World War Two Campaign

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Justice League The Animated Series had an episode were Vandal Savage took over Nazi Germany after having information sent to him by his future self. The Justice League went back in time to stop him. Perhaps that scenario could be used to explain how Superman started in 1938' date=' and so forth.[/quote']

 

I've been vaguely thinking along these lines as a possible way to avoid a Spear of Destiny style plot device.

 

What I've been looking at is the possibility of actually letting the PCs try to end the war, and, in fact, to some extent succeeding. They certainly turn the balance in favour of the Allies. The problem is that somebody tries to stop them....

 

When the dust settles, FDR asks them to never do that ever again.

 

The British battle fleet spent most of WW1 sitting in harbour, since Admiral Jellicoe was painfully aware that he was 'the only man on either side who could lose the war in an afternoon'. In a Golden Age game, the PCs are in this position - and FDR knows it.

[casualplayer]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

The way to keep your protagonists from single-handedly winning the way is to keep those hands busy somewhere else. Constant reminders of how valuable the PCs are to the war effort and how damaging to the war effort their deaths could be will keep them from blitzkreiging Berlin hopefully. Incorporating an object lesson character into the backstory, someone who tried and failed miserably, might be necessary.

 

Most characters should be able to beat a squad of men but not an entire army. They both can't and shouldn't try to win the war alone, because a large part of the feel of Golden Age games is the camaraderie, Us vs. Them, Together We Can Do This!

[Captain Obvious]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Most characters should be able to beat a squad of men but not an entire army. They both can't and shouldn't try to win the war alone, because a large part of the feel of Golden Age games is the camaraderie, Us vs. Them, Together We Can Do This!

 

Yes! Some of my favorite WWII Supers imagery involves the supers going into battle with regular joes right by their side. The Freedom League might turn the tide of the battle when one Allied platoon is up against two Axis platoons, but then later down the line, they'll be facing down a platoon of infantry and a Tiger, and there'll be some joes with a bazooka there to return the favor.

[Cassandra]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

In the World War Two Era, the primary threat to Crime Fighters (Those without powers) and Superheroes (Those with Powers) were normal humans. The villains had the advantages of no morality, which means they could threaten innocents unless the heroes back down. Furthermore, the mastermind would usually hide behind a mask or facade, while being part of government.

 

In the Serial "G-Men Never Forget" the villain was a mob boss who had plastic surgery and had taken the place of the Police Commissioner.

 

In a Black Condor story of the era The President had been replaced by a double as well.

 

Once the hero exposed the villain, his forces usually folded pretty quickly.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

In the World War Two Era, the primary threat to Crime Fighters (Those without powers) and Superheroes (Those with Powers) were normal humans. The villains had the advantages of no morality, which means they could threaten innocents unless the heroes back down. Furthermore, the mastermind would usually hide behind a mask or facade, while being part of government.

 

In the Serial "G-Men Never Forget" the villain was a mob boss who had plastic surgery and had taken the place of the Police Commissioner.

 

In a Black Condor story of the era The President had been replaced by a double as well.

 

Once the hero exposed the villain, his forces usually folded pretty quickly.

 

While this may be true, I can't imagine any group of Players that would be happy for their superheroes doing nothing more than playing detective in colorful costumes. They frequently needed doses of evil wizards, escaped lunatics, mad scientists and their "invincible" army of robots, apes, mind-controlled civilians, dinosaurs, or whatever (I find beaucoup utility in Mad Science!) & etc., to meet their expectations of what a superhero story is.

 

The problem is, most folks aren't as intimately familiar with that era of comics as some of us RPG geeks. They've seen and heard stories set in that era, but if you cringe at the amount of anachronism in "historical" films (Titanic and Pearl Harbor are the two that stand out in my mind), you're not one of them. They want (with some exceptions) a WWII-flavored campaign, but can become upset when you unexpectedly introduce concepts and behaviors that were considered "normal" back then. They had loads of -isms, and were proud of it. If you intend to introduce "realism", you had better discuss specifics (racism, sexism, anti-semitism, Jim Crow, etc.) or somebody could get his nose out of joint.

[Cassandra]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Pearl Harbor was painful to watch.

 

I was thinking of Campaigns more like the Republic Serials. Master villain has a plan, and Minions sent out to gather what he needs. No one said the minions can't have powers or abilities.

 

"What is real, and is that necessarily a good thing?" Raquel Welch as Myra Breckinridge

[megaplayboy]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Actually, there were real supervillains featured in at least some Golden Age/WW2 comics--Captain Marvel had a whole rogues gallery of superhumanly powerful bad guys, for example. Solomon Grundy first appeared in a DC comic in 1944. Not a huge number, but they definitely existed.

[Cassandra]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

I've got the DC Golden Age Campaign Book

 

There were many villains back in the day. Per Degaton, Wizard, Gambler, Icicle, Sportsmaster, Rag Doll, and Solomon Grundy were all active in the era. They added a Baron Blitzkrieg and Red Panzer during the 1970s.

[Cassandra]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

World War Two in a world where Per Degaton has used his time travel abilities to take over the Soviet Union, Vandal Savage rules Germany, and Lex Luthor is President of the United States.

[megaplayboy]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

My "alt history" has Hitler dying in WW1; fascism becoming ascendant in Russia, Italy, Germany, Spain, Turkey, and China; a right wing government in France making a secret deal and betraying the BEF in 1940; A Russian and Chinese attack on American and Japanese naval forces; "super soldiers" being deployed on both sides; various superweapons developed and deployed; a series of atomic exchanges leading to a ceasefire in 1950; and a long Cold War period that doesn't finally end until the mid-2000s.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

I looked at Public Domain of Super Hero wiki and here is a partial list of Nazi villians that have super powers.

Nazi Shock Gibson

Capt. Nazi

Morgana

Mekano

Rubberman

Mephisto

Sabbac

Here are some that are quasi-super powered.

Toad

Frost

Vulture

One thing to keep in mind with these sources is that a majority of villians and hero never lasted long enough to get fully fleshed out. And of course, the comics weren't wrote to our game conceptions. There seems to be the spaghetti method with all the early comics. Throw it against the wall and see what sticks.

[massey]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

I was thinking about it last night. The Allies and Axis might have a gentlemen's agreement. No assassinations. While Superman probably could fly over and capture Hitler, there's nothing preventing Captain Nazi or anyone else from doing the same thing to President Roosevelt. So in unspoken agreement, both sides avoid superpowered decapitation strikes.

 

Targeting Hitler for a non-government connected super could be difficult. How do they find out where Hitler even is today? There's not a big red arrow pointing him out from the sky. Most heroes don't even speak German. So you fly over to what you think is Germany (might be France, you don't speak either language and the map totally lied to you, there aren't big lines on the ground separating them ) and look for a short guy with a bad combover and a mustache? He'll probably be in a... government building or something. Somewhere. Hmm, this is harder than you thought.

 

That's not to say that there aren't heroes who can do it. It's easy enough to build one. But most characters probably won't have the abilities they need. How do you find where Hitler is hiding? How do you know you haven't captured a double? There are ways to do it, but do you have those powers? Hitler escaped assassination a number of times. I think it's easy enough to give him a half-dozen levels of combat luck, danger sense, and a few good hiding places. That way players who want to try to take out Der Fuhrer can have a nice adventure without the GM just saying "no you can't do that". Of course, like any supervillain, Hitler is pretty good at getting away.

[megaplayboy]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

I'd put at least one super-powered henchperson near my head of state, at least most of the time. Even if there were a gentlemen's agreement, they'd want to hedge their bets. Maybe Eva Braun is secretly Uberfraulein.

[Cassandra]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

There were a few hints that Herinetta Von Drotte in the VIPER Campaign book was really Eva Braun

[urbwar]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Also, one thing that annoys me about the retro-golden age is how rarely we see any non-German supers. One thing I'd be sure to do is make Italian and Japanese axis supers.

 

I have list of Italian supers I'm writing up (though for another system currently), one of whom is the Italian version of Captain America.

 

One idea I have is for various low-level German supers be part of the Brandenburg Brigade. Most of their powers would be suited to infiltration/espionage, which was the unit's forte for most of the war. They'd undergo regular combat training to supplement that, so most of them lacking attacks powers and such wouldn't be a disadvantage for them, unless they run into a superman type.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Iron Sky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Sky

 

Naxies in Fiction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Nazis_in_fiction

 

Films featuring Nazi occultism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Films_featuring_Nazi_occultism

 

 

Cheers

 

 

QM

[kahuna's bro]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

what about jackboot on whitehall?"

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Jackboots on Whitehall

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackboots_on_Whitehall

 

 

Cheers

 

 

QM

[SKJAM!]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Just reread the early bits of "Fist of the Blue Sky", which is set in 1935, and is a prequel to "Fist of the North Star". The main character is Yan Wang ("The KIng/God of Death"), a superhuman martial artist whose secret identity is Professor Kenshiro Kasumi, mild-mannered women's college literature teacher, (He even wears glasses!) After an attempt by Pu Yi (puppet emperor of Manchuria) to draft Yan Wang into his bodyguard corps, our hero travels to Shanghai where he almost single-handedly wipes out the evil druglord gang currently in charge of the Shanghai underworld. (The fact that this puts "honorable" gangsters back in charge is treated as a good thing, what with much of the city being under the control of foreign militaries anyhow.)

 

The last couple of chapters in the version I saw seemed to indicate that Yan Wang was going to go on to help Chinese resistance against the Japanese military invasion.

 

So fast forward some years for your campaign, and Yan Wang might be a mysterious ally when our heroes are caught behind enemy lines in China (and his Japanese nationality a shocking reveal) or perhaps when America enters the war, Yan Wang feels compelled to protect his homeland from invasion.

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

I've just finished reading every Star Spangled Kid and Stripesy story I can find. My eyes are burning.

 

I've got passable first drafts for both of them and the Star Rocket Racer, but I can't finish them just now.

 

Once I get them finished, I should be able to do the Crimson Avenger and Wing, and maybe even Green Arrow and Speedy. That latter would be particularly useful, of course, because they kept appearing into the Silver Age and beyond! I'll probably burn out before I get to Vigilante and the Shining Knight.

 

I'd love to be able to do Ma Hunkel, Johnny Thunder, the Spectre and Air Wave as well, for various mainly silly reasons.

[Zen Archer]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

The Kid and Stripesy should fall under some kind of generic "Two-Fisted American" template.

 

They'd have a few "Teamwork" knacks. So would Crimson Avenger and Wing. Vigilante might have a few rope tricks;he also packs a gun. Shining Knight would be tougher, because of the armor, sword, and horse. In many ways, they are all the same type of character.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Second Sino-Japanese_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

 

Hmmm...

 

 

QM

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

The Kid and Stripesy should fall under some kind of generic "Two-Fisted American" template.

 

They'd have a few "Teamwork" knacks. So would Crimson Avenger and Wing. Vigilante might have a few rope tricks;he also packs a gun. Shining Knight would be tougher, because of the armor, sword, and horse. In many ways, they are all the same type of character.

 

Yes. The main reason I ploughed through so many stories was to get details on the Star Rocket Racer.

 

I also discovered they had a gizmo called a "steelite", which was basically their version of the Bat-Rope. Made of light weight metal, naturally.

 

After a certain point, the Racer became less important, and more just a means of transport, with problems largely being solved with their fists.

 

Their teamwork is a particularly prominent feature. They are also very good at escaping from being tied up. It's usually Stripesy who does it, although the Kid did it in one story.

 

I can't see myself working on them more today. Hopefully tomorrow.

 

At least I'm starting to get a grip on the vehicle rules, which I've always tended to avoid. Hopefully I will be able to do Green Arrow's vehicles now, and then, who knows? The Batmobile? Wonder Woman's Invisible Plane?

 

Finally, most of the stories I found were actually Seven Soldiers of Victory stories. I noticed that the early ones tended to be solo stories occurring more or less in parallel, but that after a while the storylines tended to become more integrated, with characters working in groups of two or three. In one story they even mixed up the hero and sidekick teams, with Stripesy and Wing working together without either of their bosses!

 

This is clearly an evolution towards the integrated team stories more familiar to us today. That's interesting, because parallel solo scenarios aren't an ideal model for rpgs. I think they are possible, especially in an online game, but the amount of effort involved in continually coming up with plots that aren't hopelessly contrived probably outweighs the genre-simulation benefits. A proper genre fiend campaign, then, could start off with parallel solo scenarios, and gradually move to a more conventional model.

[Zen Archer]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Finally, most of the stories I found were actually Seven Soldiers of Victory stories. I noticed that the early ones tended to be solo stories occurring more or less in parallel, but that after a while the storylines tended to become more integrated, with characters working in groups of two or three. In one story they even mixed up the hero and sidekick teams, with Stripesy and Wing working together without either of their bosses!

 

This is clearly an evolution towards the integrated team stories more familiar to us today. That's interesting, because parallel solo scenarios aren't an ideal model for rpgs. I think they are possible, especially in an online game, but the amount of effort involved in continually coming up with plots that aren't hopelessly contrived probably outweighs the genre-simulation benefits. A proper genre fiend campaign, then, could start off with parallel solo scenarios, and gradually move to a more conventional model.

 

I've got the complete set of Seven Soldiers Archives and I enjoy them very much. I'd put several of those stories on par with the GA JSA stuff.

 

I have a hunch the move towards integrated team stories (the same thing happened with the JSA later) was down to economics than anything else. Namely, the cost of paper. Don't have any quotes at hand though.

[megaplayboy]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Well the "retro-GA" comics(Invaders, All-Star Squadron, JSA) all featured integrated team stories, reflecting the sensibility of the SA/BA they were written in. So a GM certainly has the option. They also tended to have more superhuman foes than the original GA books had.