Using Champions Battlegrounds

[Captain Liberty]

I have one major disappointment with this book, but it's based on an unrealistic hope and I'll deal with the disappointment below.

In general, I think it is a very good basis for a mini-campaign and I intend to use it as such. Adapting it to my own universe is taking a little work, but the result will, I think, be worth it.

One lesser disappointment is the identity of the master villain. I think it might have been more effective if the master villain was one of the established villains of the universe.

After all, the whole book consists of interactions with many of the major players in the Champions Universe. It's a major buildup, and all of a sudden you are facing Interface, whom no one has ever heard of. Given that, I am not sure who would have been a good master villain in this situation. Perhaps Mechanon would be the most appropriate.

But this is a small disappointment.

The major disappointment to me was that I was hoping that the book would, in fact, consist of real battlegrounds. Playing-sized maps of the areas fought in, sort of like the maps supplied in the HeroClix Starter Sets. Those maps are very useful and I have used most of them in the last few months.

Many many years ago Hero had a set of hex maps of interesting locales, on the same scale as the street corner map still offered in the Champions GM Screen package. A new package of skyscrapers, hotels, warehouses, villains bases, banks, military bases, and the like would be very useful indeed and I hope someone picks up on this idea and does such a package. I suppose a generic Hero System Maps package would be all right, but I'd like a strictly Champions-oriented version, as I'm sure others would.

[Monolith]

If you have read Champions Universe or Millennium City you will see that the main villain in CB is mentioned throughout both of those books as being a major threat to MC. So in this instance what HERO Games is doing is giving you an established villain that you have had previous information about but no character write-up for.

 

As far as the battlemaps go, yes, they would be nice but I never expected them. And you might also want to try and get a hold of a copy of the HERO System Resource Kit. HERO Games published 3 double-sided maps in that 5E resource to go along with their GM's Screen.

 

As far as past maps go, I do remember Steve Jackson publishing maps in 1" hexes, and they still do, but I never remember any incarnation of Hero Games every publishing a maps supplement. Perhaps you are thinking about the GURPS material?

[Captain Liberty]

So he was mentioned

 

I sit corrected. Interface was mentioned once, by name, with no information in both Millenium City and Champions Universe. Given that I have read both books a half dozen times each, at least, the mention is obviously not terribly prominent. It is also interesting that everyone else mentioned in the same paragraphs are well known. Perhaps Battlegrounds should have mentioned these previous mentions (or, more likely, Steve and Darren realized that they had a brand new supervillain coming up in Battlegrounds so they shoehorned the mentions of Interface into the other books to "pave the way.").

In any case, one mention in each book is hardly "throughout."

 

I believe the maps were published in Different Worlds magazine. Lamentably they were in a very popular issue so I never got a chance to glom onto them, even though I worked at Chaosium (DW's publisher) at the time.

 

The maps were done by the same artist who did the Rosie's Diner map, a longtime Hero hanger-on (I believe he was George MacDonald's roommate at one time) who died a tragically short time after the maps were made. His name is not coming to me at the moment.

[Monolith]

Re: So he was mentioned

 

Originally posted by Captain Liberty

In any case, one mention in each book is hardly "throughout."

This is true, but Interface is mentioned just as often as any other non-statted villain throughout the books. I would also point attention to the fact that in CU he is described as a "mastermind" and in MC he is grouped as a "master villain" along side Dr. Destroyer, Mechanon, Gravitar, Holocaust, and Firewing. This implies that he is more than just someone no one has ever heard of. He is a "mover and shaker" villain that was not previously statted. That was taken care of in CB.

 

In any event I have no problem with an adventure including new villains in it, even if they are not previously mentioned. IMO the whole purpose of an adventure is to give players new villains to use in their games.

 

I believe the maps were published in Different Worlds magazine. Lamentably they were in a very popular issue so I never got a chance to glom onto them, even though I worked at Chaosium (DW's publisher) at the time.

Yes, I have those maps. They were quite interesting and very useful, but I was under the impression that those maps were just a Different Worlds perk and really had nothing to do with Hero Games. I do not believe Hero Games paid to have those maps included within the book. I could be wrong in that regard though.

[keithcurtis]

It was my fervent hope when I first learned of the assignment, that I would be doing battlemat-sized maps for Champions. I felt there were some serious scale problems with the ones in the Resource Kit and would love to work on a project so useful. However, Hero Games decided that they were not cost effective for inclusion in a print product. In some cases, such as the mall and the park this is understandable, since they could not be easily reproduced at 1" = 2m. As for the other maps, only Hero Games knows what is and is not possible to do with the capital they have to work with. If they say it can't be done, then it's not going to be done.

 

Keith "Battleground Cartographer" Curtis

 

PS, as an aside, it is my philosphy to always include a hex grid on any map I do for Hero, as long as the inclusion would not be artistically barabaric. You can always blow up your book on a photocopier for home use.

 

PPS. For every person wanting established villains, there are just as many people complaining that they already paid for the old villains and request new ones. Hero Games literally cannot make a right decision on this one. No matter what they choose, someone will complain.

[Captain Liberty]

Last Response

 

Thank you, Keith. I thought the detail on those maps bespoke at least a wish to make them full size. Sorry it didn't happen.

 

The maps in Different Worlds were commissioned by the editor of Different Worlds. The only Hero Games connection was the use of the same artist who did the previous maps for Hero. I never said that Hero did those maps. I just wish Hero would DO similar maps.

 

The only problem I have with Interface, which I said was a MINOR disappointment (and every product has those) was that the book went out of its way to showcase established villains in the Champions Universe, then used a "name in the crowd" as the master villain. Doesn't make him a bad villain. In fact, I intend to use him pretty much as is.

 

I'd also like to reiterate that I found the book, for what it is, a very good example of a scenario book. I definitely will get use out of it.

[phydaux]

Originally posted by Monolith

And you might also want to try and get a hold of a copy of the HERO System Resource Kit. HERO Games published 3 double-sided maps in that 5E resource to go along with their GM's Screen.

 

What is this GM's Screen you speak of? I haven't seen one, and I've been looking...

[Captain Liberty]

Resource Pack

 

The Resource Pack IS the GM Screen, and a few other things like character sheets, the aforementioned maps, and so forth. The maps are nice, but the futuristic and medieval maps by their very nature are not always useful as superhero maps, though they do serve for some functions - and lor knows there are plenty of times that superheroes get caught in futuristic or medieval situations.

[ChocolateMousje]

Actually, I think it makes more sense to have the mastermind be a new villain... existing campaign masterminds could already be busy elsewhere, forcing you to change your storyline or scramble to fit someone else in. This way, if you'd rather have it be Mechanon instead, you already have his stats.

 

Meanwhile, this thread has given me an idea. I was already going to give next sessions villains a little boost... but instead of generic gadgets, a little misdirection is probably in order... maybe it should look like Warlord's technology...

[TheEmerged]

RE: Interface being "established". Actually I was disappointed for a different reason: there's no connection, or at least none I could find, between this Interface and the previous one (from Enemies for Hire). Increasingly, my main complaint with the DOJ-era Champions Universe is the lack of connections to the previous era.

 

As for CB in general -- the nature of the campaign I'm running prevents me from running it as intended (my PC's are villains with a 60/40 "we hate Primus" to "show me the money" motivation). I have however been able to pull one of the scenarios off (the one about the building) to the enjoyment of the players. The only scene that didn't work was the press conference, but that was more than made up for with another scene that played MUCH differently with villainous PC's

 

In fact, some of the "twisting" I had to do so my PC's could run this played into one of my metaplots beautifully.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by phydaux

What is this GM's Screen you speak of? I haven't seen one, and I've been looking...

 

The very complete 5E GM's screen is part of the HERO System Resource Kit, which contains several other useful items. The screen is double-sided with all the info printed on both sides so players can also refer to it in-game, which I for one find useful. You can read more about the kit here:

http://www.herogames.com/Products/generalhero.htm

 

Besides the screen, I particularly recommend the character creation summary booklet - very handy for players to refer to during that stage of the process. Unfortunately there are no more paper versions being printed; it's apparently too expensive to print and assemble all the individual pieces. Some copies are still floating around various game retailers and eBay, though. However, the link above includes another to the online store where you can download a PDF version for only $9.99.

 

IIRC DoJ is considering reprinting just the GM screen and the booklet at some future date.

[Killer Shrike]

I ran 2 of the scenarios in CB, Under Construction and the Black Harley/Omegaworld scenario in that order (which is flip flopped from the book).

 

I did Under Construction completely off the PT and started Omegaworld on the PT and finished with CB once it was out (and boy was that fun running it with a map cobbled together as best I could from the description).

 

I had to beef the antagonists a bit to be a threat to the group, but by and large I ran it following the blueprint laid out in CB -- particularly Underconstruction (as there was more scripting involved therein).

 

Both were fun, although the Omegaworld portion turned into a real meat grinder, leaving the PCs extremely battered and bruised -- of course I sent them in immediately after facing Holocaust for the sheer brutality of it all.

 

I dont know if Ill run the rest of the encounters (in whichever order), but by and large it was a lot of fun and my players really seemed to enjoy it.

[JohnOSpencer]

I just found a minor(but annoying) problem in the second adventure. Why in the heck are Foxbatboy and Foxbatgirl tougher than Foxbat? Foxbatboy has 36 STUN and 18/18 defenses, Foxbatgirl has 34 STUN and 18/18 Defenses, Foxbat has 30 STUN and 19/17 defenses. What gives? Sure he is a bit harder to hit, but please. It's kinda silly.

 

Other than that rant, I really almost the whole book. I'm not fond of the third adventure, but then again, Black Harlequinn is not my favorite villian.

 

John Spencer

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by JohnOSpencer

I just found a minor(but annoying) problem in the second adventure. Why in the heck are Foxbatboy and Foxbatgirl tougher than Foxbat? Foxbatboy has 36 STUN and 18/18 defenses, Foxbatgirl has 34 STUN and 18/18 Defenses, Foxbat has 30 STUN and 19/17 defenses. What gives? Sure he is a bit harder to hit, but please. It's kinda silly.

 

Other than that rant, I really almost the whole book. I'm not fond of the third adventure, but then again, Black Harlequinn is not my favorite villian.

 

John Spencer

Give Omegaworld a try. Its a very challenging adventure, and forces the PCs to deal with something besides butt-kicking. The most heroic acts from the current campaign all occured in the Omegaworld adventure, as the PCs braved traps and had to suffer thru attacks to remain focused on saving innocents.

 

I used some of the androids of the shows villains idea, but I had them in the park proper, terrorizing innocents and preventing the victims from fleeing the park. When the PCs showed up, they made life difficult for them while they struggled to save civilians from the various death traps. It was great stuff. Very character defining.

 

Some of the players and characters (not necessarily in a 1 for 1 either) were all to willing to write the civilians off as lost causes, but War Man and Rook refused to do so and took ridiculous, insane chances to save innocents from harm and get between innocents and attackers. Rook (the rightfully named human fortress) ended the battle with 1 BODY, and Warman was at negative BODY and bleeding out, but still on his feet (barely).

 

As a GM I had more fun running Holocaust, just because he's an egotistical easily portrayed single villain, whereas Omegaworld was a LOT to keep track of, but the Black Harlequinn adventure was far more important to the narrative of the characters who faced him.

 

Heres the team site; Rook, Wrath, Warman and Chitin were involved in Omegaworld, with Gravitic arriving at the very very end.

http://www.killershrike.com/MillennialMen/MillennialMen.htm

[Captain Liberty]

Why are the slubs tougher?

 

Speaking as the person who started this thread (but who has nothing else to do with it), I would say that FBBoy and FBGirl were important to Interface because they had to survive long enough to fire every shot out of their guns. Of course, the timeline for their actions gives them NO time to do this, but I figure I can make allowances for that somewhere along the line.

Not that I give them much chance to survive long enough, anyway.

Also, I am using the Enemies Assemble Foxbat, so he's tougher, anyway.

 

Originally posted by JohnOSpencer

I just found a minor(but annoying) problem in the second adventure. Why in the heck are Foxbatboy and Foxbatgirl tougher than Foxbat? Foxbatboy has 36 STUN and 18/18 defenses, Foxbatgirl has 34 STUN and 18/18 Defenses, Foxbat has 30 STUN and 19/17 defenses. What gives? Sure he is a bit harder to hit, but please. It's kinda silly.

 

Other than that rant, I really almost the whole book. I'm not fond of the third adventure, but then again, Black Harlequinn is not my favorite villian.

 

John Spencer

[Captain Liberty]

Black harlequin

 

Originally posted by JohnOSpencer

I'm not fond of the third adventure, but then again, Black Harlequinn is not my favorite villian.

 

John Spencer

 

I use an universe in which most of the comic book characters exist or have existed (all those HeroClix figures sure come in handy). So for this adventure, I intend to use Harley Quinn, with a technology infusion from Interface.

 

Anyone have any ideas about making the scenarion uniquely Harley's? Aside from the addition of a couple of hyenas, that is.

[AlHazred]

If it's going to be Harley Quinn, she's probably doing it to impress the Joker, since the only time she goes out on her own is after a spat. You'll need to add a villain to the soap opera: a thinly-veiled Joker clone who always comes out on the bottom in the scripted altercations, maybe called the Clown or something like that. One of the Justice Force Omega heroes should be a thinly-veiled Batman clone (if you're not using the Champions in your world, perhaps this is a job for camera-shy Nighthawk); I'd add him to the roster, making six team members total. Harley's trying to show the Joker how important he is to her by helping him put one over on Bats during the theme park opening.

 

The thing about Harley Quinn is she comes out of hiding more often than Harlequin does in the module script; you'll have to put her in more of the shots, giving her easy escape routes. Perhaps she's in a couple of the death traps "in disguise" instead of it being a hologram. Or maybe it's a hologram of her in a business suit. On second thought, that'll work better - all the holograms of women in jeopardy are actually her. Hmmm... this might actually be a pretty good substitution...

[Captain Liberty]

Using Harley Quinn

 

Some good notes, Abdul.

 

The Perrinverse is a bit different. The second Batman (formerly Robin) died in the 80s, his place is currently taken by Huntress (1st Batman's daughter) and her sidekick Nightwing (Bruce Grayson). Harley's career has mostly been about harrassing Huntress, mostly independent of the Joker (who is still around, though the body has been found on a number of occasions - the spirit lives on, as it were). She took the name from the Golden Age villainess.

 

But you have several good points. Thanks.

[Magmarock]

My 2 cents...

 

The group I'm running through CB is a bunch of villains (not real bad guys, just misunderstood) who are trying to redeem themselves and become heros under the watchful eye of a mysterious Professor Grey (who is really Dr. Silverback conducting a psycologial experiment). The group's name- The Grey Guardians.

 

The first two scenarios ran ok. The only problem I had in "A Walk in the Park" was that none of the characters had any technical skills and couldn't deal with the bomb. To fix that, I just had it blow up right after they got there. I made the battle the main focus. Considering their unique situation, there were more concerned about fighting the Champions once they arrived. (The Champions are the premere hero group and my heros all are still wanted for some minor crime or other.... outstanding warrants can be a bitch.)

In "Let's Go to the Maul", the glitch was that one player was more interested in killing Foxbat thatn anything else. What a drag.

 

As for "Omegaworld" my group is right in the middle of the scenario at this point- We won't finish it until next Saturday's game. There was a major flaw in "Omegaworld" that my gaming group picked up on right away- the place was built without any security systems or guards! After the first couple of ride situations, my group wanted to shut down the entire park and make everyone leave. I have been trying to convince them that the people who built this place never even conceived of the idea that anyone could or would sabotage the rides, or do anything along terrorist lines in the park for that matter, and that is why there aren't any security measures (cameras and the like). I told them that after this, you bet there will be strong security added to the themepark, but that doesn't help them now. The group went down to the main powerstation and shut off the power. Now they are hunting out the badguy, that they are only guessing is Black Harlequin (it was the robot teddybears that gave them a clue). Obviously, with the power shut down, people are slowly filing out of the park.

 

I expect the game to be real short now.... on to the next scenario.

 

 

 

 

 

Mags

[Brandi]

How's people experiences with Let's Go To the Maul been? I'm thinking of running it as a comedy one-shot, but I feel like I want to change a bunch of the stores around, or even use a slightly smaller mall...

[Captain Liberty]

Using the Mall

 

I just finished the opening episode of my use of CB by taking the suggested plot thread of the New You salon actually being a plot to create superbeings. I made it a plot by FIRE (the equivalen of ARGENT in my universe), which establishes a motivation for Interface to go after my heroes.

 

As a side effect, the Mall now has an open corner storefront available. Wonder who I can move in there...

[keithcurtis]

Re: My 2 cents...

 

Originally posted by Magmarock

The group went down to the main powerstation and shut off the power. Now they are hunting out the badguy, that they are only guessing is Black Harlequin (it was the robot teddybears that gave them a clue). Obviously, with the power shut down, people are slowly filing out of the park.

 

I expect the game to be real short now.... on to the next scenario.

 

Mags

 

Hmmm...

Did they shut it off in a way that it can't be turned back on? If they didn't physically destroy the dynamoes, did they get past the computer routines that BH wrote to turn them back on that you just now invented? Could the apparent lack of security be cause by the actions of BH? He is a super-mastermind, after all. And those security guards are busy trying to cope with crowd control. Amusement park security is there for normal threats, not super-ones. No one could afford to keep an army on staff.

 

Did anyone get hurt or injured while they were shutting off the power? People that might have saved if the heroes had acted directly to save them? Guilt-prone super-heroes agonize over this kind of stuff. Don't let them get away with rationalizing their CVKs with "well, more people would have died if we hadn't gone directly to the power." Superman wouldn't do that. Batman wouldn't do that. Superheroes save everybody; they don't weigh the number of deaths.

 

How about the "Let's Rumble" option on page 63? That's nine villains you can use. I can fill a whole evening with nine villains on the loose.

 

Would people calmly file out of a park being attacked by supervillains? There might be panic and riots.

 

Keith "You've got a week, man!" Curtis

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by Brandi

How's people experiences with Let's Go To the Maul been? I'm thinking of running it as a comedy one-shot, but I feel like I want to change a bunch of the stores around, or even use a slightly smaller mall...

 

That's a scenario I'd like to pull, but given the nature of the campaign I'm running (villainous, semi-mercenary)) it would be difficult to do so.

[Magmarock]

...

 

First of all: Thanks, Keith. I'll take all that into consideration. You are right, just because the power was shut off, doesn't mean it has to stay off (in my game, the heroes found 4 bodies in the power station, all stabbed to death. So one PC, Bolt, just flipped all the switches in the control center).

 

More Mayhem will ensue... I am sure of it.

 

 

Now about "Let's Go To the Maul": I just drew the center part of the mall, around the fountain, on my largest hex mat. It worked fine. When Foxbat got knocked out of the belltower, that fight took place on the same map, relatively... I just kept track of how high up they were. (Think 3-dimensional) GRAB ran off toward the department stor to the north. That was a short chase which required no extra layout.

 

My session ended with the mall-goers fleeing from the battle, the Silver Avenger arriving along with the police (although the latter all stayed outside) and with Foxbatboy and Foxbatgirl getting away. One of the heroes, Primal, stole the 'diamond' back from Foxbatgirl and tossed it toward the Silver Avenger, where it shattered at her feet. Bummer. All in all the scenario was a silly exercise. The only value of that scenario was in the character development of the PCs (one of then was an ex-member of GRAB, so that was interesting) and the added chance for our master villain to watch the heroes in action.

 

By the way, I do plan on using the mall a lot more in the future. There are just too many great plot seeds involved to ignore!

 

Mags

[Captain Liberty]

Status Report

 

After one small session using the New You plot seed from the sidebars, I have now run the Park scenario. I think its biggest problem is its size. Given Champions movement capabilities, characters spend a lot of time getting from one point of action to another. It probably would have been even more evident if I wasn't free forming things and avoiding the use of maps and miniatures.

 

The book is right, however. If you have mentalists amongst your heroes, either change out Ogre and Herculan with villains who don't suck from mind attacks or give them some protection. Ogre spent the entire fight chasing butterflies and beating up shrubs he thought were enemies until he was the last man standing, and got swarmed without getting a hit in.

 

Also, if you have some fairly fast heroes, you might think about boosting Ogre to a Speed 5, and maybe Lodestone to a Speed 6. Lodestone could have been very effective against one of the heroes, but just was on the wrong end of the DEX and SPD chart.

 

If I'd made Mirage (who I call Mysteria, the successor to Mysterio) more inclined to cut and run, or at least not get personally involved, she probably could have gotten away without a problem. Utility easily slipped away (again, distance mods to Perception rolls made it almost automatic) because he was 200 inches away from the main struggle and wrapup.

 

The heroes did find Interface's observation device, though.

 

Also, again because of the scale, the gas cloud did not catch two of the heroes because they were dealing with the locked gate when the bomb went off.

 

Next stop, the Mall!