The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

[Matt Holck]

All my powers have different +1/2 +1/4 +1/2 + 1 advantages with -1/4 -1 -1/2 limitations

I wrote it on 5 pages

 

Mr GM

could you check it over and state that

you saw no powers that might be unbalancing before we start playing?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

Huh?

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

There is an elegant beauty to a simple character write-up, but frequently it is the advantages and limitations that really give flavor to the hero's abilities. That said, a 5 page character sheet full of various modifiers sounds like someone trying to game the system to me.

[Peregrine]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

I read "exaggeration for effect" in the OP...

[torchwolf]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

I do hope a max of one sheet of paper doesn't include background and other info apart from the pointy-based stuff

[Kristopher]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

The HERO system has been heading towards a longer sheet over time because of the way more and more powers are built from fewer Powers with more and more modifiers.

 

In 5th, you had Regeneration turned into a heavily modified Healing.

 

In 6th, Force Field is now Armor (or whatever that's being called now) with modifiers heaped on.

 

Etc.

[Ice9]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

One thing I find that helps is modifying the output from HD to eliminate redundant modifiers. For instance, if you have a Framework or List where all slots are Zero END, OIF, Activation 14-, and Limited Power: Only during Daylight, then you don't have to also list those modifiers for every single slot. Also, I crunch down some of the longer names: Reduced Endurance (Only Costs Endurance to Activate) -> OCETA

[Matt Holck]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

cost end to activate -1/4 is about as short as I can make that

 

I'd dump the everyman skills, and the statt rolls, and statt notes only listing the exceptions

(I guess it depends how much one knows the system but to me saying 20 strength does 4d6 is redundant)

 

Is there an option to add chosen maneuvers to the maneuver list like "dive for cover", "roll with the blow", and "pull the punch"?

 

 

 

 

I do hope a max of one sheet of paper doesn't include background and other info apart from the pointy-based stuff

 

ofcourse not

in fact , point totals and complication can be placed on the back also

 

The HERO system has been heading towards a longer sheet over time because of the way more and more powers are built from fewer Powers with more and more modifiers.

 

In 5th, you had Regeneration turned into a heavily modified Healing.

 

In 6th, Force Field is now Armor (or whatever that's being called now) with modifiers heaped on.

 

Etc.

 

I understand "barrier" is a new power

no, I don't have the book yet

 

 

Huh?

 

Exactly

The GM is going to have make every the other player wait an hour

while he studies the intricate design work put into the character

 

I read "exaggeration for effect" in the OP...

true

but not as much as one first might think

[ghost-angel]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

I don't think I've had a hand written character come out to even that number. You've either run into the quirk of how HD displays stuff or you're over building.

[Lucius]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

Exactly

The GM is going to have make every the other player wait an hour

while he studies the intricate design work put into the character

 

Then, wouldn't a more reasonable rule be "you don't get to play your character the same day you turn it in for review" thus guaranteeing that you'll have time to look it over and think about it before allowing (or forbidding) it?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks so.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

Even with Everyman Skills listed and a several multipower frameworks with a lot of Advantages and Limitations I've never seen a hand written character sheet go over 3 pages. For that matter, I don't think I've ever had a printed one, using HD, go over two, and I usually use the format that lists all of the everyman combat maneuvers, hit locations, charges check boxes, et cetera.

 

Can you clarify your first post? Is the title of the thread your point? You feel that all characters should fit on 1 side of 1 sheet of paper? Seems extreme to me. I mean, you can’t even use both sides? If you feel that all characters should be on 1 sheet, why did take 5 pages to write yours? I’m missing something.

 

EDIT: Also, I’m pretty sure Killer Shrike’s “Huh?” indicated he didn’t understand what you meant. “Huh”, generally equates to “what”. So when someone says ‘huh?’ (e.i. What do you mean?), answering with “Exactly” makes absolutely no sense. (Apologies to KS if I misinterpreted your “huh?”).

Oh, and Lucius, I agree completely.

[torchwolf]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

The HERO system has been heading towards a longer sheet over time because of the way more and more powers are built from fewer Powers with more and more modifiers.

 

In 5th, you had Regeneration turned into a heavily modified Healing.

 

In 6th, Force Field is now Armor (or whatever that's being called now) with modifiers heaped on.

 

Etc.

Regeneration in 6E is purchased as BODY recovered per a time interval; it is even shorter in writeup than it was in 4th edition if you want to alter the interval.

 

Force Field and Armor becomes Resistant Protection in 6E. Applying Costs END turns it from Armor into Force Field. That's not especially many modifiers heaped on.

 

cost end to activate -1/4 is about as short as I can make that

There is some point where creating abbreviations become counterproductive. That point is usually different for many people, and it defeats the purpose if you have to spend time looking up what they mean.

 

I'd dump the everyman skills, and the statt rolls, and statt notes only listing the exceptions

(I guess it depends how much one knows the system but to me saying 20 strength does 4d6 is redundant)

...or 18 PRE being 3 1/2d6 PRE Attack or such... New Hero players might appreciate having those things on the sheet though.

 

Is there an option to add chosen maneuvers to the maneuver list like "dive for cover"' date=' "roll with the blow", and "pull the punch"?[/quote']

I'm not sure if you're referring to HD, but if you are, I think there are a few Export Formats posted that lets you select what is printed out. If you print out to a HTML format, you can always open it as Source Code (Ctrl+U in Firefox) and delete maneuvers you don't need printed out, or add in ones you want to add (though it may be a bit time consuming to do it that way).

 

ofcourse not

in fact , point totals and complication can be placed on the back also

I was half-joking, but to me, Complications and background is as important as the Powers, Skills, Perks, etc., and it can get a bit long for a complex personality, so it's good if that is not limited in length.

 

I understand "barrier" is a new power

no, I don't have the book yet

Barrier is what replaces both Force Wall and the "barriers" that could be formed by Entangles.

BTW, removing this from Entangle avoids the tedious writeup of [Entangle, xPD/xED xd6BODY "Only To Form Barriers"]. With Barrier you create a physical object with selected PD/ED/BODY/(other defenses) and dimensions, including thickness. Applying Costs END turns it into a Force Wall (only it can now have BODY as well as defenses).

 

The GM is going to have make every the other player wait an hour

while he studies the intricate design work put into the character

Then' date=' wouldn't a more reasonable rule be "you don't get to play your character the same day you turn it in for review" thus guaranteeing that you'll have time to look it over and think about it before allowing (or forbidding) it?[/quote']

Oh' date=' and Lucius, I agree completely.[/font']

This might of course depend on how much available time you have. Even so, just having a lot of mechanics listed might not be nearly as useful as some details under Powers/Tactics (failing that, a brief spoken statement) by the player describing the character's abilities. That will usually reveal, clarify and clean up some anomalies (especially under Powers) on the character sheet.

 

Even with Everyman Skills listed and a several multipower frameworks with a lot of Advantages and Limitations I've never seen a hand written character sheet go over 3 pages. For that matter' date=' I don't think I've ever had a printed one, using HD, go over two, and I usually use the format that lists all of the everyman combat maneuvers, hit locations, charges check boxes, et cetera.[/font']

I've had handwritten sheets run over 4 pages, but that was for a modern Urban Fantasy campaign with lots of spells written up individually. Eventually I designed a Spell Sheet that featured a Check Box for the most common Limitations (such as Requires Skill Roll, Concentration, Gestures, Incantations, Focus, etc.).

NOTE: This was under 4th Edition. If I were to do the same thing now, and use HD, I would do it as a list with the common Limitations at the top, but it would take considerably more space if written out, without some editing. HD writeouts become considerably shorter if edited only slightly, but again, that takes time.

[Vondy]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

Character sheet bloat - and the amount of mechanical design rather than world building - has played into my decision making process for the games I run. I've moved away from games that make extensive use of the powers section. Talents, perks, and skills are king.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

in order to evaluate the reasonableness of this proposal, please also tell me the maximum single-sided 8x11 pages in 12 point type which the GM's house rules and campaign guidelines for character construction must fit on.

[Matt Holck]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

I haven't evaluated that

but I imagine one page

 

[Killer Shrike]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

EDIT: Also, I’m pretty sure Killer Shrike’s “Huh?” indicated he didn’t understand what you meant. “Huh”, generally equates to “what”. So when someone says ‘huh?’ (e.i. What do you mean?), answering with “Exactly” makes absolutely no sense. (Apologies to KS if I misinterpreted your “huh?”).

Yes, I did not understand what the OP was trying to say or ask. But, it's become clear now as the thread has matured.

[Phil]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

Well, I completely agree with the OP statement. Hero has lots of nuts and bolts in the mechanics, and those of us who are used to them almost feel naked when they're taken away. But Doc Democracy has run a few Hero games which has condensed all of the key information onto a single, well spaced, page. In particular, a memorable League of Extraordinary Gentlemen pastiche that you wouldn't know from the character sheet was even a Hero System game. The trick is to remember that the Hero System is the software engine, it's not the GUI.

[Greywind]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

in order to evaluate the reasonableness of this proposal' date=' please also tell me the maximum single-sided 8x11 pages in 12 point type which the GM's house rules and campaign guidelines for character construction must fit on.[/quote']

...3x5 index card...

[Phil]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

in order to evaluate the reasonableness of this proposal' date=' please also tell me the maximum single-sided 8x11 pages in 12 point type which the GM's house rules and campaign guidelines for character construction must fit on.[/quote'] With minimum of single line spacing; fixed 2cm margins; defined font (to be specified) with zero point font compression. Just to be absolutely sure there's no funny business...

[Tasha]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

I would set the character in Times New Roman or Times. Those are narrow fonts that are smaller than Ariel and therefore allow more text to be displayed (even at 12pt type size). Now for most of the games I have been in this one page for the character is unreasonable. We would have a page for the writeup, one for the background info, and one as a combat cheat sheet.

 

I guess if you went to an old school character sheet that has power writeups taking 2/3's of the width of the sheet and taking half the page length, with skills/perks/talents taking 2 columns below that. You may be able to fit everything on a single sheet that way. Attached is a 2nd ed - 5th ed character sheet that I used prior to having Hero Designer or Creation Workshop around to create characters.

 

The document has no automation at all but it has a ton of room to show power writeups etc.

 

BTW double check the Combat Maneuvers as those are only right for 4th ed characters now that I think about it.

[timfnj]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

I'm having a very hard time with the idea that character sheet page count=cheating/powergaming/munchkin, having been hit by the fact that HD for me will not print out properly in FireFox (4+ reguardless of settings vs.2 in IE). This is suppose to be a game, not a school report. And one should never think that posting to a board means that the same person can edit code of any kind or need to in order to escape said labels.

[Matt Holck]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

We would have a page for the writeup' date=' one for the background info, and one as a combat cheat sheet..[/quote']

 

as the write up is one page, that character would be allowed

 

 

combat cheat sheet.

http://backin81.blogspot.com/2009/06/solo-module-m1-blizzard-pass-conquered.html

 

in order to evaluate the reasonableness of this proposal' date=' please also tell me the maximum single-sided 8x11 pages in 12 point type which the GM's house rules and campaign guidelines for character construction must fit on.[/quote']

...3x5 index card...

 

Throws take -1 for each mass doubling beyond str

Blocks a take -1 per 5 str opponent has over blocker
Characters can block opponents attacking other people. 

a moving hex adds the velocity chart DCV to its DCV
Mental Illusion and Telepathy check Int for effect instead of Ego

Each opponent attack in the same phase gives -1 dcv to the target
first attack -0 second attack -1 third attack -2...

Anything I feel is appropriate for the situation
within the confines of the shared perception of the setting 

oaff

house rules

guidelines are campaign dependent

 

 

 

I don't think I've had a hand written character come out to even that number. You've either run into the quirk of how HD displays stuff

Hero Design fits a charaxter on one side pretty well

or you're over building

some charcters have abilities they never use

 

 

Then, wouldn't a more reasonable rule be "you don't get to play your character the same day you turn it in for review" thus guaranteeing that you'll have time to look it over and think about it before allowing (or forbidding) it?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks so.

 

Yes, but no one wants to sit out the game

 

...or 18 PRE being 3 1/2d6 PRE Attack or such... New Hero players might appreciate having those things on the sheet though.

Presences often overlooked

I'm considering creating an extended chart for presence attacks

including a Pre-10 slot "managed to get the targets attention"

 

 

Character sheet bloat - and the amount of mechanical design rather than world building - has played into my decision making process for the games I run. I've moved away from games that make extensive use of the powers section. Talents' date=' perks, and skills are king.[/quote']

 

I played a super spy gadgeteer in a super hero world

phase 12 run for cover

phase 3 improvise a weapon

phase 6 set up position

phase 9 make attack

phase 12 run for cover

 

the disguised research was also very fun

 

Yes' date=' I did not understand what the OP was trying to say or ask. But, it's become clear now as the thread has matured.[/quote']

thanks for asking

 

Well' date=' I completely agree with the OP statement. Hero has lots of nuts and bolts in the mechanics, and those of us who are used to them almost feel naked when they're taken away. But Doc Democracy has run a few Hero games which has condensed all of the key information onto a single, well spaced, page. In particular, a memorable League of Extraordinary Gentlemen pastiche that you wouldn't know from the character sheet was even a Hero System game. The trick is to remember that the Hero System is the software engine, it's not the GUI.[/quote']

 

it lists statts in a column

multi-power slots are listed under the multipower

skills are set to there own list

 

there is some visible organization

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

What I find especially amusing about this is that the most common potential game breaking power construct takes very little space on a sheet... a VPP

[The Main Man]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

It sounds like you are having an HD export template issue.

 

Different formats can fit different amounts of information and it also depends on the overall font size that you use.

 

Look around for one that you like.

 

If I may point out some of my own, I made these for myself that can fit most characters onto a single side and maybe go over to about half-way at the most for really long characters.

 

I have not yet seen a single character that would take more than two pages of it - not even Doctor Destroyer gets very far on it, being a mere 1 1/2 pages at most.

[Matt Holck]

Re: The character should fit on one side of one sheet of paper in 12 point type

 

I require a restricted definition of what powers could be used on the variable power power pool based on special effect of powers.

 

after having read a few of the vast supply of Killer Strike's characters and vehicles,

I would add that mental awareness does not come with other mental attacks in my games.