Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

[Rapier]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

I've never liked hit locations. It eventually devolves to eververyone calling out "Shot to the head". If it was random then that would not be as bad, but how do you justify not allowing people to attack specific body parts intentially if they can hit them unintentionally?

 

Like some of the other posters said, even very low level enemies can beat you down with low powered attacks given damage multiples. Very un-heroic to be able to stand up to Ogre for minutes, but being taken out by a gang of 12 thugs with knives in a couple phases.

 

I think the rules are best that the damage has the Def applied first, otherwise Def is way less effective. Would a Def 10 force field be weaker around the head?

 

Hit Locations are two entirely separate topics, even if they ARE half-brothers. Called Shots have some serious penalties associated with them. You want to take a shot to the head every time? What's your OCV? 6? Ok, you need to roll a 9 or less.

 

However, the rest I wholeheartedly agree with. A pimp slap to the head isn't going to somehow magically make it through Defender's armour simply because it hits him on the head.

[Broadsword]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

Maybe it does with the people you play with.

That is overly True!

 

In almost every system, the two players I am playing with now go for "called shot head". If the option is available.

 

You do know that there are penalties to making called shots, right?

Sure, but if the option is allowed the rules monkeys will just add CSLs to counter, and they do more damage for their CPs that way.

 

Broadsword -}--->

[Broadsword]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

Hit Locations are two entirely separate topics, even if they ARE half-brothers. Called Shots have some serious penalties associated with them. You want to take a shot to the head every time? What's your OCV? 6? Ok, you need to roll a 9 or less.

 

However, the rest I wholeheartedly agree with. A pimp slap to the head isn't going to somehow magically make it through Defender's armour simply because it hits him on the head.

I agree it is mainly a GMing issue. The rules as written probably are not the problem. It is the allowing of players who Min/Max their characters and abusing the rules by the GM because it is easier that would ruin it. It is simply easier for our current GM and most our other games too, to just take out the most abused rules.

[Ice9]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

It is the allowing of players who Min/Max their characters and abusing the rules by the GM because it is easier that would ruin it.

You don't need some crazy-high CVs to get headshots, you just need the right situation - a situation that can easily occur in normal gameplay using normal tactics. Let's say an enemy gets knocked down or grabbed - a pretty common occurrence. That's 1/2 DCV, and if the normal OCV/DCV is 12, that's 75% of the way to a free headshot! If they were Entangled (or hit by a powerful Presence attack), a headshot is basically guaranteed. Sure, the Entangle might provide some defense (depending on what advantages it has), but since this houserule multiplies it pre-defense, it will still be a likely KO.

[Jhamin]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

My take on Hit Locations in Hero System was that it was best used as a "campaign dial" to determine how brutal combat was in that universe.

 

- Standard Marvel and DC comics don't use hit locations. Superhumans can take a hit from other superhumans the way normal humans can take hits from other humans. When Spiderman and Green Goblin fight there are bruises and bloody noses even though the scenery gets demolished. If somebody gets one-shotted they either were surprised or it is a demonstration of how out of their league they are.

 

- Invincible, The Authority, Gen 13, etc use hit locations. When superhumans fight each other, organs are ruptured and heads explode. When someone gets one-shotted it is because they were hit by something that can shatter tank armor and they aren't made of stuff as strong as tank armor.

 

As I read it, is isn't that superhumans are more or less strong or tough than superhumans in other universes, it comes down do "does that damage get multiplied or not"?

[dmjalund]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

You don't need some crazy-high CVs to get headshots' date=' you just need the right situation - a situation that can easily occur in normal gameplay using normal tactics. Let's say an enemy gets knocked down or grabbed - a pretty common occurrence. That's 1/2 DCV, and if the normal OCV/DCV is 12, that's 75% of the way to a free headshot! If they were Entangled (or hit by a powerful Presence attack), a headshot is basically guaranteed. Sure, the Entangle might provide some defense (depending on what advantages it has), but since this houserule multiplies it pre-defense, it will still be a likely KO.[/quote']That's why IMO one shouldn't house rule multiplying pre-defense

[JmOz]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

I have used hit location for called shots only for a while, with little problem. To the original poster, Your big problem was the non persistant defence, you save some, but it costs you sometimes...

[Matt Holck]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

stun multiplier for kill attacks have always been applied before defense

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

stun multiplier for kill attacks have always been applied before defense

Page reference for any edition please.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

Page reference for any edition please.

4th Edition: Page 160.

5th Edition, Revised: Pages 405 & 409.

6th Edition: 6E2 pages 98 and 103.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

Hmmm, true. I also can't help noticing, mind, that whenever the STUN multiplier for killing attacks dropped from the 1d6-1 I remember in 4E to the 1/2d6 that 6E uses the Hit Location table was apparently not adjusted to account for this -- you still get x4 and x5 STUN from just hitting the right spots.

 

Makes me honestly wonder if a better mechanic might not be "roll BODY, roll STUNx normally to get base STUN damage, determine location, and then apply the BODY and N STUN modifiers for that after defenses"...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

Hmmm' date=' true. I also can't help noticing, mind, that whenever the STUN multiplier for killing attacks dropped from the 1d6-1 I remember in 4E to the 1/2d6 that 6E uses the Hit Location table was apparently not adjusted to account for this -- you still get x4 and x5 STUN from just hitting the right spots.[/quote']

 

There was a conscious decision made to NOT adjust the hit locations chart. You also get x1.5 and 2x STUN for normal atacks when you hit those right spots, giving a similar volatility advantage to normal attacks which levels out the STUN lottery aspect of 1d6-1 killing attacks.

 

In 5e, the Stun multiple made KA's more volatile than normal attacks. The hit location chart leveled the playing field by making normal attacks volatile as well. 6e simply reduces the volatility of KA's in games not using the hit locations chart to better level the playing field (and make killing attacks more useful for killing than for laying some STUN on high defense targets through a lucky roll) in games not using hit locations.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

There was a conscious decision made to NOT adjust the hit locations chart. You also get x1.5 and 2x STUN for normal atacks when you hit those right spots' date=' giving a similar volatility advantage to normal attacks which levels out the STUN lottery aspect of 1d6-1 killing attacks.[/quote']

Yes, I get 1.5 and 2x STUN for normal attacks as well. The difference being that with normal attacks, I get that extra STUN after applying any relevant defenses; with killing attacks, the multiplier from the hit location table meanwhile gives me the 'base' STUN from the KA before defenses, potentially rendering that attack that much more potent. Which kind of brings us full circle back to the thread topic, I think...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

You do know that there are penalties to making called shots' date=' right?[/quote']

 

There is sometimes a problem with players calling shots versus very large opponents, like giants or dragons, who as officially statted have significant DCV penalties of their own due to their size. It becomes much easier to target their heads, making creatures that should be among the toughest foes for heroes to overcome, paradoxically easier to drop.

[Rapier]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

There is sometimes a problem with players calling shots versus very large opponents' date=' like giants or dragons, who as officially statted have significant DCV penalties of their own due to their size. It becomes much easier to target their heads, making creatures that should be among the toughest foes for heroes to overcome, paradoxically easier to drop.[/quote']

 

Well, keep in mind dramatic license.

 

GM: The dragon tries to bite you.

Warrior: I call a shot to his head!

GM: You hit, and the dragon now keeps his head 10m above the floor and out of reach.

 

Among other things, most creatures are going to be very protective of their head. I would very much expect more Blocks, Dodges or even moving beyond range. Just because they're big doesn't make them stupid.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

To be fair, those tactics aren't going to help much if the creature's primary attack is a bite, so it has to bring its head within reach. It's also rather outside genre for big, heavily-armored creatures like a dragon to do a lot of bobbing and weaving. And in HERO such actions will use up a lot of Phases, and large creatures tend to be written with lower SPD due to their bulk. Even if they do stay well back, the heroes can start unlimbering their bows.

[dmjalund]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

To be fair' date=' those tactics aren't going to help much if the creature's primary attack is a bite, so it has to bring its head within reach. It's also rather outside genre for big, heavily-armored creatures like a dragon to do a lot of bobbing and weaving. And in HERO such actions will use up a lot of Phases, and large creatures tend to be written with lower SPD due to their bulk. Even if they do stay well back, the heroes can start unlimbering their bows.[/quote']remember - dragons primary attack is supposed to be their breath

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

remember - dragons primary attack is supposed to be their breath

"Supposed to be?" Besides just arbitrarily limiting options, that statement isn't even true of some cultures depiction of "dragons" or similar creatures...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Hit Locations in Super-Hero Game?

 

Okay, then cross out "dragon" and fill in "giant," "wyvern," "Shelob," "Midgard Serpent," or your preferred supersized beastie.