bubba smith Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 in the cliques mentioned in teen champions which clique would a martial arts student fall into jocks because its an athletic skill or geeks because its a subject for study? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version The classic outsider, who would be lumped into the 'assorted geeks, nerds, and etc.' but the in-cliques, but probably not part of any the geek/nerd cliques, unless he had another interest (chess, RPG's, computers...) that made him part of one of the geek/nerd cliques. The martial artist falls out of the classic 'jock' clique because his extensive training - well beyond that for any normal sport - would mark him as 'weird' to the jocks. And for the classic 'jock,' 'wierd' equals 'inferior' - even after the MA beats the whole football team into the ground a couple times, because that's what steriotypical jocks do. Having said that, there's no reason a MA couldn't transcend the cliques and have a broad appeal to many different people. Since many MA styles teach a certain amount of meditation and transcendance into the art, this certainly wouldn't be totally out of the question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version "Oh, he's very popular Ed. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, waistoids, dweebies, dickheads - they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude." - Ferris Bueller's Day Off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version in the cliques mentioned in teen champions which clique would a martial arts student fall into jocks because its an athletic skill or geeks because its a subject for study? "It depends". First of all, does the MA compete for the school? If so, they might be accepted as jocks. (There were wrestlers at my school who would fit in this category). Second, are they macho tough guys? I would imagine that known boxers, tai kwon do students and so on might be tolerated by the "true" jocks, although possibly as something of an inferior variety. (Are tennis players jocks?) On the other hand, the stereotypical serious MA student probably wouldn't be. They'd be defined by their other attributes, typically as a geek or someone weirder. An alternative approach: watch The Karate Kid. The hero is a geek. The bad guys are jocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version I'd be more inclined to think jock, because geeks study books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version in the cliques mentioned in teen champions which clique would a martial arts student fall into jocks because its an athletic skill or geeks because its a subject for study? So's football. But that's not the dividing line. He's a jock if he participates in school athletics, something he could excel at with minimal effort. Otherwise he isn't. But not being a jock doesn't necessarily make one a geek. The Fonz for example developed into being a super-martial artist as he took over the show but he was never a jock or a geek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted January 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version "It depends". First of all, does the MA compete for the school? If so, they might be accepted as jocks. (There were wrestlers at my school who would fit in this category). Second, are they macho tough guys? I would imagine that known boxers, tai kwon do students and so on might be tolerated by the "true" jocks, although possibly as something of an inferior variety. (Are tennis players jocks?) On the other hand, the stereotypical serious MA student probably wouldn't be. They'd be defined by their other attributes, typically as a geek or someone weirder. An alternative approach: watch The Karate Kid. The hero is a geek. The bad guys are jocks. 1 he would if he was offered a chance 2 he's no braggart but he can hold his own when needed you mean like a combination jock-geek? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version Geeks 'study' anything considered esoteric or outre. Jocks are part of the schools athletic culture... Wrestling is a school sanctioned sport, and thus accepted. A wrestler would be a jock... A practitioner of one of the Asian arts, if he also was a respected member of the school's athletic teams, would be a jock -- but it would help if he practiced one of the more commonly known arts... However, a kid who is not a part of the school's athletic program, has learned how to count to ten in Japanese/Korean or dances around in silk pajamas is probably going to be considered a geek. How much hassle he gets is going to depend on whether or not he's also kicked anybody's butt around the parking lot after school -- and many martial schools teach discipline and self-restraint... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version That's the other thing about stereotypical jocks. They tend to be an 'exclusive' group. The same 20 or so guys are on all the sports teams, party together, and are generally buds. I can't see a dedicated MA spending that much time 'partying' (i.e. getting drunk) and such. Which means they aren't part of the group, and therefore get lumped in with the other geeks who don't party...\ It probably wouldn't matter if he was on the team, or the cornerstone of the team; if he doens't party and socialize with them, he's an outcast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version I would tend to think they'd fall more into the geek side of that equation (with the exception of the wrestling team jocks), but it would vary according to individual personality. Many would fall into neither group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version An alternative approach: watch The Karate Kid. The hero is a geek. The bad guys are jocks. This was the first thing that popped into my head as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version That's the other thing about stereotypical jocks. They tend to be an 'exclusive' group. The same 20 or so guys are on all the sports teams' date=' party together, and are generally buds. I can't see a dedicated MA spending that much time 'partying' (i.e. getting drunk) and such. Which means they aren't part of the group, and therefore get lumped in with the other geeks who don't party...\[/quote'] This depends on the degree of "dedication" involved. Basically, there's Macho Guy Martial Arts, and there's the hippie kind. The former is quite compatible with partying, while the latter isn't. Once again, see The Karate Kid for the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Gridlock Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version I think it really depend on how he carries himself. If he's inward-looking, he would probably end up with the geeks. But if he's confident, outgoing, etc. he could very well end up in any group. Sometimes the jock group is specifically reserved for the school sport (or at least the one that's deemed the major sport). At my high school this was football, even though we also had tennis, wrestling, and volleyball. I would really boil it down to the kid rather than the martial art. If he's like the Karate Kid, then geek. Hell, he could be one of the popular kids if he's good looking and confident. It's all about who he is. And that doesn't discount who he wants to hang out with, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version So's football. But that's not the dividing line. He's a jock if he participates in school athletics' date=' something he could excel at with minimal effort. Otherwise he isn't. But not being a jock doesn't necessarily make one a geek. The Fonz for example developed into being a super-martial artist as he took over the show but he was never a jock or a geek.[/quote'] I'd say Arthur Fonzerelli was more of a super mage...for that matter I remember reading some internet article comparing him to a shamen...something to do with facing death and getting supernatural powers EDIT Here is a link to that article for those interested http://louanders.blogspot.com/2005/03/power-of-cool-arthur-fonzarelli-as.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version 1 he would if he was offered a chance 2 he's no braggart but he can hold his own when needed you mean like a combination jock-geek? At that point, I would say he is not in either of those cliques, at least not on the basis of knowing how to fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version in the cliques mentioned in teen champions which clique would a martial arts student fall into jocks because its an athletic skill or geeks because its a subject for study? Either Jocks or Loners... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version It all depends on the mindset. Cobra Kai = Jock Karate Kid = Outsider/Loner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version Pardon the minor thread necromancy, but this thread came to mind today and I worked out an explanation. On the assumption that we are talking about US public high schools... The Jock clique consists of those male students that play on the varsity team(s) for the most popular sport(s) in the local community, and the female cheerleaders. For rural and suburban schools, the most popular sport is football, with baseball usually running a close second and basketball third. For urban schools, basketball rivals football for popularity and baseball is often not in the picture. Regional variations exist; in the northern US states hockey is highly popular as well, replacing basketball and/or baseball on the popularity list. Modifying this is the relative quality of the teams - a team that wins championships and/or wins often will be more popular than one that doesn't, from among the candidates for most popular. Note also that, Title IX aside, girls sports usually don't have the same level of popularity and girls on those teams aren't usually part of the main Jock clique, though they may form their own, parallel, clique. So for a martial artist to be considered a Jock, the school would have to A. have a varsity martial arts team and B. that team would have to be as popular as football/basketball/baseball at other schools. (A note about wresting: the inclusion of wrestlers in the Jock clique comes because there is a high level of overlap between the football team and the wrestling team. Guys who wrestle but don't play football are usually lesser members of the Jock clique when they are accepted as members at all.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karma Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version As people have said, it depends on his personality/what the cliques think of him. Remember it's not 'his' choice which clique he's in. Cliques choose you (that's what the 'Watched' is about, are you 'one of us') The jocks might accept him because "a guy who can take you down is kind of cool and if he could teach us those throws we'd rule the field" but the moment he stood up for the little guy he'd be out on his ear. (I'm talking sterotypes here) The moment he stood up for the little guy said little guys might accept him, of course the'd probably expect him to act as clique body guard etc. and he'd probably find himself wondering what they were on about when they started using acronyms. I doubt he'd be thrown out but he'd probably drift away. Actually the two most likely IMHO are 'Weirdo' (true he doesn't have a dead rat collection or something really weird, but he is interested in all thae 'eastern philosphy' stuff and he just doesn't 'fit in') and of course 'loner' (since he doesn't fit in and most MA archetypes tend to be loner types anyway). I'd actually look at his other interests to choose his 'clique'. Heck he'd make a great Cheerleader what with those muscles and high kicks (Hey it's an idea). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version I'd actually look at his other interests to choose his 'clique'. Heck he'd make a great Cheerleader what with those muscles and high kicks (Hey it's an idea). At most high schools that would get him grouped in the "weirdo" section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version I'd actually look at his other interests to choose his 'clique'. Heck he'd make a great Cheerleader what with those muscles and high kicks (Hey it's an idea). Cheerleading began as an all-male activity. Male cheerleaders would be more accepted in historical settings (Pulp, Golden Age, early Silver Age). There's a Silver Age Superman story where Clark Kent is shown as having been a cheerleader at college. I hadn't really thought about it... but... hmm... Maybe next time I design a Teen Champions character... Of course the whole clique structure is essentially based upon the Hollywood versions of certain types of US schools, and doesn't apply in anything like the same form outside these schools, or in different historical periods. I personally couldn't really describe the clique structure at my school. The "smart kids" clique included both geeks and future Olympic level athletes, and had at least a touch of (social) class origin involved. The defining thing, though, was that we were all in an overlapping set of (school) classes. I'm simply not aware of the clique structure in the rest of the school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version While there is a certain amount of competition between teams of different sports for supremacy, it must also be acknowledged that in most high schools, there is a lot of cross pollenation between teams, in that the best athletes will play more than one sport. It's very common for the elite athletes to play two to four team sports, which does a lot to diffuse the competition between teams. Bo Jackson, John Elway, Deion Sanders and a host of other players split time between baseball and football. There are a number of football tight ends that also played basketball. Hall of Famer Jim Brown played a bunch of sports, including lacrosse. Regardless of whether or not the school has a karate team or a TKD team, the central issue of what clique a martial arts enthusiast will end up associated with is: why are they doing it? If they are doing it to gain spiritual insight or to improve their self esteem or to protect themselves from bullies, then they will not be accepted as a jock. If they are doing it to win tournaments and kick ass, then they will be accepted as a jock. It's about that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version Regardless of whether or not the school has a karate team or a TKD team, the central issue of what clique a martial arts enthusiast will end up associated with is: why are they doing it? If they are doing it to gain spiritual insight or to improve their self esteem or to protect themselves from bullies, then they will not be accepted as a jock. If they are doing it to win tournaments and kick ass, then they will be accepted as a jock. It's about that simple. Sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoutybloke Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version He could probably form seperate a martial arts clique, if you really want him to be in a clique. All you need is three other people who are interested enough to train regularly, and sociable enough to hang out at other times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted February 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Re: teen champons geeks vs jocks kung fu version He could probably form seperate a martial arts clique' date=' if you really want him to be in a clique. All you need is three other people who are interested enough to train regularly, and sociable enough to hang out at other times[/quote'] as in the original power rangers series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.