiving of dragons at all makes it conceivable. Still, even 'near-total solitary' says something about their lack of society -- and, in my mind, the Shadowrun 'great dragon conclave' (I believe Forgotten Realms had something similar, and first) is an excellent example of what 'solitary' dragons could have, and why.

 

Wabjalagh: 'Hi. I'm an incredibly old, intelligent, powerful, large, clever, and mean flying creature. I can wreck a city all on my own if I really put my mind to it.'

Distafalal: 'Why, so am I. ... so, uh, what do we do now?'

W: 'We fight, of course.'

D: '.... why?? Your territory or mine??'

W: '.... good question. Uh ...'

 

If you have the ability to wreck dozens of square miles a day just by breathing hard, and yet there are no protocols for interacting with your fellow Mighty Beings on a non-physically-violent level, there's going to be an awful lot of scorched earth around. Even basic societal strictures are almost a requirement. Even for Rosenberg, and IIRC, he had them...

[JmOz]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Yes' date=' I have read [i']The Flight of Dragons[/i]. I'm afraid you misremember an important point: they dissolved part of each vertebra, which grew continuously, to get the hydrogen.

 

It's been awhile since I read it, but I'm not sure the vented-off hydrogen was ignited electrically.

 

Movie was probably different from the book.

[Spence]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Movie was probably different from the book.

 

 

If it was a Follywood movie it probably had nothing to do with the book except the title

[JmOz]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

 

If it was a Follywood movie it probably had nothing to do with the book except the title

 

It was a made for TV animated movie, really well done actualy for mid 80's

 

Basicaly guy from modern new york gets transfered to save the realms of magic, get's stuck in the body of a dragon, epic adventure type storyline to get the crown of an evil mage to save the princess, save magic, save the world...

[sbarron]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Steve, I hope you can avoid including too many dragons, godlings, demons, and giants. While there should be a few, as is fitting a book like this, these have all been so done that I don't see much value in including too many of them. Also, I'd like to see more unique monsters...things that don't reproduce much (if at all). Monsters that inspire the imagination.

 

Shelob from LoTRs is the kind of monster I'd like to see in this book. Not Shelob, per se, obviously. But new and unique monsters that are ancient, mysterious, and evil beings that have lurked on the fringes from time immemorial.

 

Scylla and Charybdis are also good examples.

[Spence]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Steve' date=' I hope you can avoid including too many dragons, godlings, demons, and giants. While there should be a few, as is fitting a book like this, these have all been [u']so[/u] done that I don't see much value in including too many of them. Also, I'd like to see more unique monsters...things that don't reproduce much (if at all). Monsters that inspire the imagination.

 

Shelob from LoTRs is the kind of monster I'd like to see in this book. Not Shelob, per se, obviously. But new and unique monsters that are ancient, mysterious, and evil beings that have lurked on the fringes from time immemorial.

 

Scylla and Charybdis are also good examples.

 

 

I agree but with a qualifier. I would rather see more usable beings/creatures than cool examples that will never see play

[Steve Long]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Let me be clear on a couple of points:

 

1. If it's called The Book Of Dragons, you can daggone well be sure there are going to be a lot of character sheets for dragons. Otherwise we'd have to change the title. Without the dragon character sheets, there's no book; there's not enough material otherwise.

 

OTOH, there aren't really any demons, godlings, or giants at all, at least not in the sense I expect you're thinking. For the non-dragons I tried to be a bit more imaginative; I'll leave it up to you to decide whether I succeeded for you.

 

2. I agree with the concept of "usable" in a broad sense, which is one reason for the large number of dragon character sheets (it makes the book easier for the GM to use, IMO). However, one person's "usable" is another person's "unusable," so my goal is to create big ol' monsters that I think are cool, fun, and inspirational. If you don't consider them "usable" as-is, I'm sorry 'bout that, but I'm not writing the book just for you. Fortunately, the HERO System makes it an easy matter to adapt a monster to fit your specific preferences, play style, or players. Honestly, there are so many different campaigns out there, and so many play styles, that I expect few gaming groups use any book we publish 100% as-is. The trick is to make as much of the book as possible useful to as many people as possible.

[sbarron]

Re: THE BOOK OF DRAGONS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

OTOH' date=' there aren't really any demons, godlings, or giants at all, at least not in the sense I expect you're thinking. For the non-dragons I tried to be a bit more imaginative; I'll leave it up to you to decide whether I succeeded for you. [/quote']So long as you actually made monsters, and not misunderstood creatures with hearts of gold, I'll be happy.