Mystical tests of character?

[Ragitsu]

In the movie The Empire Strikes Back, Luke Skywalker enters a cave on Dagobah that quickly tests his character.

He fails.

 

 

In the video game Final Fantasy IV, a certain character climbs a mountain on a quest to become a paladin. This journey ends with them entering a sacred room at the top, and facing the dark version of themselves. If they fight it...

 

They lose. The only way to win is to continuously defend, representing the ability to cast off aggression when necessary.

 

 

So, in your games, what kind of mystical "test of character" (good character, I hope), have you used or seen?

[Evenglare]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

Eh not mine but there is always the test of high sorcery from dragonlance. It usually leaves some huge scar(physical and mental) on the person taking it. If they fail they die.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

The only problem with these is that the player can usually see them coming ... so it's hard to tell if the results are honest. If you put a pass/fail scenario in front of some players, the primary motivation becomes 'pass' (or 'win') rather than doing what the character would.

[Vulcan]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

The best way to do it is to make the test about teaching the character something about himself and/or having failure forshadow a future issue the character will have. This is the way Lucas handled Luke's test in the cave, after all.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

The best way to do it is to make the test about teaching the character something about himself and/or having failure forshadow a future issue the character will have. This is the way Lucas handled Luke's test in the cave' date=' after all.[/quote']

 

Yeah ... though part of me wonders what would have happened if Luke had realized Yoda was setting him up, and he didn't attack Vader not because he didn't want to, but just because he was aware of what the 'correct' solution was.

[Zen Archer]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

Yeah ... though part of me wonders what would have happened if Luke had realized Yoda was setting him up' date=' and he didn't attack Vader not because he didn't want to, but just because he was aware of what the 'correct' solution was.[/quote']

 

I figure if Luke was that clever, he'd have been assessed as such by Yoda, and the test would be different.

 

As for RPGs, it can be tough to pull off. I think the tendency would be for players to look for the "right answer", as opposed to the "right answer for the character".

 

The one time it was pulled on me in a Fantasy Hero game, I was playing a paladin of Moorcock's Donblas the Justice Maker, so being aggressive paid off. Looking back on it know, I had it pretty easy.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

The only problem with these is that the player can usually see them coming ... so it's hard to tell if the results are honest. If you put a pass/fail scenario in front of some players' date=' the primary motivation becomes 'pass' (or 'win') rather than doing what the character would.[/quote']

 

While this situation has the potential to be a point of player/character separation dissonance, there is nothing that says you can't have such a test be a character development moment divorced of game mechanics that rely on some element of chance.

 

In fact, I welcome a well roleplayed "ordeal" .

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

I've used the "confront your greatest fear/ regret/ guilt" testing scenario, playing on my GM knowledge of characters' past histories and/ or Psychological Limitations/Complications. These were not usually things that characters have to fight, unless the player wanted that kind of challenge. Personally I find pure roleplaying opportunities more interesting: confronting the loved one they failed to save, the consequences of the sworn oath they betrayed, being trapped in the condition that enrages or terrifies them, etc. This is particularly good if a player is ready to resolve one of their characters' plotlines, or buy off a Psych Lim -- in those circumstances they tend to really want to roleplay the situation.

[Christopher]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

I had an (superheroic)character who had such a thing "in the backstory". She was one of a hundred created for a special project (travel through time, change some things). Then they made a selection for the "right" one, because they could only send one

She wasn't the strongest, fastest, agile or smartest of the finalists. She won, because she had the strongest character.

 

 

About doing one in game:

I would only do one when the player asked for one. Propably as part of some radiation accident. Then I would discuss what the player wants, maybe down to specific scenes and sentences.

 

Winning a test of character usually means a modification of the Physchological Complications. So I would not be against loosing it to preserve the current writeup.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

I agree that having the player on board with the idea (but not precisely aware of how it will be executed) is key to its success.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

So...anyone have any in-game examples to share?

[Ragitsu]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

Ba-bump.

[Old Man]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

Not exactly fantasy, but:

 

[Christopher]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

Not exactly fantasy' date=' but:[/quote']

I personally consider Dune to be Fantasy. All the elements (Nobles, an Emperor) are there.

[Greywind]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

Yeah, like there haven't been any of those in reality.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

I personally consider Dune to be Fantasy. All the elements (Nobles' date=' an Emperor) are there.[/quote']

 

Laws of physics that are optional, magic powers, great quests, inescapable destinys...

 

OK, tests of character. In Star Trek the RPG, I used the "Lifeboat Test".

 

You and a civilian have survived a disaster in a lifeboat. Rescue is coming in 6 days. Alas, the lifeboat only has 10 person-days of air. For one to survive, the other must be sacrificed. As a trained Starfleet Officer, you are better trained/better physical shape, so you can force your decision on the civilian. So, which of you walks the airlock?

[sinanju]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

Laws of physics that are optional, magic powers, great quests, inescapable destinys...

 

OK, tests of character. In Star Trek the RPG, I used the "Lifeboat Test".

 

You and a civilian have survived a disaster in a lifeboat. Rescue is coming in 6 days. Alas, the lifeboat only has 10 person-days of air. For one to survive, the other must be sacrificed. As a trained Starfleet Officer, you are better trained/better physical shape, so you can force your decision on the civilian. So, which of you walks the airlock?

 

My Vulcan puts himself into a deep "healing trance" to stretch the available ration of air so they can both survive. Of course, while in that state, he could easily be jettisoned by a panicked (or ruthless) civilian who could, in the words of Riply in Aliens, "they he could make up any story he liked." But that level of trust in a stranger is also a test of character.

 

My doctor uses some nifty drugs from his medi-kit to affect the same result.

 

My engineer reverses the polarity of the neutron flow (i.e., tinkers with the ship's systems) to stretch the amount of air available.

 

My Captain pulls a spacesuit out of the airlock storage bay and either by wearing it, or simply bleeding the air supply into the lifeboat does the same.

 

My highly trained but non-officer nameless crewmen build a better recycling system to stretch the amount of air available. (Hey, if the Apollo 13 crew can do it using stone knives and bearskins, so can my 23rd century trained starship crewmen.)

[Old Man]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

You and a civilian have survived a disaster in a lifeboat. Rescue is coming in 6 days. Alas, the lifeboat only has 10 person-days of air. For one to survive, the other must be sacrificed. As a trained Starfleet Officer, you are better trained/better physical shape, so you can force your decision on the civilian. So, which of you walks the airlock?

 

Neither, of course. Air isn't the only consideration. So is food...

[BhelliomRahl]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

I will have to remember the life boat idea. The specific setting is not so important but the option for the player to make a choice about his survivial or anothers. Most of my players would look for away around the problem and then would probably take the action that allows their character to survive but this is not necessarily what their character would do.

 

I have used the Star Wars Cave test, in a Star Wars game I was running.

 

The Setting was the Old Republic after the story of Knights of the Old Republic 2. The players were the first Padawans of the New Order. As part of a test they were taken to a Moon. They entered a cave network leading to the ruins of an ancient civilisation. The civilisation belonged to an evolved form of Mynocks which evolved due to the fact that they started to feed on the energy of the Force specifically the Dark Side. The Mynocians physical form had long since turned to dust but their spirits wandered the ruins.

 

As each player explored they were shown visions (new realities), the visions depended on the characters back story and goals/desires. (I always get players to write about their past and future goals/desires - I usually award experience based on players working towards these goals). As the visions progressed the characters were offered ways to gain their desires quickly and easily.

 

In the end of my 6 players; 1 played very true to their character and gave up their physical form and embraced the visions entering the perceived reality forever. One other accepted the offers and was given the knowledge to accomplish his goals, however what he failed to realise was that one of the Spirits took up permanent residence within him, from that moment on it started to influence his actions and he developed new force powers similar to the Mynocians, his fall to the Dark Side had begun.

The others learnt something about their character and some came to term which psychological complications.

 

It only worked well because I knew about the characters background and goals/desires. The players themselves and that I had taken notes on how they reacted to previous choices. The players quickly grasped what I was doing and worked with me. I'm sure some of them made the choices they did because they realised what the test was and playered it as themselves not their character, this can take alot from the game.

 

As stated in earlier post and I agree, the GM and Players needed to work together and if they do so correctly the results can be fun and interesting for everyone.

[Vulcan]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

Neither' date=' of course. Air isn't the only consideration. So is food... [/quote']

 

Six days without food is completely survivable without resorting to extreme measures. Rationing 5 days of food to last six days... is routine in most undeveloped nations.

 

Likewise, going 24 hours without water isn't that big a deal in a controled cimate.

 

It's that missing 24 hours of O2 that is the issue. And even that can be dealt with.

 

The interesting test I saw on Star Trek was when Deanna was up for her command test.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

Laws of physics that are optional, magic powers, great quests, inescapable destinys...

 

OK, tests of character. In Star Trek the RPG, I used the "Lifeboat Test".

 

You and a civilian have survived a disaster in a lifeboat. Rescue is coming in 6 days. Alas, the lifeboat only has 10 person-days of air. For one to survive, the other must be sacrificed. As a trained Starfleet Officer, you are better trained/better physical shape, so you can force your decision on the civilian. So, which of you walks the airlock?

 

If you can gimmick your way around the test*, it's no longer a test. You can assume that any technique listed outside of "One of you has to take a walk" will be disallowed (Handwaved) away. This is not a test of engineering skill, or medical skill, or self control, it is a test of character.

 

*(which, given that it's Star Trek, is almost a given)

[Christopher]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

The interesting test I saw on Star Trek was when Deanna was up for her command test.

 

And in the same way the "Kobayashi Maru" is also a test of Character. There even was a (non-canon?) book about several TOS crewmembers and how they solved it:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Kobayashi_Maru

[Vulcan]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

If you can gimmick your way around the test*, it's no longer a test. You can assume that any technique listed outside of "One of you has to take a walk" will be disallowed (Handwaved) away. This is not a test of engineering skill, or medical skill, or self control, it is a test of character.

 

*(which, given that it's Star Trek, is almost a given)

 

10 person-days of air, 12 person-days til rescue? Sounds like the lifeboat is pretty well messed up. In the 20th century nuclear submarines mananged to carry over a hundred people for three MONTHS without resupplying the air.

 

But given the conditions of the test, there are still five days before the decision MUST be made. Plenty of time to explore other options. And a cantidate that didn't explore them and either take the walk or execute the civilian IMMEDIATELY, would not be a good Starfleet cantidate either way.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

10 person-days of air, 12 person-days til rescue? Sounds like the lifeboat is pretty well messed up. In the 20th century nuclear submarines mananged to carry over a hundred people for three MONTHS without resupplying the air.

 

But given the conditions of the test, there are still five days before the decision MUST be made. Plenty of time to explore other options. And a cantidate that didn't explore them and either take the walk or execute the civilian IMMEDIATELY, would not be a good Starfleet cantidate either way.

 

Well, you do have 4.5 days to make the critical decision, and you're right you must explore all the options. But the essential decision remains: Save yourself, or the civilian. That's the actual test, and perhaps I should rewrite it to make that clearer.

(The short story "The Cold Equations" covers a similar but worse, situation.)

Link to "The Cold Equations":

 

http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/13-TheBestofJimBaensUniverseCD/TheBestofJimBaensUniverseCD/The%20World%20Turned%20Upside%20Down/0743498747__19.htm

 

No moral choice in that story...

[Ndreare]

Re: Mystical tests of character?

 

I have used it on a character: In a vision of things to come the character had to decide between dying to stop the big bad or surviving by becoming a new big bad. The character failed, the player knew it would be a test and figured there is no way his character could resist being tempted to live forever, he would lie to himself and all that.

The remainder of his adventures he was trying to overcome his own darkness, because he knew that when he was tested he chose to become a vampire and live. He also decided his character would develop a huge hate on for undead as a form of self loathing.