Death Touch

[Chuckem]

Hey all.

 

Designing a new female character whose primary ability is a touch attack which just outright kills people. It works through clothing and even armour but is strongest with direct skin contact. She can do other things through touch but they are minor. My question is how to treat this, HKA or Body Drain?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Death Touch

 

Does it affect non-living targets?

 

If not, I'd go with a Transform instead with various Advantages and Limitations to flavor appropriately.

[Chuckem]

Re: Death Touch

 

her powers work only on living tissue...

[Bloodstone]

Re: Death Touch

 

I'd either use a KA, NND, Does Body or Drain Body, possibly with additional limited dice if you want it to be more effective via skin contact.

 

Only vs Living tissue would almost certainly earn a limitation, but how much it would get is pretty campaign dependent...

[Lucius]

Re: Death Touch

 

Does it affect non-living targets?

 

If not, I'd go with a Transform instead with various Advantages and Limitations to flavor appropriately.

 

Transform is specifically not supposed to be used to kill people.

 

Does it every only injure someone? or is it "all or nothing?"

 

I wonder if you can Dispel Body?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

All or nothing palindromedary

[Chuckem]

Re: Death Touch

 

I am thinking it will kill outright all but the hardiest of beings and still being quite a shock to those who survive it. Something even Supes won't take lightly. She is mostly normal aside from this ability.

 

Forgive me but I am still relatively inexperienced with the intricacies of the game...

[Lucius]

Re: Death Touch

 

Using 6th edition?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

House of the Palindromedary

[Badger]

Re: Death Touch

 

Didnt the original Star Trek series have an episode with a woman on a planet they were exploring who could do that? (though I think she had to call their name, and of course, the redshirt bit it)

 

Anyhow, maybe similar lim of some sort might be a good idea, just in case this gets a little unbalancing.

[Major Tom 2009]

Re: Death Touch

 

Didnt the original Star Trek series have an episode with a woman on a planet they were exploring who could do that? (though I think she had to call their name, and of course, the redshirt bit it)

 

Anyhow, maybe similar lim of some sort might be a good idea, just in case this gets a little unbalancing.

 

 

It sure did. Lee Merriweather was the alien construct in that particular episode (Kalindra was "her"

name, IIRC). And it wasn't that she had to call out the name of her target before applying the

cellular disruption touch; "she" was simply informing the target that he was about to be killed, and

that her attack was focussed on that one person alone.

 

 

Major Tom 2009

[Haerandir]

Re: Death Touch

 

I am thinking it will kill outright all but the hardiest of beings and still being quite a shock to those who survive it. Something even Supes won't take lightly. She is mostly normal aside from this ability.

 

Forgive me but I am still relatively inexperienced with the intricacies of the game...

 

You probably want Drain BODY 6d6 or thereabouts. That will subtract 21 BOD from the target, on average, which will kill just about any 'ordinary' human outright and either kill or incapacitate most supers, unless they have bought their BODY way up, or have Power Defense. And unless they have 25 Power Defense or more, they'll probably know they're in trouble. So, even a Superman-type should worry about it.

 

Bloodstone is right, the value of "Only vs. Living Tissue" as a Power Limitation is a judgement call, depending on the campaign and the GM's preferences. In a 'standard' superhero campaign, I'd probably call it a -1, since it can't be used against bank vaults, robots, ghosts, zombies, vampires, energy beings, some aliens and most golems. But you could definitely make a case for it being a lesser value, particularly if the character is an assassin or non-organic characters are relatively rare.

[Haerandir]

Re: Death Touch

 

Using 6th edition?

 

This is a valid question. In 6th Edition, a 6d6 Drain vs. BODY will have the effect I described. In earlier editions, when BODY cost more, you'll need a 12d6 Drain to get the same effect. Which is probably OK for a one-trick pony NPC, but is fairly prohibitive for most PCs. That's something to bear in mind.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Death Touch

 

This is a valid question. In 6th Edition' date=' a 6d6 Drain vs. BODY will have the effect I described. In earlier editions, when BODY cost more, you'll need a 12d6 Drain to get the same effect. Which is probably OK for a one-trick pony NPC, but is fairly prohibitive for most PCs. That's something to bear in mind.[/quote']

 

Actually, it will still have to be a 12d6 drain, since Body is treated as a defense power for purposes of adjustment powers in 6th Edition. But you can reduce that cost with the appropriate limitations now--no range, must make skin to skin contact, etc.

[Haerandir]

Re: Death Touch

 

Excellent point. I do wish that was mentioned directly in the description of Drain, even with just a page reference to 6E1 141. I tend to forget stuff like that if it's not right in front of me.

 

So, yeah... New answer! 12d6 Drain vs. BODY it is.

 

Shame. I actually liked the idea of a 6d6 Drain vs. BODY being a viable power. It would have created a compelling argument for raising your BOD above 10.

[Chimera 12]

Re: Death Touch

 

Going off on a bit of a tangent, I'm suddenly wondering how any resulting fractions from that "half effect" rule should be rounded.

 

See, on closer reading the rounding rule on 6E1 12/13 doesn't really seem to concern itself with anything but Character Point costs, so it's not necessarily clear that it can be generalized to also apply to damage/effect rolls. And even assuming it can (which isn't really that much of a stretch, granted), the fact that it tells us to round fractions of .5 in whichever way would be "best for the character" could easily inject a dose of subjectivity where it's least wanted, namely in combat. Say you do have a 6d6 Drain BODY and roll 21 on the dice -- does that now mean that you drain 11 BODY if your target is a legitimate villain, but only 10 if you accidentally hit a teammate or innocent bystander? How does your power know the difference? (For that matter, if you use an armor-piercing attack and the original defense before halving is an odd number, do you round in favor of the attacker or the defender, and does it depend on whether or not either character is a PC?)

 

Mind, it's always entirely possible that I'm just being obtuse here. I assure you that it's not deliberate, though.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Death Touch

 

I think Body being cheaper, and a character with higher body being harder to kill or injure is a compelling enough argument.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Death Touch

 

I am thinking it will kill outright all but the hardiest of beings and still being quite a shock to those who survive it. Something even Supes won't take lightly. She is mostly normal aside from this ability.

 

Forgive me but I am still relatively inexperienced with the intricacies of the game...

 

Ok, since you are new...

 

1) Are there any point limits/caps on character design?

 

2) Drain BODY and various other "non standard" attacks often raise a red flag. Make sure the GM is ok with the concept. Death Touch isn't an overly common ability for Super Heroes and it may not fit the tone of the campaign. Many GM's frown on heroes killing at all. Of course, this is assuming she is a hero in the first place. Not really sure without details.

 

3) Also hard to say without more details about the character, but it sounds like you MAY be building a one trick pony/glass cannon type. Characters like this are often staggeringly ineffective and end up being very boring to play. For example, if the character lacks movement powers to get into the think of battle, she may not be able to use her devastating touch attack very often. If she's "mostly normal" she may lacks the defenses to stay on her feet long enough to be useful. Certainly, as soon as it becomes known she kills with a touch, she will become a primary target.

 

Just some stuff to consider.

[Haerandir]

Re: Death Touch

 

I think Body being cheaper' date=' and a character with higher body being harder to kill or injure is a compelling enough argument. [/quote']

 

Harder to kill? Slightly. Harder to injure? Not at all.

 

I have, very infrequently, built characters with more than 10 BOD purely because it fit the character concept. The reduction in cost as of 6th edition makes that option slightly more palatable than before, but it's the difference between 'comically overpriced' and 'merely inefficient'. All other things being equal, I'd rather spend the same number of points on powers which kept me from being hit, or caused me to take less damage. Soaking up more damage is a distant third on the list, possibly even fourth behind 'better attacks to stop my opponents from attacking me to begin with'.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Death Touch

 

Harder to kill? Slightly. Harder to injure? Not at all.

 

I have, very infrequently, built characters with more than 10 BOD purely because it fit the character concept. The reduction in cost as of 6th edition makes that option slightly more palatable than before, but it's the difference between 'comically overpriced' and 'merely inefficient'. All other things being equal, I'd rather spend the same number of points on powers which kept me from being hit, or caused me to take less damage. Soaking up more damage is a distant third on the list, possibly even fourth behind 'better attacks to stop my opponents from attacking me to begin with'.

 

For 10 points, you're literally twice as hard to kill, and twice as hard to injure(i.e., disabling or impairing wounds require twice as much damage). For 20, three times as hard to kill. 10 points of resistant defense for both pd and ed costs 30 points. 20 points apiece costs 60 points. The amount of extra resistant defense one could buy for 20 points(about 6-7 points of each), compared to the benefits one receives from having 30 body, should be a wash, imo.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Death Touch

 

Harder to kill? Slightly. Harder to injure? Not at all.

 

I have, very infrequently, built characters with more than 10 BOD purely because it fit the character concept. The reduction in cost as of 6th edition makes that option slightly more palatable than before, but it's the difference between 'comically overpriced' and 'merely inefficient'. All other things being equal, I'd rather spend the same number of points on powers which kept me from being hit, or caused me to take less damage. Soaking up more damage is a distant third on the list, possibly even fourth behind 'better attacks to stop my opponents from attacking me to begin with'.

 

For 10 points' date=' you're literally twice as hard to kill, and twice as hard to injure(i.e., disabling or impairing wounds require twice as much damage). For 20, three times as hard to kill. 10 points of resistant defense for both pd and ed costs 30 points. 20 points apiece costs 60 points. The amount of extra resistant defense one could buy for 20 points(about 6-7 points of each), compared to the benefits one receives from having 30 body, should be a wash, imo.[/quote']

Especially since the extra Body will help against a Body DRAIN like the one being discussed, or Alternate Defense (I forget the 6E term) attacks that will bipass normal rPD/rED.

 

EDIT: Is the success of Transforms still based on the Body of the target in 6E? If so, there's another advantage...

[Haerandir]

Re: Death Touch

 

For 10 points' date=' you're literally twice as hard to kill, and twice as hard to injure(i.e., disabling or impairing wounds require twice as much damage). For 20, three times as hard to kill. 10 points of resistant defense for both pd and ed costs 30 points. 20 points apiece costs 60 points. The amount of extra resistant defense one could buy for 20 points(about 6-7 points of each), compared to the benefits one receives from having 30 body, should be a wash, imo.[/quote']

 

For the same 10 points, you can have:

 

+3 rPD/+3 rED: which turns hits that do 1-3 BODY into hits that do 0 BODY, or major injuries into minor ones, with a point left over to boot.

+2 DCV: Which causes attacks that would otherwise hit on 11- to miss more than half the time

Regeneration: which turns weeks of recuperation time into minutes or hours

Not to mention Invisibility, Shapeshift, Images, Change Environment, Darkness... Any of the dozens of powers that allow you to avoid getting hit or perhaps even getting into a fight in the first place. The list goes on and on.

 

Compared to: +10 BODY, which maybe allows you to survive a couple of extra hits per session, then go rest in the hospital for a few days. Woo!

 

The effects of higher point values of BOD vs. higher point values of actual defense only multiply the disparity.

 

I don't consider Transform, Drain BOD or AVAD/NND attacks that do BODY much of an issue, specifically because they are so rare and expensive that they're almost always plot devices, and because the appropriate defenses (Power Defense, etc.) generally end up being so cheap in comparison to buying enough BODY to meaningfully offset them on the occasions they DO come up. If Drain BODY were cheap enough that it could become a standard attack power, instead of a rare 'special event', then BODY would become a cost-effective alternative to buying some combination of Resistant PD/ED and Power Defense.

 

The takeaway from this is: If you're routinely taking Body damage (at least in a superheroic campaign), then either your defenses are too low, or you decided to sacrifice defenses in favor of your character concept. If the latter, good for you! If the former, fix the problem, not the symptom.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Death Touch

 

I don't consider Transform' date=' Drain BOD or AVAD/NND attacks that do BODY much of an issue, specifically because they are so rare and expensive that they're almost always plot devices, and because the appropriate defenses (Power Defense, etc.) generally end up being so cheap in comparison to buying enough BODY to meaningfully offset them on the occasions they DO come up. If Drain BODY were cheap enough that it could become a standard attack power, instead of a rare 'special event', then BODY [i']would [/i]become a cost-effective alternative to buying some combination of Resistant PD/ED and Power Defense.

 

The takeaway from this is: If you're routinely taking Body damage (at least in a superheroic campaign), then either your defenses are too low, or you decided to sacrifice defenses in favor of your character concept. If the latter, good for you! If the former, fix the problem, not the symptom.

Drain, Transform, and AVAD combined are all so rare that they are plot devices? Wow. I can think of about 20 Transforms form official Champions characters off the top of my head and 1/2 dozen NND powers. You've never played with a PC that had a Transform or a NND? Sounds pretty boring for a superhero game full of fantastic powers.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Death Touch

 

For the same 10 points, you can have:

 

+3 rPD/+3 rED: which turns hits that do 1-3 BODY into hits that do 0 BODY, or major injuries into minor ones, with a point left over to boot.

+2 DCV: Which causes attacks that would otherwise hit on 11- to miss more than half the time

Regeneration: which turns weeks of recuperation time into minutes or hours

Not to mention Invisibility, Shapeshift, Images, Change Environment, Darkness... Any of the dozens of powers that allow you to avoid getting hit or perhaps even getting into a fight in the first place. The list goes on and on.

 

Compared to: +10 BODY, which maybe allows you to survive a couple of extra hits per session, then go rest in the hospital for a few days. Woo!

 

The effects of higher point values of BOD vs. higher point values of actual defense only multiply the disparity.

 

I don't consider Transform, Drain BOD or AVAD/NND attacks that do BODY much of an issue, specifically because they are so rare and expensive that they're almost always plot devices, and because the appropriate defenses (Power Defense, etc.) generally end up being so cheap in comparison to buying enough BODY to meaningfully offset them on the occasions they DO come up. If Drain BODY were cheap enough that it could become a standard attack power, instead of a rare 'special event', then BODY would become a cost-effective alternative to buying some combination of Resistant PD/ED and Power Defense.

 

The takeaway from this is: If you're routinely taking Body damage (at least in a superheroic campaign), then either your defenses are too low, or you decided to sacrifice defenses in favor of your character concept. If the latter, good for you! If the former, fix the problem, not the symptom.

 

in a 12 damage class game, 4d6 KAs are not uncommon, and if it's an innate power, then it's one that can be pushed and haymakered up to 6d6 KA. And if you've already purchased as much resistant defense as the GM says is justified by character concept, then buying some extra body is a good way to improve survivability. Some GMs now cap resistant defenses in order to make KAs more, well, dangerous.

[Ice9]

Re: Death Touch

 

I would say that for characters with Regeneration (or good access to Healing), extra BODY is definitely worth it. For those without, it might still be worth it (for Transforms and such), but you really don't want to be taking any BODY at all, given the sloooow healing times involved.

 

As far as the OP, I'd agree that you should check with your GM on how well this character will fit into the game. Having a touch deadly enough to knock most foes out of commission can leave you in a problematic zone. If you have enough CV/Movement/Defense to effectively use it, the character could single-handedly trash most opposition. If you don't, then expect to spend a lot of time chasing faster-moving enemies or KO'd by their initial strike.

[dmjalund]

Re: Death Touch

 

...and 1/2 dozen NND powers....

how many of those NNDs did body?

[Mr Reasonable]

Re: Death Touch

 

Does a 'death touch' have to be instant?

 

Death touch: Drain BODY 2d6, Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Death magic defences; +0), Persistent (+1/4), Constant (+1/2), Uncontrolled (Turned off by any healing magic; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Expanded Effect (Body and CON simultaneously) (+1/2) (65 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Reduced effect through clothing (half effect through normal clothing, 1/3 effect through heavy clothing, no effect through thicker clothing); -1/2)