Greywind Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios I don't use Teleios and never intend to - can't stand the stupid concept combined with a mile wide plot hole. "Fill in the Blank" for the GM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios Foxbat is in Conquerors' date=' Killers, And Crooks[/i']. And I'm pretty confident matrix3 was being facetious in attributing Teleios to him. You see, Foxbat is infamous for claiming that whatever screwy ideas he comes up with, or random events that happen to him, are all part of his undefined "Master Plan ." Am I alone in the sick desire to have Foxbat turn out to be the greatest master villain in the Champions U? His master includes every unexplained or mysterious even in the setting, a plan so vast and all encompassing it cannot fail to lead to his dominance of the Universe. He is the inevitable something Capt Chronos is futility trying to stop.... without knowing his interference is part of the plan too. and he's doing it all in plain sight, even announcing it and chuckling AT not with his detractors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios I think I am going to go with Foxbat. Foxbat is the Keyser Soze, or perhaps more appropriately the Verbal Kint, of the Champions universe. All of his supposed "idiocy" and "insanity" is just a smokescreen. He is actually the most brilliant, dangerous Supervillain in the world. KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios I think I am going to go with Foxbat. Foxbat is the Keyser Soze, or perhaps more appropriately the Verbal Kint, of the Champions universe. All of his supposed "idiocy" and "insanity" is just a smokescreen. He is actually the most brilliant, dangerous Supervillain in the world. KA. The module should open with the PC investigating the murder of a well known if someone shady superhero in Hudson City. He was severely beaten and hurled to his death through the his apartment window.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios The module should open with the PC investigating the murder of a well known if someone shady superhero in Hudson City. He was severely beaten and hurled to his death through the his apartment window.... "On Friday night, a Crusader died in Hudson City." "Do it? Nighthawk, I'm not a Republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-plan if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago." KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios I can't follow that, and I'm not going to try. Premise: Someone took measures to create Teleios. Therefore, he is a tool of some other agency. Possibilities: Group i) Masterminds Mechanon, for reasons already canvassed; Doctor Destroyer, ditto; Takofanes/Istvahn V'Haan/Skaarn the Shaper/Dr. Yin Wu, for reasons not yet fleshed out; Korrax the Time King/Tsunami/The Sky Master/Archimago/some other criminal or otherwise antagonist mastermind not currently in play, for reasons not yet fleshed out; Group ii) From Spa-a-a-ce! The Mandaarians (or more specifically, Sovereign)/Progenitors/Malvans (or, more specifically, Tateklys [Scourges of the Galaxy], to accelerate human evolution; Group iii) Mobs! Argent/VIPER/DEMON/Gadroon/Sirians/Hzeel/Qularr/Lemurians, to take over the world! Group iv) Scary The Dragon/Elder Worm, to subjugate humanity under a permanent tyranny as degrading as it is corrupting; Necrull, because he makes my skin crawl; Set/Tezcatlipoca, because they're up to something. Group v) Canada Something from CotN, for purposes good or ill. Perhaps Teleios' purpose was solely to create the Landsman? Or maybe it's evil. Group vi): Future/alternate reality Teleios. Mechanism: i) Latent: Teleios is going to do something. ii) Active: Teleios has already done something. If active, what has he already done, besides making people? On the principle of economy, that's what he's intended to do. If so, Teleios' purpose is to put genes into circulation. Perhaps "superior" ones, perhaps Elder Worm-perverted ones. Either way, his sponsor's goals are being met every time one of Teleios' clone soldiers or Hurricane has a one-night stand, but the results won't be seen any time soon. Perhaps in 2025? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egyptoid Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios can't stand the stupid concept combined with a mile wide plot hole. my old buddy Bob uses this exact phrase to describe Hagrid in Harry Potter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios Personally I love the concept of Teleios' advances in genetics all having been prodded to fruition after he woke up to find notes in what looks to be his own handwriting casually left lying around by Consuela, the fiendish criminal mastermind with 35 INT who doesn't do windows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios Initially, when I first read the character, when I read how he forgot about finding the formulas and thought he did it all himself, I figured "maybe he did." Maybe he somehow ended up traveling through time, and his future self wrote down the notes that would let him be who he now is. Or he just did it in his sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silbeg Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios I've always liked the schtick that he sent the information back in time to himself. Very much genre trope. He'll eventually figure it out... but his future self spent far too many years at it, and because of it failed in his attempts to do whatever it is he wanted to do. So, he sends the formula back in time to himself (perhaps telepathically to his unconscious self?), and voila! His plans now have time to reach fruition... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balabanto Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios Oh? Do you, then, not allow players to build characters with mysterious circumstances in their backgrounds? Do they have to have their entire history plotted out with nothing that can appear in play as a surprise to the player? Personally I feel that having these 'holes' that can be filled in later adds more depth, or at least potential depth to the game. The only thing worse than a character with a completely blank background, is one with a completely filled in and explained background that leaves no room for expansion. The difference is that that's arranged between the player and the GM. And I run enough games where I can't afford to let a hole like that sit around. This is why I don't use the CU. I need to know where everything comes from, and god forbid the CU should come up with an answer that doesn't match what I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios Funny, I seem to recall reading a while back that it was The Dragon... in Mystic World, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios Funny' date=' I seem to recall reading a while back that it was The Dragon... in [i']Mystic World[/i], maybe? That one, I can't recall seeing. You may be thinking of the mention in TMW p. 140, that the Dragon "prompted a geneticist to invent the COIL gene and become King Cobra." Note that the passage says "prompted,'' and implies that King Cobra was the inventor. The Dragon can potentially know everything that any human knows... but it can't know something that hasn't been invented or discovered yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios That one' date=' I can't recall seeing. You may be thinking of the mention in TMW p. 140, that the Dragon "prompted a geneticist to invent the COIL gene and become King Cobra." Note that the passage says "prompted,'' and implies that King Cobra was the inventor. The Dragon can potentially know everything that any human knows... but it can't know something that hasn't been invented or discovered yet.[/quote'] That's actually a reference to Timothy Blank. And I may have gotten the reference wrong, but I do remember reading somewhere that the Dragon was the one who gave Strassen the key to unlock his genetics and make himself Teleios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios Reasons vaguely related to these, are why in one campaign I played in, Teleios turned out to not be Jakob Stroessen. . . but rather Dr Gerhardt Spregen, a character originating in the Dark Champions line, IIRC. Nazi biological scientist, who figured out a means for extending lifespan, and managed to evade the post-war hunt. By the time of the current Champions era, he has basically the capabilities of canon Teleios, so its mostly a background alteration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios I considered doing something similar, but using Dr. Siegfried Qual, from Golden Age Champions -- another physically-deformed mad scientist. But I agree, somehow it seems more appropriate for a geneticist-villain to originate from the Nazi era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios Reasons vaguely related to these' date=' are why in one campaign I played in, Teleios turned out to not be Jakob Stroessen. . . but rather Dr Gerhardt Spregen, a character originating in the Dark Champions line, IIRC. Nazi biological scientist, who figured out a means for extending lifespan, and managed to evade the post-war hunt. By the time of the current Champions era, he has basically the capabilities of canon Teleios, so its mostly a background alteration.[/quote'] Yeah, we kicked that idea around our online group a bit, didn't we? I always liked it myself. And Spregen originated in 4e Dark Champions; I don't think he's been republished in 5e. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios I considered doing something similar' date=' but using Dr. Siegfried Qual, from [i']Golden Age Champions[/i] -- another physically-deformed mad scientist. But I agree, somehow it seems more appropriate for a geneticist-villain to originate from the Nazi era. Qual always reminded me more of Dr. Sivana, Captain Marvel's perpetual foe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Admiral C Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios Okay the Champions Universe book has Teleios in it, as I'm sure most of you are aware. In the book it says that Teleios, then Jakob Stroessen fell asleep from exhaustion while working on his plan for nearly three days straight. When he came to, he found a sheet of paper filled with notes and formulas. From this, Jakob managed to complete his formulas and was able to become Teleios . Now here's the questions I put to you, which I'm sure some have wondered already. Who, or what, wrote down the formula for Jakob so he could complete his work, and why? If you have a theory, share it. If you explored the concept in one of the games, talk about it. My take on the whole thing is that Teleois is to act as a smokescreen for the true perfect man- Malachite! It was Malachite that left him the formula and now Teleois is unwittingly doing his bidding by drawing attention away from Malachite' date=' and when one of his schemes does go wrong everyone just assumes it was Teleios' doing.[/quote'] I take this once step further since I don't care for Teleios's background hole much either. I say that he is Malachite since I remember his background pretty well all the way up to his use his genetically engineered birth, to drowning his mom in Venice, and of mind control drugs to take over a small island nation. I've just assumed that Teleios's background is pretty much just a hoax for detectives to find to lure them away from his real background and that Jakob just worked for him early on at one point. I thought he was Malachite for the longest time when fifth ed books started coming out. Long before I actually read Teleios's background when I was just scanning the book and saw his entry, his pic, his general character sheet and his byline the Perfect Man I thought, "Huh, they changed Malachite's name for some reason. Loss the tuxedo too." It was years later when I actually bothered to read the entry that I noticed he was different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios It's not entirely unprecedented for Teleios's creations to be usurped by occult powers for their own purposes; that's the origin of the Canadian supervillain, the Landsman. (Champions Of The North) I have this idea of my own, of some bizarre Italian nobleman named, what, Sylvester something, hiring Teleios to breed "a real dragon". Intrigued at the challenge, Teleios does so... only to discover that this dragon is really a shell for The Dragon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios My lupine friend, that is one of the coolest CU continuity twists I've seen. Rep to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted January 12, 2010 Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Re: The Reason Behind Teleios My lupine friend' date=' that is one of the coolest CU continuity twists I've seen. Rep to you! [/quote'] Thanks, glad you like it. To me, one of the great strengths of superheroic gaming, esp. Champions, is being able to combine all the weird background material like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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