How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

[jackalope]

Hi Folks!

 

I just recently started a Star HERO campaign -- this is my first ever Star HERO campaign, but probably my sixth or seventh HERO campaign. So far everything is going pretty smoothly, except the one space combat we ran, which was a total mess. After that combat, I decided to actually read the rules for starship combat and...oy vey. Most days I love the toolbox approach of HERO System, but not today. There are too many options to choose from!

 

So I thought I'd ask the forum for feedback. Which options do you use, how do you run starship battles, etc.?

[Lucius]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

I don't have a lot of experience so I may not be the most helpful. But I do know one useful tip.

 

Try to make sure that every player has something to do. For example,

 

Captain: In overall command. "Fire tachyon torpedoes! Arm tachyon torpedoes! Load tachyon torpedoes!"

 

Science Officer/Sensor Specialist/whatever: Scanning and analyzing the enemy and environment. "They have deployed stealthed mines, Captain, 14 identified but possibly hundreds we don't detect!"

 

Engineer: Monitoring the ship and damage control. "We're trying to bring shields back online, buy us some time!"

 

Pilot/Helmsman: Manuevers and movement. "Brace for evasive manuevers!"

 

Weapons Officer: Weapons operation. "Tachyon torpedoes away! Tachyon torpedoes armed! Tachyon torpedoes loaded!"

 

Communications Officer: On Star Trek, reported to the captain on casualties and damages. Could also monitor communications of both sides. "Captain they just sent a burst transmission, they must have another ship in system. Girl with Green Hair says they're coming to cover us, I just warned them about the mines."

 

Of course, despite your best efforts some may have less to do than others.

 

Ships Surgeon: Stand by to treat casualties. "I'm bored AND scared. But that beats being up to my elbows in radiation burns I guess."

 

Security Chief: Stand by to repel boarders and/or lead boarders. "Our shields are down? Maybe if they beam aboard I get to kill someone this battle. Did I say that out loud?"

 

But you get the idea.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary: Point offense. "They just hit us with tachyon torpedoes, but if we take out their torpedo bay we can stop them before they're armed!"

[jackalope]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

That's definitely one of my goals. I have four players: The Captain (Pilot), the Tactical Officer (Guns), the Science Officer (Scans), and the Engineer (Damage Control). I want to make sure each of them has something to do.

[Nolgroth]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

Use "terrain" during the battle. During my long-term campaign, the most exciting space battle we had took place as the PCs pursued the bad guys along the hull of a space station. We also had battles that were based on the famous Wrath of Khan nebula battle. We always tried something new and interesting. Fair warning though; the players have to be interested in being actively spicing things up, not just reacting to the GM narrative.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

There have been some good discussion threads on space combat (and how to run it in Hero) on this forum. My search-fu seems to be weak, however. Maybe someone else will have better luck finding them and post some links.

 

If so, many thanks in advance.

 

If not, I'll try to re-post some of my previous comments.

[tkdguy]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

I don't care for the way HERO does starship combat either. Fortunately, I own a few starship combat games, so I can use one of those instead.

 

I started a thread about using multiple systems here. Maybe it can help you decide if that's the way you want to go.

 

Some companies offer free demo versions of their games for download. Here are a couple.

 

Starmada (Note: The ship builder file doesn't work anymore.)

 

Full Thrust Light (pdf file)

[Nolgroth]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

Hmmn. Is it the complexity of the combat rules or the actual ship design/building that throws you off (of Hero)? Just curious. I get easily frustrated at trying to build ships using the vehicle rules. Combat is not so much of a difficulty. I would like something simpler than Terran Empire ships though. Using those made for long space battles.

[Old Man]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

Hero's bigger problem is that there's no set way for characters to affect starship combat, aside from undefined skill rolls. Players need to have decisions to make in game and they need to have some idea of how likely they are to succeed.

 

If I had to run a starship game tomorrow I'd probably use the Battlestations board game and figure out how to make it work with Hero mechanics.

[Egyptoid]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

If it takes longer than a half-hour of your gaming evening, its too much.

If it involves more than 3 dice rolls per player, too long.

If you have to fill out more than a 3x5 card worth of data, too complicated.

 

Unless players want a star-ship simulation heavy game, avoid things like the above.

[tkdguy]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

I, on the other hand, am okay with all that, if the session requires a major battle. My players often enjoy war gaming than rps, so it's easier to get them to play out the combat. But YMMV. If starship combat doesn't play a significant part of the campaign, it's usually better to gloss over it and keep the story moving.

[Escafarc]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

Didn't the old FASA Star Trek have rules for PCs in starship combat where they each had different things to do. I sort of remember they had mock-ups of different control panels.

[tkdguy]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

There was an option to do that, although my group never used it (not enough players).

[jackalope]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

Is it the complexity of the combat rules...

 

It's not the complexity that is an issue (I wouldn't play HERO if complex rules were something I found objectionable!), it's the wealth of options the book gives. Star HERO doesn't present a set of rules for starship combats, it presents a wide array of different optional rules that work towards different objectives, and I'm not sure how to pick the best options. I was hoping to get feedback on people's actual play results of the different options, but it sounds like most people either don't deal with starship combat or use a different rules system.

[tkdguy]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

Try or discuss the options with the players and see which ones they like best. That may be the best way to resolve it.

[Nolgroth]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

I actually used the full on Terran Empire defined space combat. We did use a multiple role vessel so that there was a pilot, sensors/navigation, weapon systems and engineer all doing their thing to make the ship work more efficiently in combat. What we (as a group) discovered;

• Between two ships of roughly equal DC vs DEF, battles could take a long time.
  
• It was very dramatic to start with, but using Starship Hit Locations could make all the difference in the world. ("OK the shields are down, target their engines/weapon systems/shield generators.)
  
• Mixing it up with boarding actions could be really fun.
  
• As I said earlier, use space terrain like larger ships, stations, asteroids/small planetoids, or nebula. It broke up the repetitive "lock on and fire lasers" with every passing phase syndrome.
  

 

If I were to go back and do it again, I would probably try to simplify the ship stats a little. At least for combat, you don't need to know how much the ship can carry. So (and this is all off-hand) I would probably cut the stats down to;

OCV

DCV

DEX

SPD

Thrust

Weapon System 1 (OCV Mod, Range (in adjusted inches), Damage [mods] (3d6K [AP, AF, etc])

Weapon System 2

etc

Shields (defined as Barrier Def [body]

Armor (defined as Resistant Defense)

 

The stats would all start at 0 and require a point buy from there.

 

I would still use the build rules for Size and Str, but those would become Tertiary notes about how big, how much cargo, blah blah blah. Figure in the DCV penalty (from size) and go from there.

 

Hmmn. Now I want to test this idea out. Guess I'm going to have to start organizing a game soon. Maybe after I finish moving.

[jackalope]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

As I said earlier' date=' use space terrain like larger ships, stations, asteroids/small planetoids, or nebula. It broke up the repetitive "lock on and fire lasers" with every passing phase syndrome.[/quote']

 

I build a lot of terrain for wargames, and I was already planning on building some scale planetoids, asteroid fields, and the like.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions!

[Nolgroth]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

I build a lot of terrain for wargames, and I was already planning on building some scale planetoids, asteroid fields, and the like.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Wow. That's some dedication. I used MapTools and lots of descriptive text.

[tkdguy]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

I use dice for asteroids myself.

[jackalope]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

Wow. That's some dedication. I used MapTools and lots of descriptive text.

 

I think of it more as Hobby Synergy.

[tkdguy]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

There are some stores that sell asteroid and planet miniatures for starship combat. That said, making your own terrain is more fun, and probably a lot cheaper. I'm hopeless at building stuff, so I only make stuff with the most basic designs.

[dmjalund]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

I actually used the full on Terran Empire defined space combat. We did use a multiple role vessel so that there was a pilot, sensors/navigation, weapon systems and engineer all doing their thing to make the ship work more efficiently in combat. What we (as a group) discovered;

• Between two ships of roughly equal DC vs DEF, battles could take a long time.
  
• It was very dramatic to start with, but using Starship Hit Locations could make all the difference in the world. ("OK the shields are down, target their engines/weapon systems/shield generators.)
  
• Mixing it up with boarding actions could be really fun.
  
• As I said earlier, use space terrain like larger ships, stations, asteroids/small planetoids, or nebula. It broke up the repetitive "lock on and fire lasers" with every passing phase syndrome.
  

 

If I were to go back and do it again, I would probably try to simplify the ship stats a little. At least for combat, you don't need to know how much the ship can carry. So (and this is all off-hand) I would probably cut the stats down to;

OCV

DCV

DEX

SPD

Thrust

Weapon System 1 (OCV Mod, Range (in adjusted inches), Damage [mods] (3d6K [AP, AF, etc])

Weapon System 2

etc

Shields (defined as Barrier Def [body]

Armor (defined as Resistant Defense)

 

The stats would all start at 0 and require a point buy from there.

 

I would still use the build rules for Size and Str, but those would become Tertiary notes about how big, how much cargo, blah blah blah. Figure in the DCV penalty (from size) and go from there.

 

Hmmn. Now I want to test this idea out. Guess I'm going to have to start organizing a game soon. Maybe after I finish moving.

Dont forget bonuses to opponent's OCV that represent large size

 

Also, the environment which define a battle is often related to the reason behind the battle. Space is a lot larger than an ocean, so there is basically zero chance that ships wil accidently encounter each other in deep space.

[Cancer]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

Are you planning on 2-d or 3-d battles?

[jackalope]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

2D -- trying to manage a 3D battle just seems like it would be a needless hassle.

[GoldenAge]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

I don't have a lot of experience so I may not be the most helpful. But I do know one useful tip.

 

Try to make sure that every player has something to do. For example,

 

Captain: In overall command. "Fire tachyon torpedoes! Arm tachyon torpedoes! Load tachyon torpedoes!"

 

Science Officer/Sensor Specialist/whatever: Scanning and analyzing the enemy and environment. "They have deployed stealthed mines, Captain, 14 identified but possibly hundreds we don't detect!"

 

Engineer: Monitoring the ship and damage control. "We're trying to bring shields back online, buy us some time!"

 

Pilot/Helmsman: Manuevers and movement. "Brace for evasive manuevers!"

 

Weapons Officer: Weapons operation. "Tachyon torpedoes away! Tachyon torpedoes armed! Tachyon torpedoes loaded!"

 

Communications Officer: On Star Trek, reported to the captain on casualties and damages. Could also monitor communications of both sides. "Captain they just sent a burst transmission, they must have another ship in system. Girl with Green Hair says they're coming to cover us, I just warned them about the mines."

 

Of course, despite your best efforts some may have less to do than others.

 

Ships Surgeon: Stand by to treat casualties. "I'm bored AND scared. But that beats being up to my elbows in radiation burns I guess."

 

Security Chief: Stand by to repel boarders and/or lead boarders. "Our shields are down? Maybe if they beam aboard I get to kill someone this battle. Did I say that out loud?"

 

But you get the idea.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary: Point offense. "They just hit us with tachyon torpedoes, but if we take out their torpedo bay we can stop them before they're armed!"

I totally agree. We handle it this way...

 

Engineering: The Engineer is in total charge of END distribution for ships operations/weapons and responsible for maintenance of ship/weapons/repairs - at first this may appear boring, but it can be a real handful to run a ship like a Multipower. Hard power distribution decisions have to be made all the time. There's also the aspect of pushing. - The Engineer is ALWAYS busy and the roleplaying (as folks scream for more power where there isn't any) can be epic.

(Especially when he suddenly cuts Life Support to get a little more Plasma into that last torpedo "WHAT???")

 

Communications: Fighting the ECM/ECCM battle within the battle. The Communications officer wages the electronic war within the war. His success (or failure) could mean the difference between life or death. Beyond the tasks of scanning the enemy, looking up critical data on their race and technology. He's also the chief System's Operation guy, constantly trying to hack the systems of his opponents.

 

Helm: Every ship needs a good pilot - but a great pilot can save the day! We utilize SHIP-JITSU (Piloting Maneuvers by Ben Seeman found in Digital Hero #19) which basically allows the pilot to create a piloting martial art.

Example:

Maneuver Phs Pts OCV DCV Str Roll OtherSweet Lock 1/2 4 +4 -2 — -2 —

Shrug 1/2 5 +0 +4 — -4 Dodge, Abort

Strafe Run 1 4 +3 +0 — -5 FMove

Tractor Lock 1/2 5 +4 -2 +10 -3

Button Hook 1/2 4 +2 — — -3

 

Navigation: Our navigator is as important in OOC moments as in combat. His rolls can knock hours, days or even weeks off long journeys. His success could mean the difference between arriving in the nick of time or total failure. In combat his course-plotting aids the Helmsman (complimentary Skill Rolls) in open space. But he really shines when combat occures near gravity wells (planets/stars/black holes), asteroid fields or any number of other cosmic anomalies. When that happens he can negate their negative effects on the Helm and Weapons as well as utilize the "terrain" against our opponents! He's also looking out for mines... damn mines!!!

 

Weapons: SHOOOOOT!!! The Weapons/Security Officer shoots the guns, fires and manages tracking weapons like missiles and torpedoes. He's a busy guy. On our ship the Weapons is also the de facto Security officer. So he must also be weary of hostile incursions and manage any offensive assaults by our marines. He's also responsible for all defensive technologies such as shields and ablative armor.

 

Doctor: We utilize a hit location chart for damage allocation. Someone's ALWAYS getting hurt in battle. The Doctor also spends time trying to analyze any biological information found by the Communications officer that may be useful.

 

Lastly...

 

The Captain: If the Captain is worth his salt he's chosen a competent crew that he trusts to do their jobs. However, he's the rudder of the ship. He makes things happen. But sometimes, he's not the fastest or most dexterous person on the bridge...

 

We run ship combat just like a normal combat. People (or computers/ships/drones) go on their SPEED and DEX. So often the bridge crew HOLDS their actions until the Captain goes (issuing commands/orders/expectations/requesting options/etc.). The captain's main skill on a ship is TACTICS. In addition to running the ship he get's a 2 rolls... 1 Tactics roll (OPPOSED by the enemy's Captain) and one skill roll of his choice. If he wins the Tactics roll-off he allocates a +1, +2 or +3 to all Bridge Crew rolls (depending on his level of success) and then he can utilize his second Half-Action to focus on one of his other skills (maybe he'll be assisting with Weapons fire, or perhaps he knows a thing or two about computers and will help the Communication Officer hack the attacking ships defense systems to bring down their shields, etc.)

 

When a crew member deems it necessary to go before the Captain (assume the Weapons Officer has a higher DEX and MUST fire NOW) than he can go on his DEX. However, he is NOT eligible for any bonuses that the Captains infinite wisdom (Tactics/skill roll) would have conveyed. He's on his own - this can sometimes lead to serious problems.

 

All in all, the game is a wild ride of roleplaying full of the issuing of orders, replied suggestions, requests for MORE ENERGY and the inevitable Engineer who bellows "I'm giving her all she's got!!!"

 

This all happening while you're being shot to pieces!!! YAY!!!!!

Note: Many of these rolls have several different responsibilities that could be broken down into multiple bridge crew rolls. Example: Weapons becomes Weapons and Security; Communications becomes Communications, Systems Operation and Science, etc.

[Alcamtar]

Re: How To Run Interesting Starship Battles

 

Wow Goldenage, that sounds awesome! We've been using Full Thrust but this makes me want to use Hero...