World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

[novi]

Many superhero settings include the premise that things are just like real life, except those things specific to the plot. But, this is a world with different laws of physics. Or at least altered biology. Just how would that affect the world?

 

No, seriously. That's the point of this thread. Brainstorming! What would the world be like if superheroes could exist, and the world really did work like it does in comics and movies, and it did so for everyone?

 

For the sake of argument, let's make this a single origin setting, though with relatively unlimited powers. It all goes back to the Empyreans (or Eternals, or whatever), functionally immortal beings with superpowers due to experiments by ancient astronauts. They have small numbers, and have decided to hide the truth from the rest of humanity. But they walk among us, leading false lives, siring many bastard children, all seemingly human. However, by the 20th century, there had been enough interbreeding that clear signs of the Empyrean heritage started to appear. The humans called them superheros and supervillains. It started with people suffering otherwise fatal accidents, but surviving and gaining strange powers. Then, teenagers started to develop powers in puberty.

 

However, powers weren't the only thing. Many more people showed smaller talents, abilities seemingly in line with normal human abilities, or subtle enough to escape notice. (i.e., how are we to say that Michael Jordan or Pamela Anderson aren't actually mutants? Or centenarians who smoke and drink and cook with lard?) And, perhaps, powered humans had shown up earlier in history, but rarely, and their true nature distorted with the passage of time?

 

Also, for the sake of argument, two more guidelines: First, by and large, broad strokes of history remain the same as our world. If just to keep this from becoming an alternate history thread.

 

Second, assume that the world contains all shades of morality from pure white to darkest black, but with the bell curve centered a little white from the middle. (Which is how I would classify the real world. Not the "real world" from the Iron Age, but the world we live in. Let's not argue this one too much, 'kay?)

 

 

In any case, here are some starter ideas.

 

1) Humanity is generally more attractive, in the sense that the world looks more like it does in movies and tv. Not a big deal, since everyone is used to the new standard, though someone from our world might notice it at some point.

 

2) Full grown men and women can perform Olympic-class gymnastics, as the reference point used for many trained normals goes. Among other things, this means that Women's gymnastics would have actual women, and not just teen girls, in it. Again, not a big change overall, but it's the little changes that add to the verisimilitude.

 

3) In keeping with the last point, another visual change you might see is in American football. With the extra agility possible, jumping/flipping over defensive linesmen might be a valid tactic. Depends just how strong the Rule of Cool is.

 

 

What other things would we see?

 

Strictly speaking, this is a reconstructionist concept.

[assault]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

Technology is more advanced, but is rarely applied to consumer products. The latter are, however, more advanced than in our world, but it's mainly only the weird stuff (robots!) that anyone from here would notice.

 

For example: space travel is far more advanced, but is still essentially the province of scientists and explorers. (And maybe the odd family...)

[Ranxerox]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

I think we would see a lot more extreme sports because people would be generally more incline to survive mishaps. Also, things might become a little more democratic in that fewer people would be constrained by their personal appearance in what they could hope to become.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

If you want to go dark, think Gattaca. Anyone without this superior line of descent would be relegated to second-class citizenship. Think of someone who would be outstanding in our world being merely acceptable in this universe and being forced to eke out a living at subsistence levels due to the severe skewing of nature's Bell curve. I'm imagining a caste system based on your level of superiority from a set baseline.

 

If you want to go darker, what if there were normal folk who actively tried to level the playing field. You would finally have a reasonable explanation for Marvel's mutant hysteria storyline. These people really are taking over the world, and they really do have an unfair advantage over normal folk.

[freakboy6117]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

Heavy fire power is much more commonly used by criminals automatic weapons explosives and body armour are the norm not the exception for most criminals

[novi]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

True enough. The most convincing explanation I've run across for the uselessness of Reed Richards is that the gulf between being able to make something at any price and being able to make it at a reasonable price. Such as the difference between a Bugatti Veryon and a Toyota Camry.

 

Also along that line, someone who can transmute matter, a la Dr. Manhattan, will be set for life/a valuable national asset. Gold is worth over $30,000 per kilo, and is far from the most valuable element/mineral out there.

[novi]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

Well, yes. But truth be told, I was wondering about effects outside the traditional scope of comics, aka, crime, superheroing, supervillainy, and bleeding-edge technology.

[Ravor]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

People will tend to get sick less often and live longer, so I imagine that legal limits based on age will be somewhat higher and medical knowledge might actually be less advanced.

[Folded]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

There's gonna be lots of those smaller talents, assuming any kind of probabilistic distribution. The big ones are out there bashing each other's skulls in, while the majority of the minor supers are going to find that they're really good accountants, or some such (20 INT, Lightning Calculator, Eidetic Memory, etc). I wrote one story about a guy who could transform himself into a heavily muscled creature with claws that could cut through stone. He used this power... as a sculptor. Not everyone with powers, even major ones, is going to think in terms of comic book superheroing or anything similar.

 

As to other, specific effects-

DARPA has more or less a blank check to develop predictable super-soldiers/agents based on the special gene-strain. Similarly in other countries.

Many smaller countries will suddenly have much more effective troops, both major and minor. Inflate the general level of conflict as seems reasonable.

Interesting legal problems. Mental powers especially will cause problems. Can you prove that I wasn't under someone else's control when I committed that crime?

Support groups for people who are either a)secretly superpowered or b)have been victimized by supers

Incredible numbers of property-damage lawsuits brought against anyone involved in a supers battle. Likewise for personal injury.

Talented and Gifted programs take on a whole new meaning.

People who are really good at Counter Strike are no longer accused of using bots, but of being super.

Physicists worldwide rename the Laws of Physics as the Sort Of General Guidelines That We Think Sometimes Apply Kind Of.

Suicide rate among scientists skyrockets.

Entirely new categories of porn.

[Christopher]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

Also along that line' date=' someone who can transmute matter, a la Dr. Manhattan, will be set for life/a valuable national asset. Gold is worth over $30,000 per kilo, and is far from the most valuable element/mineral out there.[/quote']

I think he would need to put in a lot of points/endurance to make those valuable materials. Plus the really (for supertech) relevant ones might be off limits. If not, villians would have captured him to get their plebotium instead of stealing it.

 

Many smaller countries will suddenly have much more effective troops' date=' both major and minor. Inflate the general level of conflict as seems reasonable.[/quote']

Population is more resource. Higher population = higher number of metas. That makes "normal" technological advantages less usefull ("So you have a dozen satelites? Captain Cosmos can knock them down in 2 hours).

Expect China to get a lot more powerfull.

Expect Isreal to fall or hire/breed superhumans. They always relied on technological advantages and had a lousy population (under 8 Million).

Europe might have more Supers than it needs.

Expect some nations to be ruled/overthrown by superhumans.

 

Interesting legal problems. Mental powers especially will cause problems. Can you prove that I wasn't under someone else's control when I committed that crime?

Support groups for people who are either a)secretly superpowered or b)have been victimized by supers

Incredible numbers of property-damage lawsuits brought against anyone involved in a supers battle. Likewise for personal injury.

And now consider the 20 INT guy being a lawyer...

 

Physicists worldwide rename the Laws of Physics as the Sort Of General Guidelines That We Think Sometimes Apply Kind Of.

Suicide rate among scientists skyrockets.

I think they would rather start to classify and understand superpowers.

Technology could skyrocket - or perhaps even decline.

 

Entirely new categories of porn.

Because of growth/shrinking, the Catgirls or the Shapeshifters?

[Cancer]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

Entirely new categories of porn.

 

Because of growth/shrinking' date=' the Catgirls or the Shapeshifters?[/quote']

 

Rule 34. Alternately, with great power comes great perversion.

[sinanju]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

I'd think that rather than "physics as we know it" is a guideline, not a rule, it's more like Movie Physics rules the day. Ordinary humans can survive amazing things (which makes developing superpowers from radioactive spider bites or chemical accidents somewhat less bizarre). This ties into ordinary humans being capable of Olympic level shooting/fighting/acrobatics--it's simply easier in this universe.

 

"Over the top" action and kung fu movies are far less outlandish in this universe.

 

The Wild Cards novels (22 and counting at this date) have some interesting ideas too. Many "supers", as you mentioned, never get into crime-fighting. They use their abilities in their daily lives, or to make a niche for themselves doing things nobody else can do (or can do only with great effort/expense).

[phoenix240]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

So a world that works more like Action Movie physics/biology than real world physics? Crimes might be more dramatic and violent. Incidents such as the fully armed bank robbers shooting up city blocks might be more common. "lone heroes" might be more common as well as "maverick cops" and "super soldiers" vs dozens of lesser opponents becomes more feasible. Rambo and Die Hard could be documentaries, for good and ill.

 

Combat over all might look very different as evasion has a noteworthy effect even against gunfire. Martial arts might be more popular as their genuinely more effective. Things like the Boxer rebellion might have turned out somewhat differently, for instance.

[novi]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

Entirely new categories of porn.

 

Because of growth/shrinking' date=' the Catgirls or the Shapeshifters?[/quote']

 

Rule 34. Alternately' date=' with great power comes great perversion.[/quote']

 

Well, yes. I had thought that so obvious as to not be worth mentioning.

And your statement is technically correct; while such fetishes already exist, porn in video form of them doesn't (at least not without special effects).

 

Though, that does raise a question. Will sex tapes become less scandalous because it's so easy to explain it away as shapeshifters?

[novi]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

So a world that works more like Action Movie physics/biology than real world physics? Crimes might be more dramatic and violent. Incidents such as the fully armed bank robbers shooting up city blocks might be more common. "lone heroes" might be more common as well as "maverick cops" and "super soldiers" vs dozens of lesser opponents becomes more feasible. Rambo and Die Hard could be documentaries, for good and ill.

 

Combat over all might look very different as evasion has a noteworthy effect even against gunfire. Martial arts might be more popular as their genuinely more effective. Things like the Boxer rebellion might have turned out somewhat differently, for instance.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was trying to say. If it helps anyone understand my thought process.

[novi]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

Physicists worldwide rename the Laws of Physics as the Sort Of General Guidelines That We Think Sometimes Apply Kind Of.

Suicide rate among scientists skyrockets.

 

Why does everyone always say that? In this world, they wouldn't have any notion that it is anything but the way the world works? At least, as long as we keep the physics-busting consistent.

[Folded]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

Why does everyone always say that? In this world' date=' they wouldn't have any notion that it is anything but the way the world works? At least, as long as we keep the physics-busting consistent.[/quote']

 

Well, the last three were primarily for humor value, but scientists do face problems in a superhero world. Even something as simple in concept as super-strength requires either some kind of power being used that is not obvious (No Range Telekinesis), or extensive design and physiological changes to the organism. If I can lift a truck, it's not just that my muscles got stronger, it's also my skeleton, connective tissues, and joints had to get stronger as well. Secondary systems also have to be altered to fuel these muscles and build the other physical aspects of the character. And yet, this person still qualifies genetically as human (unless supers cannot breed with others, which you have already said they can).

 

If the power is something like Telekinesis, we still have to know where the energy used to move the object is coming from, and how the human consciousness is able to control it. The human body does not produce that level of energy in a natural way, so either there is a new power source in that person, or they are getting that energy from somewhere else.

 

There is only so fast that a nerve impulse can travel (a few hundred miles per hour). How, then, is the speedster able to operate so fast? They're moving faster than the nerve impulses used to control their muscles, and are able to react in ways that physics says they should not be able to. They're responding to things that are coming at them faster than their brains can register. There are a million questions like these that come up when you start introducing superpowers into a universe. The whole idea of a super is that they are doing impossible things. Given that the emergence of these abilities in your world is relatively recent, and given that the history of scientific thought is therefore largely unchanged, science is going to have a mental breakdown when all of this happens. It will, eventually, recover, but initially, there will be a lot of people going nuts.

[CoreBrute]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

Population is more resource. Higher population = higher number of metas. That makes "normal" technological advantages less usefull ("So you have a dozen satelites? Captain Cosmos can knock them down in 2 hours)...

Expect Isreal to fall or hire/breed superhumans. They always relied on technological advantages and had a lousy population (under 8 Million).

 

Actually, if powers started showing up in the 20th century, you've forgotten one important fact. Hitler would be less able to exterminate jews in concentration camps, given the fact more could escape (teleportation, bend metal etc) or throw off the oppression. So infact, there might be more jews, thus Israel could have a larger population.

 

Also Israel has both compulsory military conscription, and their commandos and Mossad are some of the most well trained fighters in the world (unless you've got balls of steel, Krav Maga still hurts). So don't count Israel out yet.

 

Also, if we consider technological superiority, what about the genius level inventors in Israel? If they could build half the stuff Reed Richards or Dr Doom could make, numbers is not as much of an issue.

Expect some nations to be ruled/overthrown by superhumans.

 

Or, they could be elected in repeatedly, if a super is incredibly charismatic as a power.

[Christopher]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

The human body does not produce that level of energy in a natural way, so either there is a new power source in that person, or they are getting that energy from somewhere else.

[...]

There is only so fast that a nerve impulse can travel (a few hundred miles per hour). How, then, is the speedster able to operate so fast? They're moving faster than the nerve impulses used to control their muscles, and are able to react in ways that physics says they should not be able to. They're responding to things that are coming at them faster than their brains can register. There are a million questions like these that come up when you start introducing superpowers into a universe.

You asume that nervous impulses are still limited by the speed of light. And Newtons energy Rules still hold true.

Wich is exaclty what is not the chase anymore.

 

Actually, if powers started showing up in the 20th century, you've forgotten one important fact. Hitler would be less able to exterminate jews in concentration camps, given the fact more could escape (teleportation, bend metal etc) or throw off the oppression. So infact, there might be more jews, thus Israel could have a larger population.

 

[...]

 

Also Israel has both compulsory military conscription, and their commandos and Mossad are some of the most well trained fighters in the world (unless you've got balls of steel, Krav Maga still hurts). So don't count Israel out yet.

 

Also, if we consider technological superiority, what about the genius level inventors in Israel? If they could build half the stuff Reed Richards or Dr Doom could make, numbers is not as much of an issue.

 

For the first part, see the OP:

Also' date=' for the sake of argument, two more guidelines: First, by and large, broad strokes of history remain the same as our world. If just to keep this from becoming an alternate history thread.[/quote']

Since we talk about millions extra death, I'd say it#s definetely a "mayor part of history".

 

For the second:

Whatever isreal has, Egypt, Iran, Siria and all the others have a lot more of them.

[CoreBrute]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

My Mistake, did not see that part of history remaining the same. Thought 20th century super heroes would make things very different.

[Lucius]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

Also' date=' for the sake of argument, two more guidelines: First, by and large, broad strokes of history remain the same as our world. If just to keep this from becoming an alternate history thread[/quote']

 

Too late. It became an alternate history thread the moment you typed this paragraph.

 

Many superhero settings include the premise that things are just like real life' date=' except those things specific to the plot. But, this is a world with different laws of physics. Or at least altered biology. Just how would that affect the world?[/quote']

 

Also along that line, someone who can transmute matter, a la Dr. Manhattan, will be set for life/a valuable national asset. Gold is worth over $30,000 per kilo, and is far from the most valuable element/mineral out there.

 

And gold would be worth much less if someone were cranking it out by the kilo.

 

My Mistake' date=' did not see that part of history remaining the same. Thought 20th century super heroes would make things very different.[/quote']

 

They would. Inevitably.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Superpalindromedary

[Christopher]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

I think the mayor change:

People would be better prepared for superhumans.

 

Security Systems would have to cover things like fliers, desolidifiers, mentalist, shapeshifters. Not all of them combined. When the enemy is that organised, they can just disable the security on one of a dozen easier ways anyway so it's hardly worth the effort. If any of the powers leave "residue", expect law enforcement to be able to find it and catalog it.

 

Overall change to points/powerlevels: None.

If everyone get's powers, you could just say that everyone get's 10% of their points only for powers. Or maybe it just means your see 100 point normals with 10-20 Real Cost worth of minor powers fairly often.

It could become somewhat tiresome to make mooks, as everyone could have a different set of minor powers. Unless you asume they are just get some minor supersoldier serum that also drives out most other minor powers (so they are very equal).

[Folded]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

For an interesting study on the kinds of societal changes that might result from just one superpower becoming possible and common, read The Stars My Destination, by Alfred Bester. The power in question is teleportation (called jaunting), and it seriously changes the way the world works. It also happens to be a great story.

 

Oh, and nerve impulses are limited by the speed of electrochemical reactions, which are relatively slow. Anyone whose nerve impulses travel significantly faster than that is not using what we would recognize as an organic nervous system, or they're manipulating their passage through time, either of which would involve a fundamental change in our understanding of biology and physics. For that matter, if nerve impulses are no longer limited by the speed of light, then relativity comes into question, which would cause a few problems in the scientific community as well.

 

I want to stress that science would recover. There is some root capability that the Ancients had and passed down. It is some form of space/time/energy/matter/force manipulation, conscious or otherwise. Science would find out what that was and learn to harness it, or at least understand it, eventually (centuries, maybe). But the short-term effects on that community would be intense.

[novi]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

I want to stress that science would recover. There is some root capability that the Ancients had and passed down. It is some form of space/time/energy/matter/force manipulation' date=' conscious or otherwise. Science would find out what that was and learn to harness it, or at least understand it, eventually (centuries, maybe). But the short-term effects on that community would be intense.[/quote']

 

Okay, I did sort of mean it this way; that while scientists wouldn't be able to explain everything outright, most of them would rather investigate why and how something violates the known laws of physics, rather than jump off their labs. While some would react poorly to paradigm shifts, most would react with "that shouldn't be possible. Why is it possible?" And start finding ways to measure what's going on.

 

And, for that matter, science is never done. Even something like relativity is still being tested, almost 100 years after everyone agreed it was right.

Or, cracked.com's take one things: http://www.cracked.com/article_19442_8-simple-questions-you-wont-believe-science-cant-answer.html

 

Of course, this depends on superpowers being consistent in their operation. While not required, it would thematically follow from calling this a single-source world. At least to my thinking.

[novi]

Re: World-building: When what works for the heroes works for everyone?

 

Too late. It became an alternate history thread the moment you typed this paragraph.

 

Well, yes. But in the same context, every fictional story ever involves an alternate universe/history; Hamlet did not happen in this universe, nor did Pride and Prejudice, or any other title you care to name. However, no one really cares about that in normal fiction, as it's not the focus. But in the genre of alternate history, the focus is on what would be different and how it would change. Alternate history is always set in an alternate universe, but not every alternate universe is alternate history.

 

I will also grant that I am invoking alternate history, but I don't want to focus on specific events. I want to look at things from more of an anthropological standpoint than a historical standpoint. Which I hope makes sense to everyone.

 

And, just to put dates on things, let's keep things essentially the same up through WWII. It had such a large impact on history and the world that trying to imagine a world without it is very difficult, and would sort of become the point rather than whatever else might be looked at. Let's say that there are superhumans by this point, but they're not powerful enough or numerous to greatly alter the course of the war, to the extent that it's over in 1945 and the Allies are victorious.