Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

[Orion]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

The thing is' date=' since I'm a gay guy myself, I always look for LGB characters in anything I read or watch -- I can't help it. [/quote']

 

White male hetero, myself. While I understand why you look for LGB characters, I find that I prefer that the character's sexuality not be mentioned at all. Unless it is a key fact about the character, I think it just shouldn't matter. As a GM, I can decide what they are when it is needed for the plot. Romance and sexuality have very little importance in my campaign, so mention of it in a character writeup, regardless of the type chosen, feels intrusive to me. I find that race has even less importance than sexuality, and is even easier to ignore or change.

[Christopher]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

It has been pointed out that' date=' for a team set in the reconstruction of Detroit, the Champions are an awfully white team...[/quote']

Ironcald - Grey

Kinetik - Black

Starfire - Mutant

If at all I would say they are a "only american" team, but that is how there are supposed to be.

 

We have a huge variety of character backgrounds (e.g.' date=' countries of origin, religions, ethnicities) represented, but virtually no LGB characters at all. Meanwhile, in Marvel and DC comics, there are many such characters, and I can easily find many other LGB characters in other roleplaying systems' source material. So I am a little frustrated with Hero Games's lack of inclusion. In my mind it would be like having no superheroes of color, or just a dozen or so scattered throughout other supplement books. I'd say if you are creating superhero writeups, about 1 in 12 of them should be lesbian or gay -- otherwise it's just not "realistic." Doesn't even have to be that many, really.[/quote']

The difference between ethnicity, background and religion on the one side and being LGB or hetero: The former is mroe or less obvious/becomes easier obvious.

You can see/deduce ethnicity and background from sight or hearing (of a voice) and you are fare more likely to know that someone is moslem (and thus can't eat pork) the same way you would know somebody is vegetarian. And it plays are greater role in his super ID (wich is the part that interests us the most in any character).

 

And is was pointed out often enough: You can just define Talisman, Dr. Destroyer, Gravitar or Teleios with whatever sexuality you like/think would fit. It's not like being gay, hetero, bi or something else would effect mayorly what they do.

Of course that raises one questions: Is your problem that there are no supeheroes that are partially denfined/based on being LGB? Kinetik is a Black Role Model, German Supers are always "Ambassadors for a not Nazi Germany", Moslemic Supers would show that Moslems can be tollerant (unlike the popular believe). But there is no LGB Role Model out there.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Romance and sexuality have very little importance in my campaign' date=' so mention of it in a character writeup, regardless of the type chosen, feels intrusive to me.[/quote']

 

So do you just ignore all the DNPC wives/girlfriends in the official writeups?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Ironcald - Grey

Kinetik - Black

Starfire - Mutant

If at all I would say they are a "only american" team, but that is how there are supposed to be.

 

Hey now... Starfire is an alien over in DC... Sapphire, by contrast, isn't just a mutant, she's also Latina. So she's actually one of the minority characters...

[Christopher]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

So do you just ignore all the DNPC wives/girlfriends in the official writeups?

No, I think he juts not plays out the after-rescue sex.

 

Hey now... Starfire is an alien over in DC... Sapphire' date=' by contrast, isn't just a mutant, she's also Latina. So she's actually one of the minority characters...[/quote']

Yes, meant Sapphire.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

I think of it more along the lines of 'We've confirmed the sexual orientation of these particular characters. Everybody else? Whatever you want to do'.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

I look at superheroes and sexuality it this way: Wilt Chamberlain is famous for two things. One of those things is being one of the greatest basketball players of all time. The other is his claim to have slept with 12,000 women. Gene Simmons? Member of Kiss. Slept with 3,000 women. A good looking, popular and charismatic superhero who has even a slight interest in carousing will find plenty of willing partners, straight, gay, bi, trans, or dragonnewt. Heck, if they're popular and charismatic, they don't even have to be good looking. If carousing/promiscuity is part of a PC or NPC's lifestyle, it should at least rate a mention or reference in-game. Super-groupies would, I expect, be a real phenomenon.

[Mister E]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

A good looking' date=' popular and charismatic superhero who has even a slight interest in carousing will find plenty of willing partners, straight, gay, bi, trans, or dragonnewt. Heck, if they're popular and charismatic, they don't even have to be good looking. If carousing/promiscuity is part of a PC or NPC's lifestyle, it should at least rate a mention or reference in-game. Super-groupies would, I expect, be a real phenomenon.[/quote']

 

Would you call such a character a 'megaplayboy'?

[Christopher]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

If carousing/promiscuity is part of a PC or NPC's lifestyle' date=' it should at least rate a mention or reference in-game. Super-groupies would, I expect, be a real phenomenon.[/quote']

That is what complications like:

DNCP (Girlfriend of the week)

and

Womanizer

are there for.

 

This asumes it play a myor role in the character concept that he has "a new girl every week". Like I said, what he does in his Private ID is not as interesting as what he does in his heroic ID and if being gay plays no mayor part in it, there is no reason to mention it.

I mean there is nothing in the writeup of Kinetik or Ironclad that says they are not gay (and uninterested in interspecies dating).

[megaplayboy]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Would you call such a character a 'megaplayboy'?

 

:shrugs:

[Steve]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Would inter-species relationships be an example of alternate sexuality? For example, a Human who only goes for Elf women, or an Andorian man who prefers Klingon women?

[Bloodstone]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Would inter-species relationships be an example of alternate sexuality? For example' date=' a Human who only goes for Elf women, or an Andorian man who prefers Klingon women?[/quote']

 

Technically yes, but if the other species is sufficiently near human, I doubt many people will think much of it.

 

Assuming you are playing Joe Average white dude hero, having a thing for female elves is probably about on par with having a thing for Asian women in most settings.

 

By contrast, having a thing for female orcs or dwarves is probably considered noteworthy...

[Jhaierr]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Well, "realistic" numbers would probably be more like 3-4% wouldn't it?

 

Or are my demographics wrong here?

 

Not technically, but I'm basing 1/12 on a conservative estimate of LGB population in large cities, since that's where most superhero stories take place: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation#United_States_2

[Jhaierr]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

And is was pointed out often enough: You can just define Talisman, Dr. Destroyer, Gravitar or Teleios with whatever sexuality you like/think would fit. It's not like being gay, hetero, bi or something else would effect mayorly what they do.

Of course that raises one questions: Is your problem that there are no supeheroes that are partially denfined/based on being LGB? Kinetik is a Black Role Model, German Supers are always "Ambassadors for a not Nazi Germany", Moslemic Supers would show that Moslems can be tollerant (unlike the popular believe). But there is no LGB Role Model out there.

 

Believe me, I'm well aware of my ability to change the sexualities of characters if I wish.

 

And no, my problem isn't that I want characters based around their sexuality (although when you are a minority, your identity as that minority usually becomes more salient, so it makes sense that a gay superhero might become a spokesman for LGBT rights, etc.). It's just that there is so little canonical representation at all.

[Jhaierr]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

The difference between ethnicity, background and religion on the one side and being LGB or hetero: The former is mroe or less obvious/becomes easier obvious.

You can see/deduce ethnicity and background from sight or hearing (of a voice) and you are fare more likely to know that someone is moslem (and thus can't eat pork) the same way you would know somebody is vegetarian. And it plays are greater role in his super ID (wich is the part that interests us the most in any character).

 

I don't see how someone's vegetarianism or religion would be any more obvious than someone's sexual orientation. I'd say that, as the very least, they are equally as obvious. It doesn't take very long to figure out if someone is heterosexual in the course of normal conversation (we invariably talk about past relationships or dating life, even if briefly). Orientation can play just as strong of a role in a super ID as either of those two. It would be in different ways, of course, but yeah.

[Jhaierr]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

This asumes it play a myor role in the character concept that he has "a new girl every week". Like I said, what he does in his Private ID is not as interesting as what he does in his heroic ID and if being gay plays no mayor part in it, there is no reason to mention it.

I mean there is nothing in the writeup of Kinetik or Ironclad that says they are not gay (and uninterested in interspecies dating).

 

I guess I look at it like this: there are tons of writeups that include mention of previous/current relationships, if a male character was lucky/unlucky with women, who a female character is interested in on her super-team, etc. It's just part of who they are and their background, but it doesn't have a lot to do with their super ID. I'm not talking about doing anything more than that, honestly.

[Christopher]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Would inter-species relationships be an example of alternate sexuality? For example' date=' a Human who only goes for Elf women, or an Andorian man who prefers Klingon women?[/quote']

Certainly a chase like is the Androids/Human thing and (in a way) "Beauty and the Beast" or "Shrek". How the world reacts is a different matter and depends largely on the prevelance of such things and the tolerance.

 

Personally I do not think those "only X" things happen in reality (but we tend to asume it should be X or not X, so we may behave in a way we do not really want).

Technically there is only hetero or homosexuality, with bi being "for some relationships heterosexual, for some homosexual".

The same way Asexuality/Aromanticality can vary from partner to partner. With some you do both, with others only one part and with a lot neither (this is also called friendship).

Heck, you could even be hetero-sexual and homo-romantical at the sime time (or varry with each partner and maybe even vary sexuality and romanticality during the pases of a single relationship).

 

I guess I look at it like this: there are tons of writeups that include mention of previous/current relationships' date=' if a male character was lucky/unlucky with women, who a female character is interested in on her super-team, etc. It's just part of who they are and their background, but it doesn't have a lot to do with their super ID. I'm not talking about doing anything more than that, honestly.[/quote']

You don't want supers to be defined by their sexuality, but you think it should be more often noted/defined. Frankly I can not see how the two words "is gay" make that much difference then. I think that decision is deliberately left to the GM implementing them, to not overcomplicate matters if he has a certain preference.

[Tasha]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Not technically' date=' but I'm basing 1/12 on a conservative estimate of LGB population in large cities, since that's where most superhero stories take place: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation#United_States_2[/quote']

 

Keep in mind that the GLBT population is understated in all cases. Due to the "Closet Factor" which are the percentage of GLBT people who don't ID as such on Official census reports. This is due to the huge stigma that being GLBT has in most places in the world.

[Jhaierr]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

You don't want supers to be defined by their sexuality' date=' but you think it should be more often noted/defined. Frankly I can not see how the two words "is gay" make that much difference then. I think that decision is deliberately left to the GM implementing them, to not overcomplicate matters if he has a certain preference.[/quote']

 

I've tried to explain my POV, but I don't think you understand what I mean. Let me rephrase.

 

Having a background that shows a character is LGB is no less appropriate than having a background that shows a character is hetero. So what would be the big deal with having some more superhero characters that are shown to be LGB canonically? There will also be those characters that are unspecified/unknown. That's fine; I don't think anyone expects a checkbox for sexuality or anything. But if there are many, many character writeups that reveal that the character is hetero by describing pieces of their background that make it fairly clear, I don't see why there can't be some more characters that are shown to be LGB by describing pieces of their background that make it fairly clear.

[Christopher]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

So what would be the big deal with having some more superhero characters that are shown to be LGB canonically?

That is only a problem if you asume that everybody not stating something specifically, is automatically hetero-romantical and hetero-sexual.

 

I think every super not staing any preference specifically is a likely to have homo-sexual relationship/marriage and a hetero-sexual affair as Joe or Joan Average.

[Jhaierr]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

So what would be the big deal with having some more superhero characters that are shown to be LGB canonically?

That is only a problem if you asume that everybody not stating something specifically, is automatically hetero-romantical and hetero-sexual.

 

I think every super not staing any preference specifically is a likely to have homo-sexual relationship/marriage and a hetero-sexual affair as Joe or Joan Average.

 

No, wait... look at my question there: "What would be the big deal with having some more superhero characters that are shown to be LGB canonically?" I'm not talking about interpreting the unspecified characters; I'm asking that question specifically.

[Christopher]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

No' date=' wait... look at my question there: "What would be the big deal with having some more superhero characters that are [i']shown[/i] to be LGB canonically?" I'm not talking about interpreting the unspecified characters; I'm asking that question specifically.

Who says being not explicitly noted as being homosexual means they aren't?

 

I just asume that everyone not noted differently is by default a form of LGB. For the guys just in champions 6E this means:

Defender - anything from LGB with hetero-aspects

Ironclad- LGB

Kinetik - LGB

Saphire - see Defender

Witchcraft - see Defender

 

Socrates - well, I don't even no what alternate sexualites a computer can have.

 

Armadillo - LGB

Green Dragon - most likely hetero, from his ancient views

Ogre - LGB

Pulsar - either hetero, or LGB and likes to see only women on silver platers

Tachyon - LGB

Talisman - LGB

 

And what do we have now? Not ONE defined as clearly heterosexual. I think supers being declared as cleary heterosexual are underrepresented canonically.

[Jhaierr]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Who says being not explicitly noted as being homosexual means they aren't?

 

I am not saying that. I am asking, again, what would be the big deal with having some more superhero characters that are shown to be LGB canonically?

[Christopher]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

I am not saying that. I am asking' date=' again, what would be the big deal with having some more superhero characters that are [i']shown[/i] to be LGB canonically?

And I just prooved that practically none is beign show as being canonically hetero-only. If fact I doubt you find more supers with "cleary heterosexual" in the writeup than ones with "homosexual" in the writeup.

[Jhaierr]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

And I just prooved that practically none is beign show as being canonically hetero-only. If fact I doubt you find more supers with "cleary heterosexual" in the writeup than ones with "homosexual" in the writeup.

 

Let me be more specific then, because this question is really more of what I am asking: What would be the big deal with having some more superhero characters that are shown canonically to have same-sex romantic relationships either currently or in the past?