Game Master Lament

[ghost-angel]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

Yeah, and I keep thinking "I should do some cool stuff for the DnD game... considering what I've done for other games" ... then something shiny comes along.

 

The DnD Game is fun at all get out, I love it. But it's a different game from some others I've played in where pre-game prep was a lot of the driving force. . . Like I said, some games I do all kinds of stuff for because it's fun, some games I'd just like to show up and let my mind relax for a while.

 

but no game has ever required me to do stuff outside the session. Ever. And if a game did Require it, I'd walk. Even if I thought it'd be fun to do.

[Vondy]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

I find this whole conversation weird. I play games with friends. We' date=' you know, get on.[/quote']

 

Yeah. Most of my players were also friends. On the other hand, it always seems like there's either a "friend of a friend" or a legacy "friend of a friend" around, too. My old group came together in an organic sort of way. Some people integrated and became (outside the game) friends better than others.

[LordGhee]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

Thanks for all the commets I will post a more detail response as today is very busy.

 

• I was ask by a player to run a Musketeer game
  
• I asked the group if this was alright as it was going to be historical and to my surprise got a postive response
  
• my first announcement came out 6 weeks in advance
  
• I ask a player who had a copy of the 1973 Three Musketeer movie to do a moive night and we did
  
• the core group have been playing Hero together since the begining and I have the gray to prove it and we are friends
  
• Start dafe is January and as we have 8 rotating Gm's we get a month. The group plays 2 days a week with a different GM and genere.
  
• and I did get inthused and plan a game to make the Hero world envious
  
• and since we are friends I am crying to strangers
  

 

thanks for the comments and keep them coming and I will be posting My Musketeer game on the Fantasy Hero boards.

 

Lord Ghee

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

I agree with everyone...except NinjaBear...you're on THE LIST buddy...

 

 

Now I'm curious, is that the guest list or the grocery list ?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

There's a difference?

[Balabanto]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

I just announced to our gaming group that I will be running a Musketeers game. In the announcement I mentioned that there would be home work. The players needed to watch one of two Four Musketeers Movies (the 1973 or for those with kids 1948 version). Also I will have a few pages of notes and a couple of 3 minute videos from the web to watch. This is so everyone is on the same page and understands the kind of game this will be. Now I have already put in 40 hours of work, bought a copy of the Three Musketeers (the queens diamonds 1973), checked that blockbuster has the 1948 one at .99 cents for five day rental and have not even started on the villains. I do plan to go the extra mile on this game. So when they read my announcement and two players stated that they do not do home work for games. I was stunned, really stunned, and hurt that my game was worth no effort and no effort was expected. The parties stated that gaming is fun and should not have any work.

 

Was I right in what turn into outrage that I was expected to spend hours of time to set up a game to entertain all and expect no effort other than creating a charater from my players?

 

this is a game that my players asked me to run also.

 

What to you as gammaster expect from your players.

(if some one more clever than I could set a poll on this subject that be cool.)

 

Sincerely

Lord Ghee

 

Quite frankly, I don't think your demands are unreasonable. First of all, the Four Musketeers movie is one of the best versions ever and is fun. It's not like you're asking them to pull their teeth, or rip out their 'nads with a tweezers and a hot spoon. Or, make it a movie night, have everyone show up, make them a nice meal and sit down.

 

If they still tell you they don't want to see it, I would boot them from the game. To be honest with you, this is like minimum system requirements for World of Warcraft. If you don't meet the minimum system requirements, you can't play the game. I've had people say "I don't want to play in this game of yours or that game of yours." Don't let it bother you. Just run the game without them.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

Thanks for all the commets I will post a more detail response as today is very busy.

 

• I was ask by a player to run a Musketeer game
  
• I asked the group if this was alright as it was going to be historical and to my surprise got a postive response
  
• my first announcement came out 6 weeks in advance
  
• I ask a player who had a copy of the 1973 Three Musketeer movie to do a moive night and we did
  
• the core group have been playing Hero together since the begining and I have the gray to prove it and we are friends
  
• Start dafe is January and as we have 8 rotating Gm's we get a month. The group plays 2 days a week with a different GM and genere.
  
• and I did get inthused and plan a game to make the Hero world envious
  
• and since we are friends I am crying to strangers
  

 

thanks for the comments and keep them coming and I will be posting My Musketeer game on the Fantasy Hero boards.

 

Lord Ghee

 

 

Ah - there's your problem right there. You've got rotating GMs. You need the reciprocating ones. And a 3/8ths Gripley.

 

Anyway, if that ungrateful bunch are not interested and you can make it over here Tuesday nights you're welcome to run your game: we'll watch as many old movies as you like. I probably even have an appropriate hat.

[BlackSword]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

Thanks for all the commets I will post a more detail response as today is very busy.

 

• I was ask by a player to run a Musketeer game
  
• I asked the group if this was alright as it was going to be historical and to my surprise got a postive response
  
• my first announcement came out 6 weeks in advance
  
• I ask a player who had a copy of the 1973 Three Musketeer movie to do a moive night and we did
  
• the core group have been playing Hero together since the begining and I have the gray to prove it and we are friends
  
• Start dafe is January and as we have 8 rotating Gm's we get a month. The group plays 2 days a week with a different GM and genere.
  
• and I did get inthused and plan a game to make the Hero world envious
  
• and since we are friends I am crying to strangers
  

 

thanks for the comments and keep them coming and I will be posting My Musketeer game on the Fantasy Hero boards.

 

Lord Ghee

Actually with that I can understand a bit better why there was pushback, especially if you called 'homework.' First two nights a week are busy with gaming, and if every GM starts asking for homework, even if its just a movie, that would be an additional 16 hours a month going to gaming. For people with families I can understand the reluctance to starting that precedence.

 

I tend to agree with some of the previous posts, make the first game session a character building session. Watch the movie, talk about the genre and how you as GM envision the game, make sure everyone is on the same page or find a compromise of styles, build complementary characters as a group. Discussing what you want from the game may be another big concern, some may be seeing your homework assignment as, "this is how the game is going to be played period," and be pushing back.

[Ice9]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

So you're going to ruin one guys fun "in the name of the group" ... nope. Bad choice.

 

This is not some Vulcan "The needs of the many" BS Crap.

I have to disagree somewhat here. There are limits to how much you can accommodate someone without ruining everyone else's fun.

 

For instance, in our D&D game, certain activities must be performed between games, not during a game - creating a character, levelling up, and doing extensive equipment purchasing. Why? Because we only get to play that game once a month, and we're not going to spend it sitting around, waiting for someone to allocate their skill points.

 

Now there are ways to make that less abrasive - we've got pregen characters, so if someone shows up with no character they can still play, and if they forget to level up, they can just play at their current level and do it next time. But we came here to play, and that's what we're going to do.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

Everyone has to compromise. Any one person unwilling to compromise should be asked to leave, not forced into something.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

I think the mistake was with the semantics. Calling it homework was a bad idea. It should've been "I've got copies of several Three Musketeers films; and anyone who can't watch them on our movie night is welcome to borrow them."

 

No tests, no quizzes.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

 

The GM gets no special rights because of all the work they do beyond the Players paying attention AT the game. Homework? you can't require it, it's not a class, it's fun time.

 

Rights? no. Respect yes. If someone is such a flake that

watching a movie is within their definition of undesirable homework,

then they're not welcome in my game.

 

I've required novels to be read for some of my games.

 

and they're been read, cause I game with adults.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

Rights? no. Respect yes. If someone is such a flake that

watching a movie is within their definition of undesirable homework,

then they're not welcome in my game.

 

I've required novels to be read for some of my games.

 

and they're been read, cause I game with adults.

Unfortunately for Lord Ghee, he has a number of rather obnoxious players in his group*. Several are "adult" only in the legal definition.

 

 

*I gamed with them for many years; my own group is essentially a spinoff because I didn't like the direction that group was taking (or some of the players, for that matter). Several of my current group participate in or are recruits from that one.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

Rights? no. Respect yes. If someone is such a flake that

watching a movie is within their definition of undesirable homework,

then they're not welcome in my game.

 

I've required novels to be read for some of my games.

 

and they're been read, cause I game with adults.

 

You got it wrong, who would want to join a group such as yours, I wouldn't. Then again according to my wife, I'm really not metally yet an adult.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

Thanks for all the commets I will post a more detail response as today is very busy.

 

• I was ask by a player to run a Musketeer game
  
• I asked the group if this was alright as it was going to be historical and to my surprise got a postive response
  
• my first announcement came out 6 weeks in advance
  
• I ask a player who had a copy of the 1973 Three Musketeer movie to do a moive night and we did
  
• the core group have been playing Hero together since the begining and I have the gray to prove it and we are friends
  
• Start dafe is January and as we have 8 rotating Gm's we get a month. The group plays 2 days a week with a different GM and genere.
  
• and I did get inthused and plan a game to make the Hero world envious
  
• and since we are friends I am crying to strangers
  

thanks for the comments and keep them coming and I will be posting My Musketeer game on the Fantasy Hero boards.

 

Lord Ghee

 

In light of this information I will change my stance alittle in that if they could be expecting you to do such research and could be asked to do some "homework" because they gamed with you so long, then I could see the surprise and heartache.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

Rights? no. Respect yes. If someone is such a flake that

watching a movie is within their definition of undesirable homework,

then they're not welcome in my game.

 

I've required novels to be read for some of my games.

 

and they're been read, cause I game with adults.

 

No, you game with people who like movies and like novels, or at least like the ones you told them to read. Had you told them to read or watch something they didn't like, I suspect the results would have been different.

 

Either that, or they'd lie to you.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

Rights? no. Respect yes. If someone is such a flake that

watching a movie is within their definition of undesirable homework,

then they're not welcome in my game.

 

I've required novels to be read for some of my games.

 

and they're been read, cause I game with adults.

 

You'd have to wait for months for me to finish (if I ever did), even if I started reading that day (which, chances are, I wouldn't). I haven't had time to read novels in I don't know how long. It might take me several days to get through a chapter, and then I might not have a chance to pick it up again for weeks.

 

Back in college, I could plow through multiple books in a week. Big, thick, academic tomes. I had to, if I wanted to pass all my classes. Apparently, years of that burned out the "fast reader" part of my brain.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

You'd have to wait for months for me to finish (if I ever did), even if I started reading that day (which, chances are, I wouldn't). I haven't had time to read novels in I don't know how long. It might take me several days to get through a chapter, and then I might not have a chance to pick it up again for weeks.

 

Back in college, I could plow through multiple books in a week. Big, thick, academic tomes. I had to, if I wanted to pass all my classes. Apparently, years of that burned out the "fast reader" part of my brain.

 

Eh, just look over the Wikipedia entry (the modern version of Cliff's Notes), then it's covered.

[Balabanto]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

Everyone has to compromise. Any one person unwilling to compromise should be asked to leave' date=' not forced into something.[/quote']

 

As far as being a GM is concerned, the answer to that is no. If I tell you that I'm running a game and I'd like you to play in it, you have the freedom to play in it, or not. If the GM says "My requirements are that you read this text to play the game", then you read the text to play the game. Otherwise, don't play.

 

I consider that a prerequisite for participating in the game if the GM says "I have this background stuff I'd like you to do." In fact, it shows a distinct lack of manners to tell the GM to take a hike if you want to play. My response to people like that is "No ticket, no shirt" or the GM equivalent, because I can always find someone out of my 12-15 players who WILL do that work and will be happy to play in a higher than basic requirements game.

 

That's not a point of compromise. That's a point of being a jerk. If you want to play the game, you MAKE the time. If you feel the work isn't worth the time, don't play the game. It is that simple. If you agreed to play before the GM laid down the prereqs, then do them or walk. The GM always has the right to set down whatever parameters he wants. The players always have the right to walk. That's it.

[TSandman]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

As far as being a GM is concerned' date=' the answer to that is no. If I tell you that I'm running a game and I'd like you to play in it, you have the freedom to play in it, or not. If the GM says "My requirements are that you read this text to play the game", then you read the text to play the game. Otherwise, don't play.[/quote']

 

I've lived through something like this... well, some concepts were similar, but not totally:

 

We've had someone offer to be the GM and we accepted on the condition that some common ground about the settings/rules must be decided as a group, not by the GM only. Lets say that after the second gaming session he started changing things and ended up saying "It's *MY* World, they're *MY* Rules".

 

I voiced my opinion in a rather direct way and told him "No, we ALL decides or we do not play". He stormed out with all his books. Three hours later, we had settled on a new game and were building Mage:TA characters, a game we played for 6 years straight.

 

It's been over 10 years since, and every game we started after that one had the basics accepted by everyone

 

 

The Moral: It's a GROUP game. If some doesn't want to go the way the majority wants, you might be able to exclude them. But if the majority do not want to go the same way as the GM, it's time the GM revises his choices/decisions, or end up alone. (we all know how "Easy" it is to find another group, don't we?)

[casualplayer]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

I guess it all depends on what character the players are going to want to play. The minimal prep players should probably play the neophyte "D'Artagnan" or the bonvivant "Porthos" and you can roll with those archetypes with just stats and attitude. "Fast, naive, impatient, falls in love easily, let's play!" Playing an "Athos" or an "Aramis" requires research and a backstory, and should be played by those with a talent and passion for such things.

 

You can't have 4 brooding loners all with screentime-demanding backstories. Somebody has to be willing to throw the wrong punch or pursue the dangerous beauty or make the misstep that leads to glory.

[lemming]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

I tried running a Western Game. The players were not convinced and campaign assassination happened.

 

Jonah Hex would naturally have a lisp right? It made for a nice violent game though.

 

I agree with it's a group effort.

[SteveZilla]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

I tried running a Western Game. The players were not convinced and campaign assassination happened.

 

Campaign assassination? Was it by a single player, or did two or more "gang up" to throw monkey wrenches into the works?

 

And I am reminded of the ultimate GM answer to this: "Rocks Fall! Everybody Dies!"

[lemming]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

Campaign assassination? Was it by a single player, or did two or more "gang up" to throw monkey wrenches into the works?

 

And I am reminded of the ultimate GM answer to this: "Rocks Fall! Everybody Dies!"

 

Couple ringleaders and a few that didn't care. Though other assassinations happened sometimes from a single person. Mostly they gave us funny stories to talk about later.

[Vondy]

Re: Game Master Lament

 

I've lived through something like this... well, some concepts were similar, but not totally:

 

We've had someone offer to be the GM and we accepted on the condition that some common ground about the settings/rules must be decided as a group, not by the GM only. Lets say that after the second gaming session he started changing things and ended up saying "It's *MY* World, they're *MY* Rules".

 

I voiced my opinion in a rather direct way and told him "No, we ALL decides or we do not play". He stormed out with all his books. Three hours later, we had settled on a new game and were building Mage:TA characters, a game we played for 6 years straight.

 

It's been over 10 years since, and every game we started after that one had the basics accepted by everyone

 

 

The Moral: It's a GROUP game. If some doesn't want to go the way the majority wants, you might be able to exclude them. But if the majority do not want to go the same way as the GM, it's time the GM revises his choices/decisions, or end up alone. (we all know how "Easy" it is to find another group, don't we?)

 

I think it depends on how many people are willing to run. The gamemaster needs to be inspired by the underlying game concept because of the amount of work that goes into running a game. On the other hand, the players need to dig the idea, too. I think the GM should float proposals of the things he's willing to run and see which ones fly. I do not think it should be a pure democracy, though. Just as the players should not be steamrollered, neither should the GM be steamrollered. Since he's the one doing most of the heavy lifting he at least needs a veto, and really should be the one providing the options of what will and won't be run. I say this as someone who was the GM for a group of players who refused to run games themselves. And who refused to host the game. Always my house. Always me running the game. I'm not their indentured game-master. Its got to be something that resonates with me.