Younger PCs; Older Players

[Vondy]

I've noticed a lot of protagonists in fantasy fiction are in their teens. This, when I was a teen, was not such an issue, but even then I tended to play characters between 20 and 40. Perhaps not successfully, but I tried....

 

Now I'm older and the young protagonists are sometimes jarring. Their competence and stories often seem at odds with their age. This could, to some extent, be due to modern mores, but even in the medieval period the age of majority was generally 20.

 

True, we see historical accounts of young noblewomen getting married at 14-16, but that was driven by politics and unique to their station. The average age of a common born girl getting married was often over 20 due to taxes, fees, and general mores.

 

And a squire did not become a knight until much the same age. Nor did noble wards inherit their lands and titles until about that time in life. Sometimes things were different with monarchs and we see young kings, true, but they were monarchs! And they usually had grown ups running things for them.

 

But, Conan emerges on the scene at 19 having been sung of at campfires for his bloody deeds at Venarium at 15. And George RR Martin? Aya is 11, Danerys 13, Sansa 14, John Snow 15, Robb Stark 17. And Robb Stark leads and army and is declared king of the north in that year. True, Alexander the Great conquered the world by the time he was 30, but he only got started at 20.

 

I guess the point of this meandering post is how one simulates such characters without having your game turn into the fantasy version of teen champions, or getting squicky about modern mores, especially where teen love is concerned. Do you just pull an RR Martin and write them like adults (for the most part) and tell grown up tales?

 

Such characters aren't even really adults by medieval standards (the most often simulated fantasy milieu), though more was often put upon them, and they don't have sufficient age for a great deal of sophistication. At the same time, for adults to enjoy the story it will have to have a certain adult sensibility. Not necessarily TV-MA or NC-17, but it has to reach the target demographic.

 

The obvious answer is "just play older characters," but how does one use the trope for adults?

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

I was once in a game where every PC had to be a teenager. I was in my forties and wasn't comfortable playing a High-School character, so the GM let me play an 18-year-old character. It was still kind of awkward.

[RexMundi]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

I've noticed a lot of protagonists in fantasy fiction are in their teens. This, when I was a teen, was not such an issue, but even then I tended to play characters between 20 and 40. Perhaps not successfully, but I tried....

 

Now I'm older and the young protagonists are sometimes jarring. Their competence and stories often seem at odds with their age. This could, to some extent, be due to modern mores, but even in the medieval period the age of majority was generally 20.

 

True, we see historical accounts of young noblewomen getting married at 14-16, but that was driven by politics and unique to their station. The average age of a common born girl getting married was often over 20 due to taxes, fees, and general mores.

 

And a squire did not become a knight until much the same age. Nor did noble wards inherit their lands and titles until about that time in life. Sometimes things were different with monarchs and we see young kings, true, but they were monarchs! And they usually had grown ups running things for them.

 

But, Conan emerges on the scene at 19 having been sung of at campfires for his bloody deeds at Venarium at 15. And George RR Martin? Aya is 11, Danerys 13, Sansa 14, John Snow 15, Robb Stark 17. And Robb Stark leads and army and is declared king of the north in that year. True, Alexander the Great conquered the world by the time he was 30, but he only got started at 20.

 

I guess the point of this meandering post is how one simulates such characters without having your game turn into the fantasy version of teen champions, or getting squicky about modern mores, especially where teen love is concerned. Do you just pull an RR Martin and write them like adults (for the most part) and tell grown up tales?

 

Such characters aren't even really adults by medieval standards (the most often simulated fantasy milieu), though more was often put upon them, and they don't have sufficient age for a great deal of sophistication. At the same time, for adults to enjoy the story it will have to have a certain adult sensibility. Not necessarily TV-MA or NC-17, but it has to reach the target demographic.

 

The obvious answer is "just play older characters," but how does one use the trope for adults?

 

I'd say, play older characters. I've noticed a lot of disconnect, at least from my own point of view with really reaching back to find that "Teen" thought process again to play the PC right, but then like most of the military kids I knew growing up in the beginnings of the latchkey generation, and the lack of all the various kid entertainment out there today, I don't think that inner Teen was ever there in the face of having to be relatively self sufficient fairly early. *shrug* We all tended to play much older characters when I got into the hobby, and tend to make PC's within a 10 year span now.

 

As for the Game of Thrones example, Robb and Jon are born in the same year, 283 AL (or as other sources say, "Of an Age"). One of the popular rumors since the beginning is that Jon isn't the bastard of Eddard at all, but rather that of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen. Only Howland Reed knows the truth. All should be revealed in the forthcoming books, heh. Maybe, Someday....Until then you have the Lady Dayne theory as well, and or the other "I'll tell you about it If and When stuff in the various novels..." ... Either way not important to the topic but very good example to the issue...

 

I have noticed as the Old Age is creeping up on me that I am far more out of my comfort zone with vastly younger PC's, and it does seem to go in ten year increments...

 

~Rex.....besides.....Older is Better.

[Mister E]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

imho, the source of youthful passion is due to immature EGOs and not from having stronger Psychological Complications.

 

If anything, it makes more sense to me that, as a body's feelings grow more intense as it ages (having more experiences to draw from), it likewise grows more emotionally mature in order to compensate. The end result being an adult that is both more empathic & more self aware than its younger self.

 

More balanced.

[Vondy]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

I'd say' date=' play older characters. I've noticed a lot of disconnect, at least from my own point of view with really reaching back to find that "Teen" thought process again to play the PC right, but then like most of the military kids I knew growing up in the beginnings of the latchkey generation, and the lack of all the various kid entertainment out there today, I don't think that inner Teen was ever there in the face of having to be relatively self sufficient fairly early. *shrug* We all tended to play much older characters when I got into the hobby, and tend to make PC's within a 10 year span now.[/quote']

 

I was working at fifteen and on my own at seventeen with no safety net. My childhood was cut short, so I understand having to be self-sufficient young and how that impacts one's ability to relate to "normal kids." At this point even 20 seems terribly young to me and I tend to play 30-50, so I guess my natural age variance is about the same as yours comfort-wise. One issue I have, however, is that as you get older you tend to get married and have families and become more entrenched - you put down roots.

 

The "sexy" single protagonist of our entertainment who is available for romantic entanglements and can go running off at the drop of a hat for whatever adventure prevents itself at the moment isn't very grounded and, when I really sit down and think about there lives, a touch sad, lonely, and depressing. Even Nick and Nora Charles, married as they are, seem a bit vacuous when their attitudes and way of living are considered.

 

As a result, youth has a certain verisimilitude to it in that respect.

 

Also, sometimes I get tired of playing competent veterans. As a rule I prefer veterans, but a change of pace and a little naivite and ignorance can be refreshing and actually makes a writer's - or gamemaster's - job easier in some ways. Such characters will just go for it. Naive and ignorant is our natural state at 15-20. But at 40 its a bit pathetic. At that point you're supposed to have gained some experience and wisdom.

 

I guess, as you get older, you get stuck with that. Playing older characters is probably best.

[Vondy]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

imho' date=' the source of youthful passion is due to immature EGOs and not from having stronger Psychological Complications. [/quote']

 

Makes sense.

[RexMundi]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

To think of it, back in the day we might have had the social limitation: Latchkey Kid. Nowadays the Social Limitation is more like Social Media Addiction. Still though....I CAN at least for a limited time still kick back and enjoy a game of PS238, or a Teen Titans sorta thing, but even then I think I look at it as "These characters are Way Older mentally then what they are chronologically....."

 

I do get tired of playing Veterans sometimes as well. Worse then that, I tend to lately, get a bit tired of being cast as a "leader" at the table during the few times I get to actually play. Especially when all the "youts" as my Cousin Vinne would say, tend to run amok ask questions/scrape up bodies and collateral damage later......

 

~Rex

[Orion]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

Never played a teen character in any genre. As a teen, I wanted to be an adult. Now that I'm theoretically an adult, I can't image playing a teen, to the point finding out there was a teen hero sourcebook was a shock. It literally never occurred to me that anyone would want to play a teen. I don't think I could play a teen effectively in a modern-age campaign for a long period of time.

 

One of my grandmothers married at 14 or 15, and an aunt did at 13 or 14 as I remember. One of my high school classmates married at 16 (and she wasn't even preggers!) and is still married. Marrying at a young age used to be a lot more common than now, as people were expected to grow up and act like a responsible adult a lot sooner back then. What percentage of the population married before 18 I have no idea, but it was accepted in at least some places. And of course, back when it was common to not finish high school, many had full time jobs by the age of 14 or even before.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

The point is to have fun.

Some have fun playing something they know very well.

Others want escapism to the fullest.

 

Age is only one part of that.

There's the PS236 game out there and that's playing as elementary school kids. It's not so shocking.

 

Nor is it shocking to want to play something you're more comfortable with. Nor to play something you find different or unique.

 

Are you trying to talk yourself out of playing something different? You shouldn't have to if you enjoy your standard fare.

[RexMundi]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

Heh, you want, Maturity yet serious Youth. Try an Ender's War game.

 

~Rex

[dmjalund]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

Heh, you want, Maturity yet serious Youth. Try an Ender's War game.

 

~Rex

not to be confused with an Ender's Wargame

[RexMundi]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

Yeah I shoulda used some proper punctuation but what the hey, it's the internet.

 

~Rex

[Badger]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

I seem to prefer 25-30 regardless of genre. So, I can have experience and athletcism yet still be a little on the impulsive side at times. 25-30 seems perfect for that. I never really had fun with below 20 character (even when below 20).

[Vondy]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

 

Are you trying to talk yourself out of playing something different? You shouldn't have to if you enjoy your standard fare.

 

Not really. I think its more of a theoretical simulationist/aesthetic question. Put another way, assume you are in a game simulating fiction that has teen heroes, or playing characters who are younger as a means of avoiding playing a "hardened veteran," but you, yourself are older - is it entirely dissonant or "squicky" for such characters to be put into stories with themes that will keep older players interested?

[RexMundi]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

I'd say....dissonant.

 

~Rex

[Cancer]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

Our group is older ... we're all in our 40's and 50's, except when one or more of our teenage kids joins us ... that this isn't really an issue for us. If it is an issue, it's usually the metagame problem, when you know something (or know how to do something) that your character really cannot know.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

Not really. I think its more of a theoretical simulationist/aesthetic question. Put another way' date=' assume you are in a game simulating fiction that has teen heroes, or playing characters who are younger as a means of avoiding playing a "hardened veteran," but you, yourself are older - is it entirely dissonant or "squicky" for such characters to be put into stories with themes that will keep older players interested?[/quote']

 

You mean a "Should I put my PS234 fifth grade superhero into a dark champions game?" kind of thing?

[Vondy]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

You mean a "Should I put my PS234 fifth grade superhero into a dark champions game?" kind of thing?

 

That's a little more extreme than what I'm thinking!

 

More like, should a 15-17/18 year old hero (hotshot magicians apprentice, squire, young lady, journeyman apprentice, street tough, etc) be in a game where adult themes like sex, drugs, rock-and-roll, political corruptions, and gritty violence may well dominate.

[Markdoc]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

That's a little more extreme than what I'm thinking!

 

More like, should a 15-17/18 year old hero (hotshot magicians apprentice, squire, young lady, journeyman apprentice, street tough, etc) be in a game where adult themes like sex, drugs, rock-and-roll, political corruptions, and gritty violence may well dominate.

 

I don't have a problem with that - but of course, it's going to affect the game you play: any game where a child or young adult is in what we think of as "adult situations" is going to acquire a darker overtone. But I've met a 13 year old combat veteran who was charged with war crimes, so it's hardly stretching the bounds of reality to have such situations in game.

 

There is something about putting a child in that situation that twangs at the nerves a bit, but on the whole I think that's a good thing.

 

cheers, Mark

[Enforcer84]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

That's a little more extreme than what I'm thinking!

 

More like, should a 15-17/18 year old hero (hotshot magicians apprentice, squire, young lady, journeyman apprentice, street tough, etc) be in a game where adult themes like sex, drugs, rock-and-roll, political corruptions, and gritty violence may well dominate.

 

Ah! That makes sense.

Well again that's gonna be something that group will decide. I mean, how old is Piers Anthony? (Bad example but you know what I'm getting at) there are groups that have NO problem with that concept what so ever.

 

And the naive noob is a holdover from our Level 1 fighter days - not to mention TONs of fiction.

 

I think the group should decide before hand where they draw the "line in the sqwick" so to speak. I'm not terribly upset at the idea of an 18 year old or even a little younger...depending on the game of course, especially if naivety is part of the concept. Or...we could have him be amish...

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

That's a little more extreme than what I'm thinking!

 

More like, should a 15-17/18 year old hero (hotshot magicians apprentice, squire, young lady, journeyman apprentice, street tough, etc) be in a game where adult themes like sex, drugs, rock-and-roll, political corruptions, and gritty violence may well dominate.

 

This is one of those 'depends on the makeup of your game group and what they want to do' kind of questions, I think. I wouldn't, but I don't do games with sex, drugs, and gritty violence in the first place ... rock and roll and corrupt politicans do happen, though.

[Badger]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

This is one of those 'depends on the makeup of your game group and what they want to do' kind of questions' date=' I think. I wouldn't, but I don't do games with sex, drugs, and gritty violence in the first place ... rock and roll and corrupt politicans do happen, though.[/quote']

 

Yeah, most of that in any game I am is behind the scenes. Except for the violence, but that falls with battling, and the gratuitous of it widely varies.

[Lucius]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

That's a little more extreme than what I'm thinking!

 

More like, should a 15-17/18 year old hero (hotshot magicians apprentice, squire, young lady, journeyman apprentice, street tough, etc) be in a game where adult themes like sex, drugs, rock-and-roll, political corruptions, and gritty violence may well dominate.

 

I personally have no problem with that, IF the rest of the group has no problem with it. Heck, I've played a fifteen year old character who had an encounter with a succubus - although that didn't actually turn sexual (it DID involve a kiss, which ironically enough aged the character by a couple years, and then we decided to place his birthday right about then and make him 18 from then on.)

 

But this thread has gotten me thinking, and looking back I see I've made a few characters that I deliberately made old veterans both to justify extensive skills and give room for very deep interesting backgrounds. One was for Justice Inc (now Pulp Hero) who was a veteran of the Franco Prussian War, and one was for Champions and veteran of Vietnam.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Sex, drugs, and rock and roll! cries the palindromedary at one end, as the other exclaims Wine, women, and song!

[Orion]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

More like' date=' should a 15-17/18 year old hero (hotshot magicians apprentice, squire, young lady, journeyman apprentice, street tough, etc) be in a game where adult themes like sex, drugs, rock-and-roll, political corruptions, and gritty violence may well dominate.[/quote']

 

I think in the long run I'd have much more trouble with a young player than a young character. I generally design characters in the 25-40 age range, and I make up scenarios that assume the players are of that age, education, and maturity level. One of my superheroes spends much time fighting drug lords in Miami. I can easily see adding a young street gang member to that storyline, and the kid could be either hating the life and trying to get out, or a hardened criminal fighting for his own reasons. So while I could handle a 15-year-old gang member shooting up another gang, I couldn't handle a 15-year-old player wanting to be in that campaign, regardless of age of the character played.

[Tomonari]

Re: Younger PCs; Older Players

 

The general character I use is only 15, BUT, I do it sensibly in the sense that: he's not a veteran of anything, has no real life experience, and is generally, well, experience-less. I think that's part of this issue with the younger characters, is that some tend to not give any real, sensible issues with his or her character(s). Believe me- I try to, for the lack of better description, nerf my character to fit the setting so that he isn't some teen with veteran status and what not. Granted, I do tend to make him mentally smart, just not to the point of genius level IQ.

 

Anyways, my opinion on the this is whether or not the person who made the character actually made his or her character believable. I do have characters in line that are far over age 20 for use, although they do tend to stick in the background... and that's my fault really. o_o