World War Two Campaign

[Cassandra]

"Good evening, Lady and Gentleman, and all ships at sea. Flash! The Global War wages on all fronts, with reports of our fighting men and women valiantly trying to hold back the Axis tide. In Africa as Rommel threatens to seize the Suez Canal, word has it that Tarzan and Sheena, King and Queen of the Jungle, have destroyed an secret Nazi airstrip hidden in the jungle. Meanwhile on the high seas Aquaman and Sub-Mariner escort an important convoy to England against the U-Boat Menace. In the skies above Metropolis Superman, Captain Marvel, and the Human Torch prevented an experimental rockets launched from German occupied Holland from striking the city. Meanwhile in the Nation's Capital Wonder Woman and Captain America prevented the assassination of Senator's Henry Knight, with help from the mysterious Phantom Lady. On the West Coast America's sweetheart Linda Turner entertains the troops while the Black Cat and Black Condor break up a Japanese spy ring . . ."

 

The Second World Was was the most destructive in history, and the most important event of the 20th Century. Many superheroes sprung up during this time, and most of them fought the Axis on the comic book pages.

 

This thread is a discussion on what kind of campaign would take place involving the Golden Age superheroes.

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Different sets of assumptions are possible.

 

1. Are superbeings relatively common, or relatively rare? That is, are the PCs the only/main superheroes, or just part of the All-Star Squadron (or whatever)?

2. Where is the campaign set? The US enters the war later than, say, Britain, and its Home Front is less directly affected.

3. When is the campaign set? 1938 has a different feel from 1941, which is different from 1942. Or 1946, which could be kind of interesting in its own right.

4. Are the PCs based in a single city, or distributed around the country (assuming the US now)?

 

Real or fictional cities?

If fictional, what "flavour"? What "flavours" are there?

 

Let's see:

"New York" - Gotham, Metropolis etc.

"Washington DC" - unfortunately, you have to use the imaginary city of Washington itself for this one.

"Salem Mass." - where mystics hand out.

"Texas!!!" - anachronistic cowboy heroes hang out here.

"Kansas City" - slap bang in the the middle of the US. Movement powers are useful.

"College Town" - where student supers study. May also feature scientists and other scholars.

"Chicago" - another variation on the "New York" theme, but with more gangsters.

"Hollywood!" - West Coast variation on "New York", but with movie studios, Chinatown and Japanese spies rather than German ones.

 

Adventures can be global, of course. They can also occur in different historical periods, different dimensions or on different planets. Hidden Lands are relatively common too. Real world geography doesn't necessarily entirely apply either - the Libyan jungles popped up in a couple of different contexts.

 

Oh, I forgot:

5. How important is the war to the campaign? Is it the central theme, or just something that comes up occasionally?

[Zen Archer]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Well, you said "the Golden Age superheroes", so I assume you mean a campaign where the players actually use the classics.

 

In which case, I think it boils down to whether or not you want to heroes to be active on the war front or not. The difference between an All-Star Squadron or Invaders-like game. In other words, whether the players protect the home countries from invasion and spies, or whether they engage in sabotage or direct attacks on Axis forces, or possibly both. Power levels become pretty important in that case, and the GM'll need to know what kind of game he or she wants to run first.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Golden Age Champions

http://www.amazon.com/Golden-Age-Champions-Chris-Cloutier/dp/1558062122/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279854679&sr=1-3

 

Godlike

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godlike_%28role-playing_game%29

 

Justice, Inc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice,_Inc._%28role-playing_game%29

 

GURPS WWII Weird War

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/ww2/weirdwar2/

 

Brave New World: Glory Days

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13499677-glory-days

 

Pulp Hero

http://www.herogames.com/productsPulpHero.htm

 

Champions Timeline

???

 

Dark Champions Timeline

???

 

Cheers

 

 

QM

[Christopher]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Champions 6E discusses the WW2 Element of Golden Age supers.

From the p.o.v. of the US, there were different phases in the development of the war:

 

before attack on Poland 1939:

Conflict with Fachist Supers or their Spies

 

between war start and joining of the US:

some US supers go oversea to fight the nazis, because thier government isn't doing it.

 

after US join the war:

almost everyone contributes to the war effort in soem way. Some go outright to the armed forces, others just "tag along", other fight on the homewfront.

Maybe even specially military-sponsored superteams.

 

You need to determine how current superhumans are. Are they somethign totally new, or are they a common thing for at least 50 years? If so, they might be actively employed in the forces. Maybe even in special units.

This campaign has an intersting look on WW1 too end of Cold War: http://www.herocentral.net/campaignInformation.htm?newCampaignId=741922

 

Another important question is:

Home front or front lines.

Both also have effects on the tone of the campaign (total CvK does not work well on the Front lines).

 

Tone:

The moral fronts are clear. Axis - bad. Allies - good.

Morally grey parts (like the interment of all Japanese on american soil) were usually left out of the comics.

[Cassandra]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

I'm thinking of a Campaign that begins in Sept, 1939. The U.S. is neutral while England and France go to war over Poland. The Nazis have been active in the United States dealing with the superhumans who have appeared over the past year, i.e., since Superman went public. As more and more superheroes came forward the Nazis began to aline themselves with criminals and especially evil mystics in order to combat pro-allied crime fighters. The Axis goal would be two fold, one to reduced the number to potential threats, and two, gain new technology and superhumans of their own.

 

My builds in this thread will be 5th Edition, using low level superheroes built on a 150 point base with 100 points in disadvantages.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Hitler and the Spear of Longinus (Destiny) kept the Superhumans out of World War II in the DC Universe for the most part. There by respecting the sacrifice made by those who fought and those who died in the great war.

 

On October 12, 1938, not long after the German annexation of Austria, Hitler ordered the S.S. to seize The Spear of Destiny and other artifacts from Vienna. They were taken by train to Nuremberg, where they were stored in St. Katherine’s Church. The Spear of Destiny remained in St. Katherine’s until 1944, when it was moved to a specially constructed vault beneath the church, built in secret and at great expense, intended to protect it and the other stolen relics from Allied bombs. Nuremberg was captured by Allied troops in April of the following year. The vault was subsequently discovered by American Army officers.

 

The Spear of Destiny was confiscated by American forces on the afternoon of April 30, 1945. less than two hours after the The Spear of Destiny was captured by Allied Forces Hitler committed Suicide in his underground bunker in Berlin {Allegedly}.

 

In 1946 The Spear of Destiny and the rest of the Imperial Regalia were returned to Austria. Today they are once again on public display at the Hofsburg museum.

[Cassandra]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

That was the plot device, of course. But any Second World War that takes place in a universe with superheroes must be considered an alternate time line. This does not mean that the major events of the war would not happen as in ours. It does mean that there would be an additional layer of events would take place.

 

For example in 1923 the Japanese aircraft carrier Amagi was underconstruction when he was damaged beyond repair during the Tokyo earthquake. In a world full of superhumans Sumo, a japanese superhero (or villain depending on which side you are on) prevents the carrier from being damaged. The carrier takes part in the battle of Midway as a fifth aircraft carrier in the Japanese strike fleet. Fortunately the American superhero Torpedo Man manages to sink the carrier during the dive bomber attack that took place in real life.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Unless you have some Superman level hero who can come in and defeat the Axis by himself, I don't see how a WWII supers game in theater would diminish the sacrifice of the actual soldiers any more than movies like Where Eagles Dare, The Dirty Dozen, or Saving Private Ryan.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Unless you have some Superman level hero who can come in and defeat the Axis by himself' date=' I don't see how a WWII supers game in theater would diminish the sacrifice of the actual soldiers any more than movies like Where Eagles Dare, The Dirty Dozen, or Saving Private Ryan.[/quote']good point there

[Clonus]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Well I happen to be working on a project I call 101 Golden Age Superhero Story Seeds (sadly I only have about 60 so far.) One thought I did have while reading Golden Age Champions is that I would be highly insulted if the GM followed the suggestion in there of having the characters destroy the end of the Hollywoodland sign in a battle and this would somehow prove that history can be changed. Yay. We changed a number in a footnote. We're awesome and the stakes are huge.

 

If I was going to do such a campaign, I would make the stakes real. Invade Britain and have the British fighting a last ditch war to hold off the invaders in the highlands of Scotland, and players might actually start to take this war, and the need for the characters to take action seriously.

 

Also, one thing that annoys me about the retro-golden age is how rarely we see any non-German supers. One thing I'd be sure to do is make Italian and Japanese axis supers.

[Cassandra]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Phatom Lady

 

Val Char Cost

15 STR 5

20 DEX 30

18 CON 16

11 BODY 2

18 INT 8

14 EGO 8

20 PRE 10

18 COM 4

7 PD 4

5 ED 1

4 SPD 10

7 REC 0

36 END 0

28 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 98 Points

 

Cost Skills

3 Acrobatics 13-

2 AK: Opal City, Maryland 11-

2 AK: Washington, D.C. 11-

3 Breakfall 13-

3 Combat Driving [small Ground Vehicles] 13-

18 Combat Luck +9 rPD +9 rED

2 Contact: Starman 11-

3 Contortionist 13-

3 Conversation 13-

3 Deduction 13-

3 Fast Draw 13-

3 High Society 13-

1 Lang: Basic German

4 Marital Arts DC+1

4 Martial Block

4 Martial Disarm

4 Martial Dodge

4 Martial Strike

3 Martial Throw

5 Money: Well Off

5 Offensive Strike

3 Shadowing 13-

10 SL: Overall +1

3 Stealth 13-

3 Streetwise 13-

Total Skills Cost: 97 Points

 

Cost Powers

15 Multipower (30 Points) [16c] (-0), OAF: Black Light Beam (-1)12

1 u) Flash [sight] 6d6

1 u) Flash [sight] 3d6, AE 1"r (+1)

3 ES: Nightvision, OIF: Goggles (-1/2)

5 ES: RPT, OAF: Radio (-1)

3 Flash Defense (Sight) 5 Points, OIF: Goggles (-1/2)

2 Running +1

15 Running +5", 8x NCM, No END (+1/2), Only on Appropriate Terrain (-1/2), OIF: Motorcycle (-1)

10 Swinging 10"

Total Powers Cost: 55 Points

 

Total Cost: 250 Points

 

150+ Disadvantages

10 DNPC: Senator Henry Knight, Father (Useful Unaware Normal) 8-

15 Hunted: The Axis (As Powerful/NCI) 8-

20 Normal Characteristics Maxima

15 PsyL: Patriotic (Common/Strong)

15 PsyL: Protective of Innocents (Common/Strong)

10 SocL: Secret Identity [sandra Knight] (Occasionally/Major)

15 Vuln: Ambushes/Treacherous Attacks, 1 1/2x STUN (Very Common)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

 

 

Phantom Lady is really Sandra Knight, daughter of the U.S. Senator from Maryland Henry Knight. She is an olympic level athlete and uses a Black Light Beam to temporarily blind her opponents. Her cousin is Ted Knight, also known as Starman.

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

The Spear of Destiny was a Roy Thomas thing. Contemporary writers didn't seem to feel the need.

 

There was an issue where the Justice Society enlisted (All-Star Comics #11). After largely skimming over their training period, they promptly each annihilated major Axis forces, before returning to the US and focusing on the home front.

 

This made very little sense within continuity, of course, leading to Roy Thomas doing his thing with the Spear.

 

Superman trashed the Japanese military in one of the Fleischer cartoons.

 

An interesting thing to consider is the relative absence of Axis supervillains in much of the source material. The 70s/80s stuff has plenty of them, but the contemporary material has a lot fewer, and most of those are variations on the non-powered "Baron Blah blah" theme. The Red Skull is a classic example.

 

In this case, it could be possible for Allied supers to directly attack the Axis powers - but they might find themselves biting off more than they can chew.

 

Or, of course, they could find themselves facing equivalent numbers of Axis villains. That could potentially be a short, if interesting, game.

 

This still lives the home front question open. Even if supers can't win the war by themselves, why aren't they on the front line? Perhaps its because while they can't win the war, they are capable of losing it for the Allies.

[Epiphanis]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

I was in Darren Watts' playtest campaign for his upcoming new edition of Golden Age Champions. The setting has in-continuity mechanics similar to DC's Spear of Destiny plot device why supers didn't run away with the whole show. Also, a broad selection of villains, which were not just Nazis. In our playtest, Der Totenkopf, the Nazi "final boss", didn't survive the end of WWII, but his Japanese counterpart, the Iron Father, did.

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

If I was going to do such a campaign' date=' I would make the stakes real. Invade Britain and have the British fighting a last ditch war to hold off the invaders in the highlands of Scotland, and players might actually start to take this war, and the need for the characters to take action seriously. [/quote']

 

It wouldn't work if I was playing. I'd stay focussed on fighting crime, until the US entered the war. (Fighting spies and protecting merchant ships from U-boats would be an exception).

 

FWIW, I wouldn't play an Australian character in a Golden Age game. The whole "the war starts in 1939" thing tends to ruin any potential for British Empire oriented games, IMHO. Everything becomes about the war.

[Cassandra]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Many of the Crime Fighters like Spy Smasher, Phantom Lady, Sandman, Batman, Crimson Avenger, and Captain America could launch raids at strategically important sites. A raid on Berlin by allied Supers could damage Nazi Morale.

 

I'm wondering if some of the modern heroes could time travel back so they could be Retconned as to have been fighting in World War Two, as DC did with Hippolyte. Perhaps Per Degaton managed to affect the timeline as he did in the 1982 team up between the JLA/JSA/All Star Squadron (best not to use the initials there.)

[megaplayboy]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Well, you're going to have 3 basic categories of bad guys: Home front crooks(both super and non-super), Axis forces(both super and non-super), and Other(aliens, beings from other dimensions, whatever--general weirdness not otherwise classified). Fortunately, it doesn't take a lot of imagination or effort to extrapolate Axis "secret weapons" and super villains based on real-world projects and obsessions of the Axis powers(super weapons, strange advanced vehicles, eugenics and other super-soldier projects, rockets and space travel, biological warfare experiments, occultism and items of power, etc.).

 

One thing you should decide as a GM and as a group is whether the basic history/outcome will conform to the real world(i.e., Allies win in 1945, Hitler dies, Atom bomb is dropped) or whether it's open to change(longer or shorter war, Allies may or may not win). You could even have a stalemate leading to a very different Cold War Era. It's a game, so long as everyone's having fun, do whatever you want.

[assault]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

I have considered having a Superman figure intervene in the German-Polish War of 1939, and carrying on with a pulp-like timeline. As long as you declare "the present" to be in the 50s, things don't get too weird. It takes time for Mad Science to completely change the world, and there were distinct elements of continuity between the 30s and 50s even in our timeline.

 

Unfortunately, there was a tendency for Golden and Silver Age time travel to occur in round centuries, so "the future" would be in the 2040s and 2050s, rather than the 2010s. Still, the year 2000 was definitely "the future" back then.

 

Of course, you could stretch the alternative timeline into what we currently consider "the present", or the recent past, but then you are looking at moon colonies and rocket ships. And lots of robots, but apparently few computers.

 

Either way, the present day could definitely be replaced by a 40s-50s style retro-future. It's just in the first version, it's "the future" in a Legion of Superheroes type sense, rather than "the present day".

 

PS: Now I think about it, my initial thoughts about retro-futures were too conservative. The problem with them is that they can become quite dystopian.

 

For example, WW2 encouraged the breakup of the various European colonial empires. In turn, that encouraged the Civil Rights movement in the US. So, potentially, eliminating WW2 means that the Civil Rights movement doesn't happen, with all that entails. That's not a timeline I care to investigate, to put it politely, and that's why I stopped working along these lines.

 

But of course that's nonsense, isn't it? Other phenomena can have the same or similar effects! If "Superman" can prevent the war, then he can do other things too. There's no need to simply make one change in the timeline, and derive things from dubious assumptions about how things would flow from that.

 

After all, while "Captain America" would probably tend to support the status quo internationally, he wouldn't necessarily always feel the need to help crush anti-colonial movements. And he might in fact be willing to accept, and support, civil rights activism rather than going into Commie Smasher mode.

 

So changes can still happen - it's only just assumptions that would prevent them. Different assumptions can enable them.

 

A retro-future doesn't have to be a nightmare. There could even still be a 60s, hippies and all!

[Steve]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

I always thought an interesting idea for using the Champions Universe was to take existing supervillains from it and creating Golden Age versions, kind of like an Earth-2 version of the CU.

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

That was the plot device, of course. But any Second World War that takes place in a universe with superheroes must be considered an alternate time line. This does not mean that the major events of the war would not happen as in ours. It does mean that there would be an additional layer of events would take place.

 

For example in 1923 the Japanese aircraft carrier Amagi was underconstruction when he was damaged beyond repair during the Tokyo earthquake. In a world full of superhumans Sumo, a japanese superhero (or villain depending on which side you are on) prevents the carrier from being damaged. The carrier takes part in the battle of Midway as a fifth aircraft carrier in the Japanese strike fleet. Fortunately the American superhero Torpedo Man manages to sink the carrier during the dive bomber attack that took place in real life.

 

Unfortunately for the Japanese in this scenario, if the Battlecruiser Amagi was saved from damage while being converted into a aircraft carrier, then the Battleship Kaga would have been scrapped instead of being converted into a aircraft carrier, as per the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty. The faster but less armored Amagi would take the space of the Kaga at Midway, and probably suffer the same fate.

 

Internet Know it all at work.

[Christopher]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Unfortunately for the Japanese in this scenario' date=' if the Battlecruiser Amagi was saved from damage while being converted into a aircraft carrier, then the Battleship Kaga would have been scrapped instead of being converted into a aircraft carrier, as per the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty. The faster but less armored Amagi would take the space of the Kaga at Midway, and probably suffer the same fate.[/quote']

I think that is a point at wich (how Champions 6E puts it) "the interesting scenario and the actions of the heroes should outrule your knowledge of history".

[casualplayer]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

One of the most important things to do, and hardest to enforce, is make sure that the characters can't move or communicate too quickly. To be able to do 100 kph on foot was amazing, more than twice that a core concept superpower. Blowing away the fog of war with reliable long distance communication will end the war before you know it. An amazing amount of people can't imagine how slowly a world with switchboard operators and prop-driven planes moved.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Brave New World: Glory Days

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13499677-glory-days

 

Pulp Hero

http://www.herogames.com/productsPulpHero.htm

 

 

Cheers

 

 

QM

[megaplayboy]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

One of the most important things to do' date=' and hardest to enforce, is make sure that the characters can't move or communicate too quickly. To be able to do 100 kph on foot was amazing, more than twice that a core concept superpower. Blowing away the fog of war with reliable long distance communication will end the war before you know it. An amazing amount of people can't imagine how slowly a world with switchboard operators and prop-driven planes moved.[/quote']

 

I'd start by suggesting that no character be allowed to break the sound barrier. Reliable point-to-point long-distance teleportation should also be unavailable.

[Cassandra]

Re: World War Two Campaign

 

Some suggested ground rules

 

All heroes built on 250 Points, 150 Point Base and 100 Points of Disadvantages.

 

No Megascale movement for superheroes, but some vehicles may have it (Wonder Woman's Invisible Plane for example).

 

No Bulletproof Costumes without an activation roll (Bulletproof vests at the time were heavy). Combat Luck instead.