Teleport redirection

[nexus]

How would you model a character that can override another character's Power to Teleport and force them to arrive at different destination than they planned? The character must have Teleported on their own. The character can't force them to and simply teleport characters are objects as an Attack (with this power anyway).

[ajackson]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

1) Dispel plus teleport as attack, probably triggered.

2) Transform

3) Mind Control

 

None of them are great builds.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

From a similarly named thread from November '07:

 

I'd buy it as Teleport Usable as Attack, Ranged, only vs. people currently teleporting. Buy enough range to make you comfortable and take an additional limitation of "only up to range of target's teleport".

 

I don't think you could do a transform for it, though. Doesn't feel right.

 

This seems like the best approach.

 

32 Transporter Beam Interception: Teleportation 10", Indirect (Same origin, always fired away from attacker; +1/4), Ranged (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1), Area Of Effect (12" Radius; +1 1/4) (80 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about two-thirds of its effectiveness (Only vs. targets in the act of teleporting; -1 1/2) - END=8

 

I have no idea what the appropriate defense* should be.

 

Also, since this only effects targets in the act of using a movement ability it may also need a Trigger or Held action to allow it to be used as a kind of Reverse Dive For Cover action.

 

*Usable As Attack is it's own type of NND Advantage especially when applied to Movement powers.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

Yeah, I'd probably go with Limited UAA Teleport. But Mind Control or Mental Illusions to make the target go to a different spot or get confused about which direction they are going are interesting possibilities as well, I must admit.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

How would you model a character that can override another character's Power to Teleport and force them to arrive at different destination than they planned? The character must have Teleported on their own. The character can't force them to and simply teleport characters are objects as an Attack (with this power anyway).

 

Deserve rep for the question but I can't right now. Will use the I Owe Rep Exchange Thread and see if someone else will!

 

Anyway. The implications of this mechanically are more complicated than the power. It appears logical (in twisted superhero worlds) that if someone can teleport then that travel can be re-directed. This is another case where the mechanics bump up against SFX. If the SFX of the teleporters are different can they interfere with each other's travel?

 

I would essentially use this as a contest between powers. I would also allow teleporters to buy skills in this kind of combat.

 

So. If you purchase teleporting skill you get a basic awareness of teleportation activity (just like mental awareness but more limited). if the SFX of the teleportation matches then you can tussle - like a STR vs STR roll and if you win, you can alter the destination by 1" per point that you win by. (If the teleport was mega-scaled then those would be mega-scaled inches).

 

I understand that this is simply changing the TP power as written rather than looking for another mechanic but it feels more intuitive to me and broadens the teleport power to be more interesting rather than looking for a clunky application of powers that could leave all other teleporters looking a bit useless....

 

 

Doc

[nexus]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

Deserve rep for the question but I can't right now. Will use the I Owe Rep Exchange Thread and see if someone else will!

 

Anyway. The implications of this mechanically are more complicated than the power. It appears logical (in twisted superhero worlds) that if someone can teleport then that travel can be re-directed. This is another case where the mechanics bump up against SFX. If the SFX of the teleporters are different can they interfere with each other's travel?

 

The character can only affect Teleportation with specific special effects as a Limitation to sfx vs sfx shouldn't be a (major) issue*.

 

*Hopefully

[jtelson]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

Since Teleport is supposed to be instantaneous, I think you need to hit them after/as they arrive (If you hit them before they leave they would just then teleport to their desired location when their action resolved). So maybe something like

 

Detect: Teleportation with Discrim or Analyze to determine Point of Arrival, and targeting

Teleport - UAA, Ranged, Indirect, AOE? (To catch passengers), trigger (Target Arriving at Destination)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

How is it supposed to work? Do you have to catch the target in the act of teleportation? If this is the case, Teleport UAA seems like the right build, and you need to have an action available (unless a kindly GM is willing to bend the Abort rules for you) in order to redirect him as he Teleports.

 

However, I could see buying the UAA teleport with Delayed Effect (it goes off when the target teleports) if you are able to set this up in advance.

 

A defense for the UAA? I might consider handwaving this when the power only affects those who can teleport, and only when they do so. Alternatively, if teleportation is common in the game, there's probably some means of overriding the misdirection.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

I've nothing truly serious to offer this discussion...

 

Missile Reflecton: Teleporters.

 

 

I found the idea amusing.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

How does the power work? Are you somehow persuading the person to teleport somewhere other than where they thought they wanted to go (which might be accomplished by mind control, mental illusions or even, possibly, images) and has the advantage that you can get them to teleport into solid objects if you are so inclined, or are you somehow affecting the power?

 

If the latter then I would certainly say UAA teleport would be favourite but, as has been pointed out, it would have to take effect at the destination point (although the sfx may make it look like a single teleport rather than one then another) because the power would not prevent the original teleport being used after the 'redirect'. Having to target the destination point is problematic because you may not be able to draw line of sight on it.

 

Interestingly, and depending on how you play it, you could interupt a teleport and move the target to a different starting point. If they were not able to stop themselves from subsequently teleporting they may end up anywhere.

 

Of course that depends how the TP works - is it to a destination or along a vector?

 

One other possibility would be a triggered dispel (dispel would not normally work on an instant power but the trigger might let it - if not a suppress should do it) to neutralise the actual teleport move and then use a UAA teleport to move the target.

 

I like Doc's idea and you could incorportate a 'Tussle of Teleports' with the RSR (opposed rolls) limitation (roll 9+points in tp/5)

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

I think that some form of T-port UAA is probably the easiest way to model this, but I confess I dislike using UAA with movement powers because it often ends up being abusive. You might have the "defense" against being teleported by someone else be some kind of T-port vs. T-port roll like Doc D suggested.

 

So how would you do this if you were trying to override some other movement power, say forcing a runner to go someplace they didn't want to but using their own movement to get them there? Mind Control is the obvious pick, but the sfx may not fit well.

 

Telekinesis could work, limited only to changing the direction the target is facing so as they run they will go where they are directed rather than where they want to go. You could buy a Telekinesis, Transdimensional, to allow this kind of interference on a teleporter.

 

Finally, I think a Transform could work, defined as transforming the Teleport power only to a fixed location (as defined by the attacker). There was a discussion about using a Transform vs. the active points in a power instead of vs. BDY in The Ultimate Supermage (I forget exactly how it worked) which might be relevant here, but that could be a good approach.

[Korren]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

Alternately, Transform (Person with Teleport to location A) to (Person with Teleport to location , but that sounds like it would get cost ineffective. The Mind Control/Illusion power would likely be cheaper, unless the teleporter has Mental Defense.

 

Korren

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

Are you somehow persuading the person to teleport somewhere other than where they thought they wanted to go

 

And so he invites the EDM solution of moving the teleporter to a dimension where the target he teleported to was actually somewhere else!

 

 

Doc

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

I actually recall a comics example of this. In Alpha Flight when a pissed-off Talisman (Elizabeth Twoyoungmen version) teleported the team from Edmonton to their headquarters across the continent, Snowbird didn't reappear with the rest. Shaman said that she wasn't so easy to teleport against her will, and would have stayed in Edmonton or traveled to a location of her choosing.

 

Which is a roundabout way of saying that Power Defense might be a good choice for resisting the Teleport UAA effect.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

If the latter then I would certainly say UAA teleport would be favourite but' date=' as has been pointed out, it would have to take effect at the destination point (although the sfx may make it look like a single teleport rather than one then another) because the power would not prevent the original teleport being used after the 'redirect'. Having to target the destination point is problematic because you may not be able to draw line of sight on it.[/quote']

 

This was my conclusion. Build it as a Triggered Power at the location of the destination point (Trigger condition is "someone teleports in"). It's UAA so you can put it anywhere you want. I recommend making it at least Area Of Effect: 1 hex. Mechanically, what happens is he teleports to his destination then teleports to your destination, but SFX wise, the Teleport is diverted.

 

Or, just use Extradimensional Movement. :rimshot:

[prestidigitator]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

I think that some form of T-port UAA is probably the easiest way to model this' date=' but I confess I dislike using UAA with movement powers because it often ends up being abusive. You might have the "defense" against being teleported by someone else be some kind of T-port vs. T-port roll like Doc D suggested.[/quote']

 

Ignoring Teleportation for the moment, there's really no way to redirect someone else's Running (Swimming, Flight, etc.) in the system either. We'd probably be considering TK, UAA Running, or some strange form of Indirect non-damaging attack with lots of Knockback for that. I don't think the UAA build is abusive given the other options and the Limitations that are likely to be required for the build. The SFX is messing with the target's own Power, or, more accurately, a one-time use of their Power.

 

Is that, by its nature, abusive? Maybe. But then I think the consideration has to be whether to allow the construct at all, and not so much how it is built. The GM could certainly require that some form of balance be built into the UAA choice as well. It's already going to require an attack roll unless heaped with other Advantages. Heh.

[caris]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

I'm actually leaning toward Mind Control with modifiers on it. The description sounds like you are taking control of an aspect of the character. It just seems like it shouldn't necessarily work off of EGO. I'm not sure what works best here Active Cost of Power/2+X (where X=GM determined level of effect needed from Mind Control table + 10)? Something else?

[nexus]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

The character (Z.E.R.O) must use the power when her target teleports of their own accord. She can then cause them to arrive where she wants them too (not inside solid objects).

[ajackson]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

Something else?

Vs con, probably. I generally assume mind control vs con also goes vs power defense, because it's essentially useless otherwise, but as written it would be pd/ed and con.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

I'm actually leaning toward Mind Control with modifiers on it. The description sounds like you are taking control of an aspect of the character. It just seems like it shouldn't necessarily work off of EGO. I'm not sure what works best here Active Cost of Power/2+X (where X=GM determined level of effect needed from Mind Control table + 10)? Something else?

 

I dislike using Mind Control for this effect. It does not seem it should be more difficult to affect a strong-willed teleporter, that mental awareness should detect its use or that the urgency with which the teleporter wishes to reach the desired destination should make the power any more or less likely to work. As well, the effect seems like it would not continue over time, but would only affect one teleport and need to be reused to affect the next one.

 

The character (Z.E.R.O) must use the power when her target teleports of their own accord. She can then cause them to arrive where she wants them too (not inside solid objects).

 

I'd use the UAA construct, probably built with Megascale to ensure that you can reach as far as the teleporter can. The limitations have already been addressed. Given you cannot teleport anyone who does not have and use the power, I would waive the "defense against" requirement (basically, the defense is either not being able to teleport or just not teleporting - that's enough of a restriction in my view).

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

I'd use the UAA construct' date=' probably built with Megascale to ensure that you can reach as far as the teleporter can. The limitations have already been addressed. Given you cannot teleport anyone who does not have and use the power, I would waive the "defense against" requirement (basically, the defense is either not being able to teleport or just not teleporting - that's enough of a restriction in my view).[/quote']

 

I would disagree. If the power in question was some kind of feedback loop that damaged a teleporter then I think that simply not teleporting was a sufficient defence.

 

As it stands what you have is a power that not only prevents the teleporter from getting to a destination but can put them somewhere else at another person's discretion. And there would be no way of getting round that except not using your teleport?

 

At the very least there should be a skill vs skill tussle, otherwise the redirector is assumed to detect the arrival of every teleporter, is able to subvert their power regardless and deliver that teleporter to a destination of his choice.

 

 

Doc

[nexus]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

I think I will override the requires a defense aspect of UAA. Zero can only effect a certain sfx of a specific and some what rare power in the setting and has to have an action ready to do so and can't do any direct harm to her target with it. Since the target has to have teleportation powers of their its uses is even more limited since even putting them in a dangerous or inconvenient position could be rectified. This might be one of those abilities tha comes up costing more than its actually worth in game.

 

It might get interesting when dealing with powers that have teleportation as part of their special effect. For example, Sidewinder has a Area of Effect HTH defined as her teleporting around in a small area and striking everyone in it. SFXwise Zero should be able to interfere with that ability.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

Ignoring Teleportation for the moment' date=' there's really no way to redirect someone else's Running (Swimming, Flight, etc.) in the system either. ............[/quote']

 

 

.....or the ice sheet example power from Change Environment....

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

I would disagree. If the power in question was some kind of feedback loop that damaged a teleporter then I think that simply not teleporting was a sufficient defence.

 

As it stands what you have is a power that not only prevents the teleporter from getting to a destination but can put them somewhere else at another person's discretion. And there would be no way of getting round that except not using your teleport?

 

"Target must have Teleportation and use it" seems a lot more common, at least to me, than "A reasonably common defense", such as the often-used Force Field, or "has similar powers" for NND's and UAA attacks.

 

At the very least there should be a skill vs skill tussle' date=' otherwise the redirector is assumed to detect the arrival of every teleporter, is able to subvert their power regardless and deliver that teleporter to a destination of his choice.[/quote']

 

I see nothing in the description of the power that allows automatic detection. In fact, the character needs to have an action at the precise time of teleportation to use the ability. Unless he has substantial enhanced senses, he needs to use the power against a departing teleporter (same thing if he's just blipping around the field of combat, of course). I'm inclined to agree with Nexus (below) that this seems likely to be a power that costs more than it generates in value in play. Hopefully, it's a Multipower slot. It feels very much like a flavour power, rather than a gamebreaker, to me.

 

I think I will override the requires a defense aspect of UAA. Zero can only effect a certain sfx of a specific and some what rare power in the setting and has to have an action ready to do so and can't do any direct harm to her target with it. Since the target has to have teleportation powers of their its uses is even more limited since even putting them in a dangerous or inconvenient position could be rectified. This might be one of those abilities tha comes up costing more than its actually worth in game.

 

It might get interesting when dealing with powers that have teleportation as part of their special effect. For example, Sidewinder has a Area of Effect HTH defined as her teleporting around in a small area and striking everyone in it. SFXwise Zero should be able to interfere with that ability.

 

It would seem reasonable to also have a power that impacts all powers with a Teleport SFX (or an SFX relying on precision teleportation) - maybe a Suppress.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Teleport redirection

 

I see nothing in the description of the power that allows automatic detection. In fact' date=' the character needs to have an action at the precise time of teleportation to use the ability. Unless he has substantial enhanced senses, he needs to use the power against a departing teleporter (same thing if he's just blipping around the field of combat, of course). I'm inclined to agree with Nexus (below) that this seems likely to be a power that costs more than it generates in value in play. Hopefully, it's a Multipower slot. It feels very much like a flavour power, rather than a gamebreaker, to me.[/quote']

 

To effectively re-direct a teleport you must be able to sense it coming in before being able to re-direct it. Otherwise there could be an opportunity for another linked power to go off before the re-direct took place.

 

 

I know. Angels on head of a pin stuff.

 

 

Doc