Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

[Arc Esu]

I'm not sure if this belongs in the Star Hero thread, but I figure I'll get more responses here.

 

How would you build the harpoon and tow cable "weapon" that the snowspeeders use in The Empire Strikes Back? While some kind of Stretching or TK build could work for non-combat applications, I'm more interested in how to build the "tripping a gigantic walker" part.

 

My initial ideas are:

 

A massive TK with extra time, physical manifestation, Requires a combat piloting roll, and other appropriate limitations

 

An entangle that doesn't protect the walker, again with extra time, Requires a combat piloting roll, and so on

 

A blast with double KB, with custom "only to knockdown" limitation, plus other appropriate limitations

 

 

Any thoughts on which of these three would be most appropriate? Or any other build ideas out there?

[Escafarc]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

I would go with Stretching and the rules for Grab.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

I would go with Stretching and the rules for Grab.

 

The Walkers would need some kind of Disad making them easy to trip, though, otherwise the Strength differential would make it impossible for the tiny Speeder to grab/throw the Walker.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

There's a linegun writeup in HSEG that could be adapted fairly easily.

[Escafarc]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

The Walkers would need some kind of Disad making them easy to trip' date=' though, otherwise the Strength differential would make it impossible for the tiny Speeder to grab/throw the Walker.[/quote']

 

Extra STR for this manuever and I would think that the Walkers had to have some kind of Vulnerability to this attack because why would there be harpoon guns in the first place.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

I'd use TK, and have them trip the walker

[Christopher]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

This may be far fetched, but what about transform?

Being a big, heavy armored killing machine could be modelled mostly with damage reduction so it would be succeptible to transforms (realtively low body). And they can't seem to get up on their own one they are down, so transform would fit that part nicely (or this is another part of the entire tripping complication).

 

From what I read in Star Wars d6 Fluff, the cables weren't meant to trip walkers. Luke just made that up on the fly.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

Extra STR for this manuever and I would think that the Walkers had to have some kind of Vulnerability to this attack because why would there be harpoon guns in the first place.

 

I've wondered that for some time, myself. According to Wookieepedia, the T-47 Airspeeder:

"was an atmospheric vehicle designed for industrial cargo handling. Its cockpit featured positions for a forward-facing pilot and a rear-facing cargo manager. The cargo manager used the airspeeder's magnetic harpoon and tow cable to control repulsorlift cargo modules." So, the tow cables are for handling cargo; the use of it against the walkers was an improvised tactic.

[Martin2]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

I've wondered that for some time, myself. According to Wookieepedia, the T-47 Airspeeder:

"was an atmospheric vehicle designed for industrial cargo handling. Its cockpit featured positions for a forward-facing pilot and a rear-facing cargo manager. The cargo manager used the airspeeder's magnetic harpoon and tow cable to control repulsorlift cargo modules." So, the tow cables are for handling cargo; the use of it against the walkers was an improvised tactic.

 

So the harpoon was a telekenetic only on ferrous metals with a limited range only to grapple.

 

Either this had lots of excess strength or indeed a limitation for the walker.

[Christopher]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

So the harpoon was a telekenetic only on ferrous metals with a limited range only to grapple.

 

Either this had lots of excess strength or indeed a limitation for the walker.

Technically, the harppons dos not let him fall. Moving while his legs are tied, that is what let's them fall.

So this is more like applying a limitation with transform/change environment to add a side-effect to the walkers running.

[Escafarc]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

Since this was a one time thing, maybe Luke used a HAP and a Combat Piloting Roll.

[Christopher]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

Since this was a one time thing' date=' maybe Luke used a HAP and a Combat Piloting Roll.[/quote']

It was a one time thing when Luke made it the first time. But the tactic is so easy, you can just re-use it in the future. Could easily be in the book about "how to counter a AT-AT".

 

Another aproach:

It's a form of the tripping maneuver, made with an entangle. Like a Bola against a human.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

Ah. Only in HERO is it complicated to build a tow cable.

[Beast]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

entangle must be targeted to break free,offers no def to target

falling was just the SFX of the entangle(escaping the entangle it stands up and walks away

it gave other pilots the 0 dcv they needed to get a head/vitals shot on the walker, maybe even taking a long straight shot as a haymaker to put more energy bolts on target

 

I like the K.I.S.S. way of doing things

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

I seem to recall only one walker falling victim to this tactic -- indicating it takes an incredible degree of piloting skill (perhaps augmented with Force awareness) to pull it off. And it seemed odd that the Rebellion would use its best pilots in a suicidal delaying action (because once all the transports were away the pilots and infantry left behind were pretty much toast -- either dead or captured depending on whether General Veers was in a mood to take prisoners.)

 

Luke must have volunteered to do it and pushed the case very forcibly, because he was an incredibly valuable asset to the Rebellion. At it was he was lost to them for a period of several months as he never bothered to tell his superiors that he was off to Degobah to train his Force powers. As a military machine the Rebellion had serious limitations.

[dmjalund]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

There should be rules for people who get entangled while moving - for falling down.

[Christopher]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

There should be rules for people who get entangled while moving - for falling down.

It the same as for suddenly disabling your movement powers while running at full speed.

[Arc Esu]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

I like Beast's idea of the special effect of the Entangle being that the walker is prone (or is refusing to move an inch, and hence can't "dodge").

 

And the Star Wars nerd in me feels compelled to point out that Luke didn't entangle a walker. It was his idea, but his gunner Dack died before he could make the approach. It was actually Wedge and his gunner Jansen that tripped the walker in the movie.

 

I'll try to make up a build based on the Entangle idea once I get home, and post it here.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

The only wrinkle with the Entangle theory is that I don't think the walkers *can* stand back up after they fall.

 

Which really makes me wonder what the Imperial Corp of Engineers was smoking.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

Which really makes me wonder what the Imperial Corp of Engineers was smoking.

 

The Empire had a fondness for "invincible terror weapons" that they assumed nobody could defeat. Since they essentially tried to rule by terror I imagine this was a natural thing for them. But it tended to do two things: make people in general really hate them (even those who seemingly have little stake in galactic affairs) and make themselves somewhat careless in designing their terror weapons. A New Hope would have ended quite differently had the Imperial engineers paid more attention to their designs.

[Beast]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

In tESB the walker only fell over onto it's side after being blasted by another

if tipping them over made them a mission kill then a nuke blast on their broad sides would have ended the battle fast

 

 

The only wrinkle with the Entangle theory is that I don't think the walkers *can* stand back up after they fall.

 

Which really makes me wonder what the Imperial Corp of Engineers was smoking.

[Christopher]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

The only wrinkle with the Entangle theory is that I don't think the walkers *can* stand back up after they fall.

 

Which really makes me wonder what the Imperial Corp of Engineers was smoking.

You have to ask Veers, it was his design and he was the one leading the attack on hoth in one of them.

 

I guess it is the same as with the white trooper armors (or the Jaffa Armors from Star Gate):

They are there to show presense. Fearfull presence. Not nessesary being effective in combat.

O'Neil is couted to have said about the Staff Weapon "a weapon of terror rather than of war". The imperial Navy and Army isn't a offensive Force. It's main purpose is defense/policing. For that, showing presense is more important than beign effective (wich is why you can usually hardly miss a police officer or police car, for example).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

In tESB the walker only fell over onto it's side after being blasted by another

if tipping them over made them a mission kill then a nuke blast on their broad sides would have ended the battle fast

 

I'm willing to bet the Rebels didn't generally traffic in Weapons of Mass Destruction.

[dmjalund]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

Its what happens when you have decades of constant war.

[Arc Esu]

Re: Harpoon and Tow Cable from The Empire Strikes Back

 

Here's the build I made based on Entangle:

 

Harpoon and Tow Cable: Entangle 8d6, 16 PD/8 ED, Takes No Damage From Attacks All Attacks (+1/2) (150 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2), OAF Bulky (-1 1/2), Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), -1 1/4), Set Effect (Legs Only) (-1), Only on walker-type targets (-1), Does Not Prevent The Use Of Accessible Foci (-1), Limited Arc Of Fire (180 degrees; -1/4), Requires A Roll (Combat Piloting roll, -1 per 20 Active Points modifier; -1/4), Limited Range (200 meters; -1/4) Real cost: 15 points

 

 

This isn't a 100% movie accurate build, because as CrosshairCollie said, once the walker falls down it can't get back up. Also, the fall itself seems to do some damage to the walker. But it seems close enough for game purposes if the GM applies some hand-waving.

 

 

 

I arrived at 16 PD/8d6 because a vehicle the size of an AT-AT would have 65 STR, doing 13 Body on average with an exerted effort to escape. The walker in the movie does seem to struggle against the cable and can't break it, so I figure that 16 PD plus 8 Body should prevent all but the luckiest AT-AT's from escaping. The range comes from the West End Games d6 stats.

 

 

 

The only two things I'm not sure about are the piloting check (at a -7, it seems even Wedge or Luke would have a hard time pulling it off; perhaps handwave it to -4 or -5, or else make it a -0 Limitation and be a straight up check?) and the "Does Not Prevent The Use Of Accessible Foci," which I put in because if the walker doesn't trip, it should still be able to use its blaster cannons (although maybe this is already covered by the "Set Effect," since the cannons are mounted on the "head," not the "legs").

 

 

Any suggestions on this specific build?