Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

[azato]

I would like to run a game of THE SINISTER SECRET OF SALTMARSH. (yes I know there is a hero conversion out there) and the module writers give no details to the town or many of the personalities. I would like to flesh this area out.

 

First of all - I imagine this portion of Keoland about the same climate/terrain as southern Louisana. The region is sort of bounded by a huge and humanoid populated swamp and vast untamed (goblin infested) forest. The nearest "country" has naval superiority (Sea Barons) and wishes to undermine Keoland. There is a nearby fort. THe town is described as having about 1,500 people...which is fairly good sized.

 

That being said... I am thinking what would be the economy of the region and/or the town of Saltmarsh?

 

*Foremost would be fishing. While whaling is an industry in Keoland the may be better reserved to a closer and larger city of Seaton.

 

* The fort would cause a need for support (small crops, entertainment, alcohol, etc) much like a miliary base today indirectly inputs cash into a local economy.

 

* Ship building would be a possible industry, but maybe focus on smaller boats rather than larger ships.

 

* I am thinking about making this region a site for the manufacture of blue dye - derived from shells (or something like that)

 

*Bricks - a lot of clay.

 

*Nets

 

*Sail making

 

 

 

I imagine the following imports would be very important:

 

* metals - to make into whatever

* grain

* grain alcohol

* salted meat

* stone

* women

* weapons

* cloth

 

 

 

What are your thoughts???

[Cancer]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

Your blue dye could be a swamp plant, sort of like the real-life indigo plant. Another possible export could be wood (if your swamps have trees with rot-resistant wood, that's a trade commodity in that tech) and perhaps leather or hides of swamp animals. Shipbuilding as an industry is unlikely, because that usually means you have a large resident population around there engaged in maritime activity (and so there's lots of the specialist craftsmen already at hand), as well as abundant timber suitable for shipbuilding.

[Kristopher]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

Perhaps instead there's some harvesting of a product that's important for ship-building, such as a plant that produces high-quality fiber for rope, or a resin that makes a good ingredient in water-proofing and/or sealing joints between the hull planks.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

Flax is "retted" in pools of stagnant water. More generally, pre-modern textile industries often flourish where there wasn't other employment.* Textile-manufacture was a huge business in pre-modern times, and it was very competitive. I'm immediately recalling some of Egypt's delta cities, which were big textile towns. Imagine crowded little islands in the middle of a "sea of green," crowded with expert weavers. Their wages were kept low by the fact that weaving was the only game in town, and they were well-fed, thanks mainly to herds that grazed the region in the dry season and which were then culled during the Nile flood, before the herders headed out for the desert ranges of "Libya" and "Arabia" (scare quotes because while the pastures were in those directions, they were mostly within the borders of modern Egypt).

 

 

*Sometimes spectacularly so. The fez, which is practically the stereotyped hat of an Eastern Mediterranean Muslim, used to be produced exclusively in the Fezzan, a region of agricultural oases in central Libya. So if you saw a merchant in Istanbul wearing one of those funny, flat topped hats, you know that it started life in a mud hut in the ancient kingdom of the Garamantes, and was shipped across the Sahara to Tripoli on the back of a camel.

[mayapuppies]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

I'm fascinated by populating any region in a game world, so this kind of thread I like to follow. Please continue with these great ideas.

[Susano]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

This lives out in the swamps:

 

 

Character sheet here:

http://surbrook.devermore.net/original/creatures/grandfather.html

[Old Man]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

Them's good eatin'.

 

There could be a kind of hunting trade out of Saltmarsh too, similar to how the fur trade used to work in the New World. Only instead of fur, the goods would be croc skin and hydraturtle shell.

[Susano]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

Not to mention crawdads and catfish.

[azato]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

So we can add flax derived textiles to the list.

 

Dye could be derived from plant or shellfish....I think I prefer the plant.

 

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Lets says we have a population of about 1,300 residents in the town. How would that break down for the following:

 

1. Bars/Inns

2. Blacksmiths

3. Carpenters

4. Coopers (or would that be imported?)

5. Tanning (I imagine most of the leather would be imported)

6. Leather workers.

 

I think there would be a business for mass preserving raw fish, perhaps serving as rations for sailors (smoked/salted).

 

 

Somebody, somewhere stated that if you take the population of a town you could multiply that number by 3 to get a feel for how many people were in the town for any given day (thus adding people coming for business)

 

The region is probably not very well educated. The author(s?) of the module state that the people are very superstitious and I am going to play that heavy for the module.

 

I was thinking about staying that a group of Olmans were one of the original settlers along this region. They were not conquered so much as absorbed by Keoland and over time became marginalized. Originally the lived in small fishing villages but now play the role of servants and manual laborers. Their skin color and culture keeps them from integrating into the larger culture. I am not sure I will go this route...but it is a possibility.

[Susano]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

So we can add flax derived textiles to the list.

 

Dye could be derived from plant or shellfish....I think I prefer the plant.

 

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Lets says we have a population of about 1,300 residents in the town.

 

That's a huge town when compared to the average middle ages town or village.

 

How would that break down for the following:

 

1. Bars/Inns

2. Blacksmiths

3. Carpenters

4. Coopers (or would that be imported?)

5. Tanning (I imagine most of the leather would be imported)

6. Leather workers.

 

As in how many in a town that size? If you divide the population evenly, you get 400 men, 400 women, and 400 children (with 100 left over). If you figure one tavern serves 100 locals (not all at once mind you) that's 4, maybe 6. You'd have at least one blacksmith, with apprentices. The town is right on the water, so you'll need a lot of carpenter, maybe even a basic shipwrights. And if you have fishing boats, you'll need people to make the rope, sails, and rigging. This means you would have a coopers. There would probably be a tanner if there's a decent supply of local hide (say crocodile?). And there would be multiple leather workers. You also need fishermen, brewers (alewives?), farmers, hunters, candle makers, and tailors.

 

I think there would be a business for mass preserving raw fish, perhaps serving as rations for sailors (smoked/salted).

 

That falls under the fishermen. They'll preserve what they catch.

 

 

Somebody, somewhere stated that if you take the population of a town you could multiply that number by 3 to get a feel for how many people were in the town for any given day (thus adding people coming for business)

 

I find that hard to believe. These days, yes, in a period setting? Not so much.

 

The region is probably not very well educated. The author(s?) of the module state that the people are very superstitious and I am going to play that heavy for the module.

 

I was thinking about staying that a group of Olmans were one of the original settlers along this region. They were not conquered so much as absorbed by Keoland and over time became marginalized. Originally the lived in small fishing villages but now play the role of servants and manual laborers. Their skin color and culture keeps them from integrating into the larger culture. I am not sure I will go this route...but it is a possibility.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

This should help with the numbers and types of businesses present. There was a 2nd ed AD&D product called the World Builder's Guide that's pretty useful, as well, and there used to be PDFs of it available on rpgnow, but it doesn't look like they're there anymore.

[azato]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

Remember....there is an even Larger city Seaton about 30 miles away. A certain level must be achieved to be self-sufficient but not all trades need to be in force to support the city. Obviously the town would need carpenters, and plenty of them, but would it need that many of other trades. Plus we need to have a reason for trade...even if it is slightly exaggerated.

[Susano]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

30 miles is just over a day's travel. The town is going to need tradesmen that can keep things going, especially with a population of 1,300. Their reason for trade is easy -- salted and dried fish, possible shellfish (packed in wet seaweed), and things from the marsh -- turtles, turtle shells, crocodile meat and hides, and so on.

[Old Man]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

30 miles a day? In a swamp?

[Armitage]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

FYI, the Dungeon Master's Guide II (3.5 version) has a complete description of Saltmarsh, although it's set a number of years after the original adventure. The town was flooded with refugees after slavers razed a good portion of Seaton, so it's up to almost 4,000 people, but it could provide a foundation for the older version.

[azato]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

30 miles a day? In a swamp?

 

Heh, look at the map mister! The there is a fort to the west that borders the great Hool swamp. The town itself is not in a swamp and the road to the next town is in the direction away from the swamp. Now why the town's name is Saltmarsh, who knows?

[azato]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

Hmmm. Now I need to get find a copy since I don't own and have never read DMG 3.5. Thanks.

[Susano]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

30 miles a day? In a swamp?

 

Actually, I think 20 miles is a day's travel. Provided you have the terrain. In a swamp? Who knows.

[Markdoc]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

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Lets says we have a population of about 1,300 residents in the town. How would that break down for the following:

 

1. Bars/Inns

 

If there's trade, ie: people passing through, there'll be inns. How many depends on how much trade. Given that Saltmarsh appears to be on a major road, there'll be at least one one or two in the town itself. Probably in fact more than one given that it looks like it's 20 miles or so to Seaton making it a good day's travel. If passengers travel much by sea, they'll want an inn too. I'm guessing, probably two inns, though you might get by with one large one. Bars? Many - if there are sailors stopping by on a regular basis, many, many. A dozen? Maybe more. In medieval times a lot of bars were actually simply the front room of somebody's house, or even a lean-to that could be folded away at night. That's still true today in many places. In a lot of African villages, you pass through there might be one "real bar" and 6 houses with an upside-down cup on a stick outside which means "cheap drinks available here". 1400 people, a fishing village, on a major road - anywhere from 2-12 bars is not beyond the bounds of possibility depending on how big they are.

 

2. Blacksmiths

 

Given that there's both a city and a fort nearby, both of which will have their own, I'm guessing one. Maybe two.

 

3. Carpenters

 

Carpentry woodshops? Maybe none. Carpenters in medieval times tended to either be guild members (meaning city) or itinerant. A lot of woodwork you can do yourself or get done by a friend and a town (1400 people is really a town rather than a village) within a day's walk of a city probably wouldn't have enough work for a full time carpentry workshop: if you wanted something fancy, you could get it from the city.

 

4. Coopers (or would that be imported?)

 

Coopers on the other hand there might well be several of - many of the goods you are talking about (dye, salted fish, etc) will go in barrels so there'll be a constant demand and enough work making them. You could always get them from the city, but that adds two day's travel (there and back) to the cost of each lot of barrels. I'm guessing it would be more economic to make them on the spot.

 

5. Tanning (I imagine most of the leather would be imported)

 

You don't import hides, if you don't have to. They rot and even salt-cured, they stink. They're heavy, too. Tanning is usually done near to where you slaughter the animals. That said, there's a lot of open land north of Saltmarsh - if cattle are raised there, they might be driven to town to slaughter and the hides tanned as well. I'm guessing probably not though. Medieval cities have an inexhaustible demand for meat, so it'd probably make sense to drive the cattle to Seaton and slaughter them there. The hides might come to Saltmarsh if the city forbids tanneries, but most likely the tanneries will be on the road outside Seaton, is my guess.

 

6. Leather workers.

 

One hides are tanned, they are easy to move - so there might well be leather workers. I'm guessing, though that these are likely to be found in Seaton, instead. Why ship tanned hides to Saltmarsh, if the hides are already right where larger market exists? It's cheaper to put the finished leather goods on a ship and sail em up to Saltmarsh, if you need 'em

 

I think there would be a business for mass preserving raw fish, perhaps serving as rations for sailors (smoked/salted).

 

This sounds like a good idea. Bulk preservation is not something that fishermen tend to do themselves, because preserving fish (or any sort of meat) takes a lot of time. You need to decide how it is preserved. Saltmarsh is on the sea, so they can make salt in pans. That's a labour and time expensive business, so if it's done that way, there'll be big salt pans nearby and poor people to work them. People who made salt (as opposed to their bosses) have always been among the poorest of the poor - it's horrible, backbreaking work. The requirement for lots of coastal land makes the business less attractive to cities, so this is a logical job for Saltmarsh. Alternatively, there's a swamp right next door - charcoal burners could operate there, cutting wood and providing fuel for smoking fish. I that case the town would have lots of smokers outside the town walls (because of the risk of fire). Which you go for depends on climate. Damp and humid? Not so good for salt pans (still possible though: that case you use fire to heat and evaporate the brine out of metal pans). Either way, if preserving fish is a major business, there'll be sheds for gutting fish, sheds for hanging it up to cure the town will have a "certain odor" and you will definitely need coopers and woodcutters. A third option - not as much used, but possible - is to ferment the fish instead. Fermented fish is more expensive and heavier to transport, but was considered a luxury a lot of places.

 

Somebody, somewhere stated that if you take the population of a town you could multiply that number by 3 to get a feel for how many people were in the town for any given day (thus adding people coming for business)

 

In Medieval europe (and today, in places where people travel by foot or animal) people tended not to travel to shop the way we do - instead they come to market (often once a week). That way you can be sure that if you have stuff to sell, there'll be buyers - an important point when a lot of things were difficult to preserve or had limited market size. It also means relatively few travelers most of the week and then 3-5 times as many people one day of the week. Of course, not all towns had markets. Bearing in mind that Seaton is close by, I'm guessing you'll have at most a farmers' market once a week and a bigger market in Seaton that would draw more specialized goods.

 

If you don't have markets (or even if you do) there's also a place for merchants. While Seaton is only a day away, it's a PITA to make a two day trip (or one really long day) to get one or two items. A merchant could make a living loading up on small items that people used regularly (like pins, thread, fancy trimmings for clothes, horn for lanterns, candles, glass for windows, cooking pots, etc) and ordering stuff for them and then either fetching it himself or having it dropped off from a ship. If much shipping goes through the port - and there are fishermen - you'll also have a place for a chandler who sells pulleys, rope, tar, canvas, etc. There might even be place for a ropemaker. I'm guessing there probably won't be shipyards. The logical places for those are Anglor or Torvin where there's either plenty of wood close to hand, or you can send it down the river to town.

 

Last of all, what about religion? There's probably going to be one or more temples, possibly with a hostel for travellers.

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

Heh' date=' look at the map mister! The there is a fort to the west that borders the great Hool swamp. The town itself is not in a swamp and the road to the next town is in the direction away from the swamp. Now why the town's name is Saltmarsh, who knows?[/quote']

 

I'm guessing ... because the marsh is salty? It's on the coast after all. That tells you right there it's either saltgrass country, mangroves or - given what you wrote before - tidal bayou (cue orcs with banjos!)

 

When I ran this scenario for my guys, I changed the name to Salterton, and put the village at the top of a cliff, with a winding path down to a narrow harbour, making it a cross between a slightly Lovecraftian New England fishing village and a Cornish fishing village. It had precisely two industries. Fishing and smuggling. Maybe three if you count looting the flotsam from ships wrecked on the rocky coast.

 

cheers, Mark

[AlHazred]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

I loved the original Saltmarsh, and used it in my Fantasy Hero games in college. I wasn't too concerned with fleshing things out as much then. Sinister Secret was the first of a three-part series of modules produced by the UK branch of TSR. If the plot seems better fleshed than a lot of the other modules TSR used to put out, you can thank the gamers of Britain for their contributions to the hobby.

 

I would avoid the bits of Saltmarsh in the Player's Handbook II for 3.5. The feel of the town was completely different: in the original, I got the feeling it was a rough-and-tumble port town, where it was usually every-man-for-himself; the new version seems more polished and gaudy. They have an image that's supposed to be from Saltmarsh, which shows a casino with a statue of a Dryad on it that's got to be 40 feet high! That's not the sort of thing that has a place in my game, but YMMV.

 

The sequels in the U series of modules (U for Underwater, I suppose) are Danger at Dunwater and The Final Enemy. I don't want to spoil things too much, but they have far less detail about the town, although they are all related to Saltmarsh. Probably worth skimming.

[Armitage]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

Also regarding the 3.5 version, it's stated that Saltmarsh has become the base of operations for adventurers exploring the Hool Marshes and surrounding areas, so there has been an influx of people with much more money than common sense and taste, with appropriate effects on the character of the town.

[azato]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

The plan is to make this more of a sword and sorcery tale. There will be no magic items and no magic mouths. My goal is to play up on the paranoia....

 

The original owner was a dabbling sorcerer who, with most of his servants (all Olman) died in his secret lab in the basement when a summoning went VERY wrong. One man made it out and when to town for help. He was panicked and excited (and can barely speak Keoish) and the towns people realize something bad has happened. They go there but cannot find anybody and everything seems like the people just disappeared. They do hear some unearthly shrieks but cannot find the source. They are a superstious people and they leave...post haste. The servant leaves unannounced and disappears.

 

One his way back to home he sails with smugglers (Sea Princes) and tells them all. Time + alcohol + guilt loosens his tongue. What interests them the most is the secret access from the sea to the home and realize that this would make a perfect place to smuggle their goods.

 

They kill the servant and threw him in the sea (close to land) ) knowing he would wash up on the shore. They also posed as merchants coming from Seaton and remarked about strange things happening on the property. They started playing a very shrill Oman instrument at odd hours that made horrible shrieking noises. The started killing animals and throwing them around the perimeter.

 

Before this time people believed the place was haunted. A number of calamities that befallen people associated with the house (like those who went there that first night) were attributed to that place. Kids and others who went by the place reported strange and horrible things (imaginations gone wild). So when the smugglers came it took little effort to push the townspeople over the edge. The road that went past the property has been rerouted.

 

The neighboring farmland goes unused. The owner cannot get anybody to work it. He (a merchant) hires the PCs to figure out what is going on.

[Matt Holck]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

a town on built on a maze of bridges

and cold wind and the cackle and cries of sea birds

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Populating and fleshing out Saltmarsh

 

Here is some reeeeeeeeally old material from a GreyHERO campaign I ran in that area around 12 years or so ago; might have something of use:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/ADDConv/places/places.htm

 

and an old Greyhawk map of keoland:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/ADDConv/places/Maps/keoland.jpg

 

 

I just pulled this stuff out of my archives, so don't be shocked if some of the dependent links don't resolve.