60s characters

[badger3k]

Just picked up a bunch of the "Essential" line of books from Marvel. It's a trip looking back at the characters from the 60s. From Iron Man in his sheet metal (then chainmail) armor, with transistorized grenades, to the Fantastic Four with the radar that can "detect human flesh covered in steel", they sure used some odd devices. It's interesting to see how the characters changed, especially in terms of power.

 

For example, Thor originally could manipulate energy (magnetic) with his hammer, Sub Mariner could store and manipulate electricity, Iron Man had transistorized magnets that could pull metal objects (even so much that they exploded). He made an image projector that could send his image (or someone else) anywhere in the world and the image would see what was around his location (and speak/hear as well). Then these powers disappeared or fell out of use.

 

As a side note - how did Stark live? The shrapnell in his heart apparently would kill him unless his chest plate kept it beating. So the shrapnell had to have severed a nerve or something? If it put holes, his pacemaker would do nothing but more damage. Granted this was before pacemakers were developed, so its prett amazing for its time. However, he had a tranzistorized power source that could be depleted, but then would recharge. Yet he had to plug in his chestplate to keep his heart beating. Why not use the self-recharging ones for his heart?

 

Its also interesting to see how attitudes changed (especially with the women - the invisible girl and the wasp for example). Reed Richards saying that Sue was basically a cheerleader (in FF #12)! Eye opening to see how the times (and characters) have changed.

 

Looking at the books made me wonder if anybody plays in that type of campaign - I know some people do (or at least have run some games like that). Do people use a lot of that genre or its conventions (add radar to anything and you have a super weapon "my radar-death-ray") or do people play in a more modern style, with science more in line with todays world?

 

Also, has anyone done anything like the early comics - where characters powers could often change wildly, with powers getting limited but more powerful as time went on (i.e. a lot of "radiation accidents" so to speak)?

 

Anyone have any comments on the style, or the comics themselves? I remember reading many of these as a kid. Or what about the cartoons? The old FF cartoon that actually followed the comics pretty well? If they could do it then, why can't they do it now?

[Blue]

Real Science is the enemy of a really good superhero story. From the red sun v. yellow sun effects on kryptonian physiognomy to the super-power inducing effects of cosmic rays (which strangely has not been simulated by any group since the FF).

 

I think that as different writers take over characters they add their own knowledge to the equation, and that slowly evolves the character to something more "realistic". Not always a good thing. But many of the changes you mention above would seem to be prudent choices as far as I can tell.

 

Problem is, you can't unlearn science. It's harder to make a character with a good and viable origin these days because we know what radiation really does. Regardless, if anyone comes across a radioactive spider--let me know. I'd like to give that origin a try

[Argus]

Originally posted by Blue

Real Science is the enemy of a really good superhero story. From the red sun v. yellow sun effects on kryptonian physiognomy to the super-power inducing effects of cosmic rays (which strangely has not been simulated by any group since the FF).

 

Not Ture the U-Foes duplicated the same origin.

 

Argus.

[winterhawk]

Originally posted by Argus

Not Ture the U-Foes duplicated the same origin.

 

Argus.

 

So did the Red Ghost and his Super Apes.

[Theron]

Originally posted by Blue

Real Science is the enemy of a really good superhero story. From the red sun v. yellow sun effects on kryptonian physiognomy

 

[Engaging Pedantic Nitpicker Mode]

 

Physiognomy means, "face". It's also the name of the Victorian "science" of assigning personality traits to bumps on the head. Somewhere in the 70s, some funny-book writer decided it sounded cooler than the proper word, "physiology", and it's been wedged in the mind of comics fans ever since.

 

[Pedantic Nitpicker Mode Off]

[Sketchpad]

Originally posted by winterhawk

So did the Red Ghost and his Super Apes.

 

Not to mention Hank Henshaw and some friends in Superman. Of course, instead of making the FF, all but Henshaw died and made Hank into the "Cyborg Superman"

[Lightray]

Originally posted by Theron

[Engaging Pedantic Nitpicker Mode]

 

Physiognomy means, "face". It's also the name of the Victorian "science" of assigning personality traits to bumps on the head. Somewhere in the 70s, some funny-book writer decided it sounded cooler than the proper word, "physiology", and it's been wedged in the mind of comics fans ever since.

 

[Pedantic Nitpicker Mode Off]

Super Pedantic Powers, Activate!

 

That's phrenology wot's about the bumps on the noggin, old chap.

[Theron]

You're right. I plead "Weekend With a 4 Year Old Constantly Underfoot" and throw myself on the mercy of the court.

 

FWIW, according to http://www.dictionary.com

 

phys·i·og·no·my ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fz-gn-m, -n-m)

n. pl. phys·i·og·no·mies

 

The art of judging human character from facial features.

Divination based on facial features.

 

Facial features, especially when regarded as revealing character.

 

Aspect and character of an inanimate or abstract entity: the physiognomy of New England.

[Redmenace]

Sorry to jump on the band wagon but several marvel characters have semi succesfully tried to recreate the atomic accident that unleashed the Hulk as well.

 

Emil Blonsky, Commie spy, became the Abomination

 

Walter Langowskie, atomic physiscist, became Sasquatch of Alpha Flight, (kind of anyway)

 

Leonard Samson, psychiatrist, became Doc Sampson

 

There have been several others as well

 

Sorry, got it out of my system.

 

As to doing a campaign about the era or more likely in that style, Silver Age Sentinels is all about it and the core rules go into the whole silver age feel extensively.

 

As to the weird science- there is an early issue of THOR where Loki turns several people of New York into anti matter. They continue to walk around the city eliciting strange looks but little else. Thor reasons that by swinging his enchanted mallet counter clockwise it will emit negative magnetic rays that will reverse the polarity of the anti matter, and it does.

 

Stan was battin' a thousand that day

[Kevin Scrivner]

Sixties Characters?

 

Hmmm.

 

Angel and the Ape -- sexy blonde and intelligent talking gorilla form detective agency. They fight crime!

 

Jerry Lewis -- He and his ornery nephew Refnew had all sorts of unlikely adventures. I triple-dog-dare any DC supervillain to go up against them!

 

Captain Marvel -- Not the world's mightiest mortal or the Kree warrior but the guy who could disassemble his body parts by yelling, "Split!"

 

The Brave and the Bold/Marvel Team-up -- Throw any two heroes together, no matter how mismatched, and pit them against an equally unlikely villain.

 

Cain, Able, The House of Mystery, The House of Secrets, Werewolf By Night, Eerie -- Things are going bump in the night. NPCs are turning up dead in grisly ways or aren't turning up at all. What can the heroes do about it?

 

King-sized Conan and Hulk -- Big, bold adventures in black-and-white. Will the heroes outwit the sinister Ra Mihn Nudal, or will they end up facing Cthulhu's sister-in-law?

 

Just a few random memories of 1960s comicdom.

[badger3k]

Considering how far science has come in just the few years since comics began, a lot of what they used was amazing - some of it very funny, to some very accurate. Don't forget the 60s - 70s had a lot of war/cowboy comics too (Sgt Rock, Sgt Fury and his Howling Commandos, Black Hawk, the Rawhide Kid, etc). Those and the post-apocalypse ones - Kamandi and OMAC bring back fond memories too. Can't remember when they came out, but it was during the Kirby-era, IIRC. That might make an interesting campaign, I still think I have a giant size Kamandi (the one with the gorilla commandos), with a map of the world. Have to dig up my old issues on that.

 

Those and what I consider some of the better Batman (Brave and the Bold, Detective Comics). Really gave the DarkKnight Detective meaning to his name, IMO.

 

Don't remember the Captain Marvel who split up, though (or Jerry Lewis!). Maybe Jerry can team-up with Kiss, the Insane Clown Posse, and all those Wrestlers. A Mega-Deluxe Giant Size Annual One-Shot!

 

That gave me some weird thoughts. What if characters such as Richie Rich, Hot Stuff, and Casper "grew up" (so to speak) into superheroes! Oook - the mind boggles!

[starblaze]

Originally posted by Blue

Real Science is the enemy of a really good superhero story. From the red sun v. yellow sun effects on kryptonian physiognomy to the super-power inducing effects of cosmic rays (which strangely has not been simulated by any group since the FF).

 

I think that as different writers take over characters they add their own knowledge to the equation, and that slowly evolves the character to something more "realistic". Not always a good thing. But many of the changes you mention above would seem to be prudent choices as far as I can tell.

 

Problem is, you can't unlearn science. It's harder to make a character with a good and viable origin these days because we know what radiation really does. Regardless, if anyone comes across a radioactive spider--let me know. I'd like to give that origin a try

 

Wrong about the cosmic rays, a supervillian team called the U-Foes got their powers the same way.

[Theron]

Originally posted by badger3k

Considering how far science has come in just the few years since comics began, a lot of what they used was amazing - some of it very funny, to some very accurate. Don't forget the 60s - 70s had a lot of war/cowboy comics too (Sgt Rock, Sgt Fury and his Howling Commandos, Black Hawk, the Rawhide Kid, etc).

 

And let us not forget my poster child for bad Silver Age comics. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you: the one, the only,

 

TOD HOLTON, SUPER GREEN BERET!

 

(Warning: Very high cheese content. Readers with a history of cholesterol problems should not follow that above link.)

[J4y]

Real Science is the enemy of a really good superhero story.

 

I think you mean poor writing. Redmenace's example of anti-matter people is good. I guess spending 10 minutes to research something was too much. If you can't even put that much effort into explaining something, then don't explain it at all, a half-decent writer knows when to shut up and leave something up to the reader's imagination.

[Blue Jogger]

In the Golden/Silver Age Campaign that I'm currently in, I threaten

to create a female superhero loosely based on the early Wonder

Woman.

 

She would lose her powers if tied or bound.

She would have +2 on Seduction and +5 COM if tied or bound.

If she was in real trouble, she could call her "close amazonian

sisters" to come and rescue her.

 

And, of course, it went quickly downhill from there. But it was all

based on the subtext of the early Wonder Woman.

------

Instead, I've been playing a Green Lantern with a mixture of the

early and later verisons. His ring is magical, but he got from a

dying alien. It doesn't work on wood (because yellow was deemed

too silly). He tends to create large hands and green rocketships,

but also makes black-and-green images (it looked like this) and

the ring is aware and argues with him.

[Brandi]

Originally posted by J4y

I guess spending 10 minutes to research something was too much.

 

Do keep in mind that this was still the era when people thought a duck and cover drill was a viable preparation for nuclear war...

[Dr. Anomaly]

Originally posted by badger3k

Those and the post-apocalypse ones - Kamandi and OMAC bring back fond memories too.

Anyone remember the Atomic Knights? DC later retconned that post-apocalypse storyline into a VR simulation the government was running in the mind of a volunteer soldier kept in a sense-dep tank, but he subconsciously took over the simulation and turned it into a semi-Thundarr-the-Barbarian post-apocalypse fantasy world.

[badger3k]

Originally posted by Dr. Anomaly

Anyone remember the Atomic Knights? DC later retconned that post-apocalypse storyline into a VR simulation the government was running in the mind of a volunteer soldier kept in a sense-dep tank, but he subconsciously took over the simulation and turned it into a semi-Thundarr-the-Barbarian post-apocalypse fantasy world.

 

Let's hear it for knights in radiation-proof armor! Wasn't Gardner Fox the name of the lead (seems to fit)? Later they put him in a powered armor suit and gave him psychic powers. Liked the older stuff better.

[Theron]

Gardner Grayle was the leader of the Atomic Knights. He was doubtlessly named after Gardner Fox, a writer responsible for many of DC's Silver Age stories.

[badger3k]

Originally posted by Theron

Gardner Grayle was the leader of the Atomic Knights. He was doubtlessly named after Gardner Fox, a writer responsible for many of DC's Silver Age stories.

 

Thanks - saves me digging up some old issues.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Originally posted by Theron

Gardner Grayle was the leader of the Atomic Knights. He was doubtlessly named after Gardner Fox, a writer responsible for many of DC's Silver Age stories.

Yup, Garnder Grayle was the guy the (in the retcon) project leader called "the statistically average soldier, not outstanding in any way." That's something *I'd* want to hear myself called...not.

[zornwil]

I think pseudo-science in our game, even if in keeping with our times, isn't that different from those old days of the 60s where things sounded a bit more "pseudo".

 

The only other thing I think is similar to those old days is that I do allow a "radiation accident" systemtically upon reaching a certain "Reputation Level". Also, I allow players to mutate their characters more than probably some games.

[Doug McCrae]

I think women were stronger, mentally and physically, in the Golden Age than the Silver.

 

Silver Age heroines almost always had feminine powers like shrinking, invisibility, intangibility, telepathy and the like. Strength, toughness, energy blasts were for men only. Supergirl is the only exception I can think of.

 

It's particularly noticeable in the Legion of Super Heroes. The only girl with a destructive power, Lightning Lass, was changed into Light Lass with the power to make objects light weight - how crap is that?

[Crimson Arrow]

Originally posted by Blue Jogger

In the Golden/Silver Age Campaign that I'm currently in, I threaten

to create a female superhero loosely based on the early Wonder

Woman.

 

She would lose her powers if tied or bound.

She would have +2 on Seduction and +5 COM if tied or bound.

If she was in real trouble, she could call her "close amazonian

sisters" to come and rescue her.

 

And, of course, it went quickly downhill from there. But it was all

based on the subtext of the early Wonder Woman.

 

Have you read the Marshal Law story where he fights the reanimated Golden Age heroes, who bear a striking similarity to certain DC characters? One of them is basically the Golden Age Wonder Woman and well, let's say that while she claims to find the idea of being tied up by a man and losing her powers shameful, she seems not to be very bothered.

[Mutant for Hire]

Originally posted by Doug McCrae

I think women were stronger, mentally and physically, in the Golden Age than the Silver.

 

Silver Age heroines almost always had feminine powers like shrinking, invisibility, intangibility, telepathy and the like. Strength, toughness, energy blasts were for men only. Supergirl is the only exception I can think of.

 

It's particularly noticeable in the Legion of Super Heroes. The only girl with a destructive power, Lightning Lass, was changed into Light Lass with the power to make objects light weight - how crap is that?

Don't forget the women of the Silver Age tended to wear much more modest costumes than some of the Golden Age characters as well.

 

As for why, bear in mind that the Silver Age was the post-Seduction, Comics Code era when the comics were aiming for respectability and family values. Things were a lot more brutal in the Golden Age than they were in the Silver Age.

 

It always makes me wonder how the superhero genre would have been different if the Comics Code hadn't been rammed through, and for that matter a lot of the comics genres that existed previously hadn't been suppressed.