Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Well..with regards to the villain books....most of the characters therein are so sociopathic that their sexuality is the least of their concerns. Also, they're hardly the best role models. Seriously, does ANYONE look at Black Harlequinn and go..."Glad he's one of ours ? that said..a number of villains at least have the potential to be gay/lesbian...

 

Dark Seraph(and possibly Phoenix) are described as reasonably hedonistic..and likely to play both sides of the fence.

Lynx(of Brain Trust)...with her obsession with "catgirls" may potentially be lesbian.

Of The Ultimates...only Slick is mentioned as a womanizer(and I don't use him in the group anyways...he sucks) The rest of the group has some potential for alternate sexualities(though new to 6th ed...Binder is mentioned as having a crush on Lady Blue) Blackstar, Cyclone, and Thunderbolt all have personalities that suggest they could be "compensating" for something.

 

These are just examples...in the end...I think each GM should decide this issue for themselves, but it'd be very easy to see a number of published chracters as gay.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Comic book characters have romantic subplots fairly frequently' date=' actually. Sometimes it even propels a plotline(Daredevil/Elektra). If you're doing any degree of "genre simulation" in your campaign setting, well, that's part of the genre.[/quote']

 

I doubt there are many games of any genre that use every last little bit and trope from the source material. There's always going to be some element that the GM or the players don't like and simply sweep under the rug.

[Greywind]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Lynx(of Brain Trust)...with her obsession with "catgirls" may potentially be lesbian.

Nah. I know a few girls like that. They just haven't completely grown up mentally yet.

[Alverant]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

The target audience for superhero RPG tends to be hetro white males so a company would do well to pander ... I mean cater to that demographic. For better or worse, things like sexuality, religion, political affiliation, etc aren't mentioned in the character descriptions unless they are key parts to the character. And while it does tend to suck not knowing for sure if the heroes and villains in the book match (or in the villain case oppose) your own choices, in some ways it really doesn't matter. Plus by not mentioning it, you avoid some backlash from the customers and public. If Steve Long came out and said, "Defender is bisexual with a fetish for being Entangled." would people be more or less likely to buy Hero products? (Sorry Mr.Long, not trying to put words in your mouth, just offering a hypothetical.) In a business, sometimes you have to make these decisions.

 

But I still wouldn't mind seeing more diversity in heroes/heroines. Being good should not be linked to being a particular race, gender, religion, political affiliation, whatever.

[Alverant]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Well..with regards to the villain books....most of the characters therein are so sociopathic that their sexuality is the least of their concerns. Also, they're hardly the best role models. Seriously, does ANYONE look at Black Harlequinn and go..."Glad he's one of ours ? that said..a number of villains at least have the potential to be gay/lesbian...

 

Dark Seraph(and possibly Phoenix) are described as reasonably hedonistic..and likely to play both sides of the fence.

Lynx(of Brain Trust)...with her obsession with "catgirls" may potentially be lesbian.

Of The Ultimates...only Slick is mentioned as a womanizer(and I don't use him in the group anyways...he sucks) The rest of the group has some potential for alternate sexualities(though new to 6th ed...Binder is mentioned as having a crush on Lady Blue) Blackstar, Cyclone, and Thunderbolt all have personalities that suggest they could be "compensating" for something.

 

These are just examples...in the end...I think each GM should decide this issue for themselves, but it'd be very easy to see a number of published chracters as gay.

We should also consider non-sexuals. People who are apathetic about sex. They may have a preference and don't mind looking but realize that due to their powers or some other reason don't have much motivation to perform the physical act. Take Blackstar and Thunderbolt for example. What would happen to their partners if their powers suddenly activated wildly when they ummm peaked? Condoms can only protect against so much.

[Jhaierr]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

The target audience for superhero RPG tends to be hetro white males so a company would do well to pander ... I mean cater to that demographic.

 

Has the inclusion of heroes of color caused fewer White people to buy the books? Should we worry about that potential consequence?

 

For better or worse, things like sexuality, religion, political affiliation, etc aren't mentioned in the character descriptions unless they are key parts to the character.

 

Yes and no. Sometimes it's mentioned, sometimes it's not. I don't think that's a rule.

 

And while it does tend to suck not knowing for sure if the heroes and villains in the book match (or in the villain case oppose) your own choices, in some ways it really doesn't matter. Plus by not mentioning it, you avoid some backlash from the customers and public.

 

In some ways it doesn't really matter, but in some ways it does.

 

I doubt there would be as much "backlash" as people seem to imagine. I'd even say there would be at least a tad more "brand loyalty" with LGB gamers if you publish books with canonical LGB characters.

 

If Steve Long came out and said, "Defender is bisexual with a fetish for being Entangled." would people be more or less likely to buy Hero products? (Sorry Mr.Long, not trying to put words in your mouth, just offering a hypothetical.) In a business, sometimes you have to make these decisions.

 

That's an extremely silly hypothetical that wouldn't happen. Just because someone is LGB doesn't mean it's time to talk about kinky sexual fetishes or whatever. Don't oversexualize. And I'm not even asking that sexuality be stated so directly as that (although it might be in some particular backgrounds).

[Alverant]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Has the inclusion of heroes of color caused fewer White people to buy the books? Should we worry about that potential consequence?

Let's consider comics. How many comic books by the big two (Marvel and DC) had titles feature a hero or heroine of color that has lasted more than 50 issues? How many featuring white hero or heroines?

I doubt there would be as much "backlash" as people seem to imagine. I'd even say there would be at least a tad more "brand loyalty" with LGB gamers if you publish books with canonical LGB characters.

What about the new bi-racial Spider-man? That itself seemed to have caused quite a stir among comic book fans and not all of it good.

That's an extremely silly hypothetical that wouldn't happen. Just because someone is LGB doesn't mean it's time to talk about kinky sexual fetishes or whatever. Don't oversexualize. And I'm not even asking that sexuality be stated so directly as that (although it might be in some particular backgrounds).

I was intentionally being over the top to be a little silly. Sometimes it's the best way to address a subject. And technically a fetish isn't strictly sexual. I could have easily said "and his favorite color is green". I probably should have in retrospect. In any case, I think it would give some people pause due to the misconceptions people have about LGB and that can lead to lost sales.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

We should also consider non-sexuals. People who are apathetic about sex.

 

Which is everybody in my games.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

I suppose, to a large extent, it comes down to role-playing preferences, even perhaps whether a group likes to RP much non-combat/non-adventure-related stuff at all. DNPC interactions, secret ID interactions, downtime interactions with other PCs, side projects and other stuff PCs work on in their spare time, blue booking--if your group doesn't do much of this stuff, odds are they're not really all that "into" the role-playing aspect of the game. Sure, they play in character when it comes time to investigate, and to confront the villain, but that may be the extent of it. And that's perfectly fine, no such thing as badwrongfun when it comes to group play styles. But I've never encountered a group that engaged in all the above mentioned sub-plots, blue-booking etc., and didn't RP romance/dating/social life subplots as well.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

I suppose' date=' to a large extent, it comes down to role-playing preferences, even perhaps whether a group likes to RP much non-combat/non-adventure-related stuff at all. DNPC interactions, secret ID interactions, downtime interactions with other PCs, side projects and other stuff PCs work on in their spare time, blue booking--if your group doesn't do much of this stuff, odds are they're not really all that "into" the role-playing aspect of the game. Sure, they play in character when it comes time to investigate, and to confront the villain, but that may be the extent of it. And that's perfectly fine, no such thing as badwrongfun when it comes to group play styles. But I've never encountered a group that engaged in all the above mentioned sub-plots, blue-booking etc., and didn't RP romance/dating/social life subplots as well.[/quote']

 

I'm going to disagree quite heavily that just because you don't like to RP romance, that means you don't like to RP period.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

I'm going to disagree quite heavily that just because you don't like to RP romance' date=' that means you don't like to RP period.[/quote']

 

Not precisely what I said. IME, though, I haven't really run into groups that like to RP all aspects of a PC's life except Romance. The less directly relevant it is to whatever the plot du jour is, the less likely they are to want to RP it. Again, just my experience, in 3-4 different groups. I'd be happy to be enlightened otherwise, though.

[Jhaierr]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Let's consider comics. How many comic books by the big two (Marvel and DC) had titles feature a hero or heroine of color that has lasted more than 50 issues? How many featuring white hero or heroines?

 

I don't know, honestly. But I'm not talking about making all of the primary characters in Champions LGB. I think you can't compare sales of comics directly with Hero books.

 

What about the new bi-racial Spider-man? That itself seemed to have caused quite a stir among comic book fans and not all of it good.

 

Wouldn't this have more to do with something like "You are changing a character I know already into someone else"? People said that about the Kingpin in the Daredevil movie. But I doubt they would've had so much trouble if there was a new character that was Black.

 

I was intentionally being over the top to be a little silly. Sometimes it's the best way to address a subject. And technically a fetish isn't strictly sexual. I could have easily said "and his favorite color is green". I probably should have in retrospect. In any case, I think it would give some people pause due to the misconceptions people have about LGB and that can lead to lost sales.

 

In this situation you were talking about a fetish in a sexual sense. I think that's fairly clear. Maybe more realistic example of a situation would be: "If the background of Kinetik revealed a romantic relationship with a guy, would people be more or less likely to buy Hero products?"

[Bloodstone]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Let's consider comics. How many comic books by the big two (Marvel and DC) had titles feature a hero or heroine of color that has lasted more than 50 issues? How many featuring white hero or heroines?

 

Feature? Many.

 

Starring? Don't know... would have to do some research. Certainly Black Panther, who has over 100 issues to his name. Power Man too, if we include the issues where it was Power Man & Iron Fist.

 

However, no one has actually asked for starring roles here.

 

Featured would be a step in the right direction...

 

What about the new bi-racial Spider-man? That itself seemed to have caused quite a stir among comic book fans and not all of it good.

 

A step in the right direction, but somewhat irrelevant at the moment.

 

He's brand new. We have no idea if the character will have any lasting value at this time.

 

He could end up being written so poorly that he's he's totally offensive to (or just plain ignored by) African- and Mexican-Americans everywhere.

 

Or he could end up being so perfect that they eventually move him from the Ultimate Universe to 616.

 

Hopefully, we'll get a decent compromise where he and peter can both be awesome. That's pretty much Win/Win in my book.

 

But plenty of fans are pissed that Ultimate Peter Parker died to make way for a new Ultimate Spidey, so Miles Morales has an uphill battle ahead of himself, just like Ryan Choi, Jamie Reyes or Jason Rusch did.

 

It's THE WORST way to introduce a new character period, but ESPECIALLY a minority character. You get folks up in arms screaming about affirmative action and what not...

 

Lets hope Bendis is up to the challenge. My money is on no, but his heart is in the right place and I really do respect him for trying. The things he said about Donald Glover were awesome and to do this is, IMO, a wonderful move.

 

Of course, the Internet will troll the hell out of this. And speaking of trolls, Glen Beck, who knows about as much about comics as I do about being a high paid douchebag pundit, can rant and rave about it all he wants. For the most part, all he'll accomplish is making non-comic readers continue to not read comics while blaming Obama for the death of Peter Parker

 

In any case, I think it would give some people pause due to the misconceptions people have about LGB and that can lead to lost sales.

 

Champions books are generally fairly PG-13, but lets be honest here...

 

We have an in canon fraternal twin brother/sister villain team that are involved in a long standing relationship involving sex magic, demons, bondage gear and, most importantly, EACH OTHER! We have it in print that they are having sex.

 

If we're not afraid to offend the readership with something like THAT, I'm pretty sure we're going to be ok mentioning that someone like Cataran has a DNPC girlfriend or that Mayte Sanchez secretly has a crush on her gal pal, Sapphire...

[Jhaierr]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

I'm just going to create a pic of me holding up a sign that says "What Bloodstone said." It'll be much easier.

[Tasha]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

You're preaching to the choir as far as I'm concerned. I love that kind of thing but apparently Christopher (and others) do not. And that's cool.

 

Most of the longest lived Champions games that I have been in have been part Soap Opera with Superpowers. It's one of the things that make good comic stories (along with the Supers Kicking butt from time to time)

[The Weapon]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

For most part I just think that with Kigatilik on the loose' date=' the walking dead, the ice-demons and the hunder patriots on the move he was just slightly to busy to hit on anybody...[/quote']

 

There's always time to hit on someone. Not always time to go through with it, but flirting in Hero System is a zero phase action.

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

The target audience for superhero RPG tends to be hetro white males so a company would do well to pander ... I mean cater to that demographic. For better or worse, things like sexuality, religion, political affiliation, etc aren't mentioned in the character descriptions unless they are key parts to the character. And while it does tend to suck not knowing for sure if the heroes and villains in the book match (or in the villain case oppose) your own choices, in some ways it really doesn't matter. Plus by not mentioning it, you avoid some backlash from the customers and public. If Steve Long came out and said, "Defender is bisexual with a fetish for being Entangled." would people be more or less likely to buy Hero products? (Sorry Mr.Long, not trying to put words in your mouth, just offering a hypothetical.) In a business, sometimes you have to make these decisions.

 

But I still wouldn't mind seeing more diversity in heroes/heroines. Being good should not be linked to being a particular race, gender, religion, political affiliation, whatever.

 

Fair enough and a good point but I think there is something of a market out there. Strictly anecdotal but three of the longest running and most well attended Champions games (online or f2f) I know of focus on GLB characters and many of the players share those orientations. The players I've talked too enjoy the game because it make them feel more a part of the world than the "traditional" supers settings. I admit, sometimes those games seems to go too far in the opposite direction but that may be because I'm simply not used to seeing the subject matter handled so openly and directly.

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Most of the longest lived Champions games that I have been in have been part Soap Opera with Superpowers. It's one of the things that make good comic stories (along with the Supers Kicking butt from time to time)

 

Agreed. You have to break something sometimes.

 

Edit: and to be fair our games probably lean more towards Soap Opera than many would find enjoyable.

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

We should also consider non-sexuals. People who are apathetic about sex. They may have a preference and don't mind looking but realize that due to their powers or some other reason don't have much motivation to perform the physical act. Take Blackstar and Thunderbolt for example. What would happen to their partners if their powers suddenly activated wildly when they ummm peaked? Condoms can only protect against so much.

 

Dr Destroyer always struck me as potentially asexual. I recall it being mentioned more than once where some women have been interested in him romantically but know he "doesn't concern himself with such things" or similar.

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Of course' date=' the Internet will troll the hell out of this. And speaking of trolls, Glen Beck, who knows about as much about comics as I do about being a high paid douchebag pundit, can rant and rave about it all he wants. For the most part, all he'll accomplish is making non-comic readers continue to not read comics while blaming Obama for the death of Peter Parker ...[/quote']

 

Beck ranted about the new Spider-man? You wouldn't happen to have a link would you?

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

I'm just going to create a pic of me holding up a sign that says "What Bloodstone said." It'll be much easier.

 

Can I have a copy when you're done?

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

We should also consider non-sexuals. People who are apathetic about sex. They may have a preference and don't mind looking but realize that due to their powers or some other reason don't have much motivation to perform the physical act. Take Blackstar and Thunderbolt for example. What would happen to their partners if their powers suddenly activated wildly when they ummm peaked? Condoms can only protect against so much.

 

Powers that restricted your character's choice of partners wouldn't nessecarily make them asexual. Highly frustrated maybe but not asexual.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Beck ranted about the new Spider-man? You wouldn't happen to have a link would you?

 

As a matter of fact I would. Mind you, it's not that much of a "rant" on Beck's part, so I suppose that label was misleading:

 

http://prospect.org/csnc/blogs/adam_serwer_archive?month=08&year=2011&base_name=glenn_beck_new_spiderman_looks

 

The real ranting came from his various lunatic followers...

 

Then again, it's not like that's all Becks fault. The last few days have been pretty awful on many of the forums I visit. The racism has been utterly appalling, but I attribute at least some of that to the anonymity of the internet.

 

And Ultimate Peter Parker was a seriously well liked character... can't stress that enough. If people didn't love him so much, this probably wouldn't be anywhere near as bad.

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

As a matter of fact I would. Mind you, it's not that much of a "rant" on Beck's part, so I suppose that label was misleading:

 

http://prospect.org/csnc/blogs/adam_serwer_archive?month=08&year=2011&base_name=glenn_beck_new_spiderman_looks

 

The real ranting came from his various lunatic followers...

 

Then again, it's not like that's all Becks fault. The last few days have been pretty awful on many of the forums I visit. The racism has been utterly appalling, but I attribute at least some of that to the anonymity of the internet.

 

And Ultimate Peter Parker was a seriously well liked character... can't stress that enough. If people didn't love him so much, this probably wouldn't be anywhere near as bad.

 

Oh geez, that's just pathetic.

[Christopher]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Different strokes for different folks. Personally I enjoy character interaction' date=' dealing with relationships and their difficulties and rewards both as it relates to being a costumed crimefighter (or whatever), your kidnappings, hostage situations and whatnot and more mundane things like dealing with family, children, trying to maintain a relationship in a stressful lifestyle, finding time to spend with a loved one etc. A game that was a consecutive string of fight scenes and investigation rolls would be dull to me.[/quote']

I am not against role playing, absolutely, and I don't have problems playing out flirting (but not on f2f), but afaik Marvel or DC Marriages never last and not because of mundane problems, but because of Demon Posession, Kidnappings, Mind Controlls and that stuff.

Not every realtionship needs that permanent amount of uncertinity, mindbeinding stress and Trauma foder to be interesting and good.

 

"I don't fly. I move the universe around me."

That is the SFX of the Dark Matter Engines in Futurama: "The Engines don't move the ship. The ship stays in pace, the drive moves the universe around it".

 

They do. Every character written with an opposite sex DNPC or a mention of how he's motivated by the death of his wife or the girl who rejected him in college gets that extra effort.

In germany we have a saying ,that can be translated as: "A single bird does not makes it spring."

Just because there is one current/possible/killed Girlfriend notedm, does not means they are not bisexual.

 

Powers that restricted your character's choice of partners wouldn't nessecarily make them asexual. Highly frustrated maybe but not asexual.

I considere that with my female brick, actually. "Yes, yes, YESSSS *crack* Honey?" is just not a very nice situation, so "Mr. Cuddly would need the resistance to survive being Mr. Cuddly." Damn 40-60 STR...

I always wondered how superman does it. Especially since according to smallville his heat-vision is activated by not PG-13 thoughts and emotions. And don't forgett his super-breath.

I don't think it is fun for long, if you can't ever let go...