Attack with DCV Penalty, then Abort (How to stop this?)

[TheRealDeal]

I am playing a HERO game as the GM from a 4E game we left off of. One issue I wanted to see if any of you could offer me help on is the issue in my subject, where an attack power with a DCV penalty is used (usually on a segment where no one else has a phase) then the next time the character is attacked (in the next segment say) they Abort and poof, no more penalty.

 

Aside from the HERO etiquette which I already know and so do my players for the most part, is there any simple way to deal with this mechanically or with a metarule that any of you may use or have tried. I hope it will not be a problem, but I wanted to have a fallback just in case.

 

My current idea is to bring in a sort of Opportunity Attack concept from my d20 side. We are testing it now, but it is basically a metarule that says anyone can use a Melee Attack Power (single target only) to use as an Abort to an Attack if a foe within Reach (that is defined as a foe you could attack with that Melee Power from where you are) uses any Attack action that imposes a DCV penalty on themselves. Your Abort happens after they finish the use of the Power. This seems to make using attack powers with severe penalties something you think twice about when you are within reach of foes, as it effectively allows anyone in reach to take an action on your same segment (thus you cannot Abort to defense) and smack you at your lower DCV.

 

Of course doing this makes that foe a bit vulnerable as well since they cannot then Abort to a defense themselves if needed until their aborted phase clears. Do you think this is too much? Anyone see any potential issue here? We have just started to try this (starting this Friday). Thanks for any input.

 

Larry

[bigbywolfe]

Aborting burns your next action. If every time you use your big attack you have to Abort your next Phase you are only getting to really use 1/2 of your actions. Seems like a big enough penalty to me.

[Beast]

Just have a sniper waiting hidden braced and set to either get them while they are waiting or just after the big attack

[Hyper-Man]

From 6e2 page 21:

 

When determining the validity of a proposed Abort, the GM should be sure to allow characters the benefits of the rule provided they don’t attempt to unfairly exploit it. For example, if a character uses Noncombat Movement to make a Half Move, Holds his remaining Half Phase Action, and then wants to Abort his Half Phase to Dodge, the GM probably shouldn’t let him do it. Ordinarily Aborting a Half Phase is perfectly fine, but in this case the character deliberately subjected himself to a ½ DCV penalty for Noncombat Movement so he could move further than usual. Having made that decision he has to live with the consequences of his actions and can’t Abort to avoid them. He could Abort to, for example, activate his Resistant Protection, but not to “reset†his DCV.

[Hyper-Man]

From 6e2 page 21:

 

When determining the validity of a proposed Abort, the GM should be sure to allow characters the benefits of the rule provided they don’t attempt to unfairly exploit it. For example, if a character uses Noncombat Movement to make a Half Move, Holds his remaining Half Phase Action, and then wants to Abort his Half Phase to Dodge, the GM probably shouldn’t let him do it. Ordinarily Aborting a Half Phase is perfectly fine, but in this case the character deliberately subjected himself to a ½ DCV penalty for Noncombat Movement so he could move further than usual. Having made that decision he has to live with the consequences of his actions and can’t Abort to avoid them. He could Abort to, for example, activate his Resistant Protection, but not to “reset†his DCV.

 

And from the Hero System online FAQ:

http://www.herogames.com/rulesFAQ.htm?ruleset=HERO+System+Sixth+Edition&section=&keywords=abort&dateString=

 

Q:

If a character’s suffering a DCV penalty based on a previous action, when he Aborts to Block, Dodge, or the like, does that remove the DCV penalty?

 

A:

That’s up to the GM. As noted on 6E2 21, final paragraph right column, allowing characters to Abort to eliminate DCV penalties they’ve deliberately subjected themselves to to obtain some benefit (the example given being moving at Noncombat speeds) generally shouldn’t be allowed. However, if the GM chooses to allow a character to Abort to an action that would eliminate an existing DCV penalty (such as to Dodge or Block), the “resetting†of DCV happens immediately when the Abort takes place. Otherwise the standard rule about when a penalty disappears applies.

 

[Lucius]

Has anyone tried letting the modifiers stack? - "Okay, you can abort to Dodge and add 3 to DCV, then cut DCV in half because you just moved Noncombat" or "Okay, add 3 for the Dodge but take away 5 for the Haymaker."

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Abort to palindromedary

[TheRealDeal]

Stacking is how it would be done in d20, but the problem with that in HERO is that is pretty much makes defensive aborts a worthless option in that case due to the bell curve scale HERO works at. In general a +/- 3-4 difference between OCV vs. DCV is about the really workable range you want to deal with. So if your DCV is say -5 (Haymaker), the incentive to Dodge is to not only get a +3 but also eliminate all penalties as well, it makes it a good enough option to justify giving up your next action for. If all you get is the +3 stacked, then in many cases it would not be a good enough option to justify losing your whole next phase for. I mean -5 vs. -2 DCV (-5 +3 Dodge) is really not good enough IMO to justify giving up my next action. I would rather just accept I will be hit and then use my next action to deal with it, rather than make the -5 a -2 and realize I will still probably get hit (only say an 80% chance to hit me with my -2 vs. maybe a 97% with my -5, so, it is really not worth the loss of an action). It is even worse with the 1/2 DCV, which would cut my +3 in half, adding a mere +2 say to an already gimped 1/2 DCV, so again, why bother.

 

It also does not address the Block option or Dive for Cover option, even if the DCV stacked (which is not a good idea as it just gimps Dodge as an option) Block does not care about DCV but about OCV, and Dive just cares about a high DEX.

 

I think the way HERO works it is fine and makes for a solid system overall, replacing DCV effects with the new Action DCV effect is the way it should be IMO, it is just the tricky interaction of these things with the Abort mechanic that runs into this issue.

 

I have toyed with metarules that limit when you can Abort if you purposefully use an Action/Maneuver that imposes a DCV penalty. I first thought of this idea:

 

Abort Limit Idea 1: If you want to Abort, and you are suffering from a DCV penalty you Imposed on yourself, you must make a DEX check with a penalty equal to the DCV penalty or you cannot Abort in that Segment (make the check again each new Segment you want to Abort in, until you finally make it, or your phase shows up). A 1/2 DCV would require you to make a Critical DEX check success (get 1/2 or less than what was needed).

 

The above idea would make it so you would know you are making yourself more vulnerable by imposing a DCV penalty on yourself. Once the DCV clears (when your next phase shows up, or you successfully Abort) this need to make DEX checks to Abort goes away of course. The potential problem is that is rewards high DEX PCs perhaps too much (maybe it is fine this way) and lets them still potentially ignore this due to their high DEX check (maybe not for 1/2 DCV but for small penalties it would), and it requires extra checks which I like to avoid when possible. It does help to simulate that if you take an action that imposes a DCV penalty, you are overextending yourself and thus less able to mount a defense (Abort), which I do like.

 

The default HERO rule is of course to have the GM decide if an Abort is allowed, and so all these attempts are just a way to find a system that codifies some metarule that allows the GM to not have to make this call or make it in a more consistent way. Even with such a rule the GM can always override it if needed. I tend to go with now a general mental rule of thumb that says you cannot Abort if you impose a DCV penalty on yourself against attacks of "minions" or lesser foes, but only against attacks of Major foes like the BBEG. I also may look at the Complications and say you cannot Abort if you impose a DCV penalty on yourself against any attack by a foe from your Hunted Complication, simulating the effect that they know your moves and weaknesses perhaps better than others and so know how to attack you when you are vulnerable.

 

Larry (and this one's for you Lucius)

 

MetaRule 0: You cannot Abort against any attack made by a palindromedary

[Ockham's Spoon]

As Hyperman noted, this is a GM call, so it is somewhat situation dependent; certainly the NCM half-move then Abort to Dodge is, well, dodgy. But I wouldn't necessarily ban it out of hand. For instance, if a speedster character performs a Sweep maneuver on a group of thugs and then Aborts to Block, is he being abusive or just playing the character to conception?

 

As for Aborting to an Attack of Opportunity, that sounds reasonable as long as "Opportunity" is well defined. Otherwise there will be a strong temptation to Abort to an attack in an attempt to get in an extra hit that will put the opponent down before they can retaliate.

[psyber624]

I never understood that quote from the rules. By RAW "aborting" to your held half action wouldn't reset your DCV anyway, your DCV only resets "at the start of your next phase". Aborting to use a held half phase still counts as part of the same phase in all respects, you don't get to "reset" penalties, you can't reassign any assigned CV's, you can't change the allocations of MPs/VPPs if you did so in the first half, etc. Specifically "reseting" your DCV is not a function of Aborting at all, it is a function of the fact that you have entered a new phase, you just did it earlier than normal.

 

As for aborting to a whole new phase to reset the penalty as a GM I would allow it in most cases. Giving up an entire phase to defend yourself is penalty enough and removing the ability to do that can be punishing to high spd/high DCV characters who rely on their DCV to survive. Remember that there is nothing that "halves" DEF like there is for DCV so if you remove the ability to abort for that you are basically saying it is just fine for Bricks to use penalty maneuvers (as they generally don't rely on their DCV anyways) but High DCV characters can't ever afford to use them. (This is also one of the reasons Bricks tend to be slower than other archetypes, they don't need to abort to survive attacks so they need fewer phases per turn to be just as effective).

[JasonPacker]

I think I have to agree with BigbyWolf on this one. If you spend half of your actions recovering from your other actions, you're paying a pretty steep price for them. And if you do so by having a really high SPD, you've really paid a high price for it. That, paired with the prohibition against aborting to an action in the same segment you've already acted, seems like it's fair to me.

[bigbywolfe]

I never understood that quote from the rules. By RAW "aborting" to your held half action wouldn't reset your DCV anyway' date=' your DCV only resets "at the start of your next phase". Aborting to use a held half phase still counts as part of the same phase in all respects, you don't get to "reset" penalties, you can't reassign any assigned CV's, you can't change the allocations of MPs/VPPs if you did so in the first half, etc. Specifically "reseting" your DCV is not a function of Aborting at all, it is a function of the fact that you have entered a new phase, you just did it earlier than normal.[/quote']

 

​I'm not sure what's not to get. It's explicitly stating that you can't "reset" your DCV after intentionally submitting yourself to a penalty. There are examples of when an Abort would reset your DCV, like if a GM allowed you to Abort to get to your feet you would no longer be suffering the DCV penalty of being Prone. If you do a Maneuver that halves your DCV and then abort to Dodge a Phase or 2 later you no longer suffer the DCV Penalty because you are no longer doing that Maneuver, you are now Dodging (which is a Maneuver in and of itself). I could see a lot of players arguing that DCV Penalties from Powers or Movement would work the same way, even within the same Phase, which is why that argument is nipped in the bud by an explicit ruling.

[Tasha]

From 6e2 page 21:

 

When determining the validity of a proposed Abort, the GM should be sure to allow characters the benefits of the rule provided they don’t attempt to unfairly exploit it. For example, if a character uses Noncombat Movement to make a Half Move, Holds his remaining Half Phase Action, and then wants to Abort his Half Phase to Dodge, the GM probably shouldn’t let him do it. Ordinarily Aborting a Half Phase is perfectly fine, but in this case the character deliberately subjected himself to a ½ DCV penalty for Noncombat Movement so he could move further than usual. Having made that decision he has to live with the consequences of his actions and can’t Abort to avoid them. He could Abort to, for example, activate his Resistant Protection, but not to “reset†his DCV.

I think that it would be technically taking their held action and not really aborting. Either way I would allow the dodge, but impose the 1/2 DCV mod from his action to the whole thing. I wouldn't allow it to reset the DCV to full + Dodge.

[bigbywolfe]

From 6e2 page 21:

 

When determining the validity of a proposed Abort, the GM should be sure to allow characters the benefits of the rule provided they don’t attempt to unfairly exploit it. For example, if a character uses Noncombat Movement to make a Half Move, Holds his remaining Half Phase Action, and then wants to Abort his Half Phase to Dodge, the GM probably shouldn’t let him do it. Ordinarily Aborting a Half Phase is perfectly fine, but in this case the character deliberately subjected himself to a ½ DCV penalty for Noncombat Movement so he could move further than usual. Having made that decision he has to live with the consequences of his actions and can’t Abort to avoid them. He could Abort to, for example, activate his Resistant Protection, but not to “reset†his DCV.

It is an Abort because they get to automatically go first and get the defensive benefits with no DEX roll off. If they were just using their held action they would have to roll to interrupt.

[Tasha]

I never understood that quote from the rules. By RAW "aborting" to your held half action wouldn't reset your DCV anyway, your DCV only resets "at the start of your next phase". Aborting to use a held half phase still counts as part of the same phase in all respects, you don't get to "reset" penalties, you can't reassign any assigned CV's, you can't change the allocations of MPs/VPPs if you did so in the first half, etc. Specifically "reseting" your DCV is not a function of Aborting at all, it is a function of the fact that you have entered a new phase, you just did it earlier than normal.

 

As for aborting to a whole new phase to reset the penalty as a GM I would allow it in most cases. Giving up an entire phase to defend yourself is penalty enough and removing the ability to do that can be punishing to high spd/high DCV characters who rely on their DCV to survive. Remember that there is nothing that "halves" DEF like there is for DCV so if you remove the ability to abort for that you are basically saying it is just fine for Bricks to use penalty maneuvers (as they generally don't rely on their DCV anyways) but High DCV characters can't ever afford to use them. (This is also one of the reasons Bricks tend to be slower than other archetypes, they don't need to abort to survive attacks so they need fewer phases per turn to be just as effective).

 

Aborting is starting a new phase just early. It DOES allow for the reallocation of Skill levels and technically should allow for the reset of CV penalties. You are giving up your next phase to do whatever you are doing during the abort phase. If you like I CAN look up the text in 5.x and 6e that spells this out.

[TheRealDeal]

I think I have to agree with BigbyWolf on this one. If you spend half of your actions recovering from your other actions, you're paying a pretty steep price for them. And if you do so by having a really high SPD, you've really paid a high price for it. That, paired with the prohibition against aborting to an action in the same segment you've already acted, seems like it's fair to me.

This is generally true in concept, but there are specific cases where it breaks down. For example, in my game now, a lower point (150 point) game, the PCs are kept at SPD 2-3 and I allow them to take a single +1 SPD but with a limit, like Only to Abort or Only to Defend. It is such a case as this, the PC using a powerful attack, like MultiAttack (which drops your DCV to 1/2) to put some hurt on the field, and then the next segment use Abort with their +1 SPD Only to Abort action.

 

I have not run into a problem yet, but I am trying to use foresight (without paying points for it) to have some way to deal with this potential issue if it should come up, since my players now are new to HERO (from 4E D&D) and so I suspect things like this will come up eventually.

 

Coming from the d20 world, you bring some baggage with you, like the need for House Rules, since many of the d20 elements are a bit off or outright broken. HERO may not need them (or not as much maybe) but my players are used to having the rules laid out as much as possible in advance and less used to having the GM make calls on the spot too often, which HERO tends to more than d20. They will have to get used to the paradigm shift, but when possible, I try to lay out the way I will interpret the rules for them as much in advance as I can, so they can know what to expect. Thus, I want to formulate a good response to something like the situation of this Thread ahead of time with input from the Forum so I can have it ready if needed.

[bigbywolfe]

I never understood that quote from the rules. By RAW "aborting" to your held half action wouldn't reset your DCV anyway, your DCV only resets "at the start of your next phase". Aborting to use a held half phase still counts as part of the same phase in all respects, you don't get to "reset" penalties, you can't reassign any assigned CV's, you can't change the allocations of MPs/VPPs if you did so in the first half, etc. Specifically "reseting" your DCV is not a function of Aborting at all, it is a function of the fact that you have entered a new phase, you just did it earlier than normal.

 

As for aborting to a whole new phase to reset the penalty as a GM I would allow it in most cases. Giving up an entire phase to defend yourself is penalty enough and removing the ability to do that can be punishing to high spd/high DCV characters who rely on their DCV to survive. Remember that there is nothing that "halves" DEF like there is for DCV so if you remove the ability to abort for that you are basically saying it is just fine for Bricks to use penalty maneuvers (as they generally don't rely on their DCV anyways) but High DCV characters can't ever afford to use them. (This is also one of the reasons Bricks tend to be slower than other archetypes, they don't need to abort to survive attacks so they need fewer phases per turn to be just as effective).

 

Aborting is starting a new phase just early. It DOES allow for the reallocation of Skill levels and technically should allow for the reset of CV penalties. You are giving up your next phase to do whatever you are doing during the abort phase. If you like I CAN look up the text in 5.x and 6e that spells this out.

Not if, as you pointed out, you are Aborting the second half of you current Phase.

[IndianaJoe3]

I never understood that quote from the rules. By RAW "aborting" to your held half action wouldn't reset your DCV anyway, your DCV only resets "at the start of your next phase". Aborting to use a held half phase still counts as part of the same phase in all respects, you don't get to "reset" penalties, you can't reassign any assigned CV's, you can't change the allocations of MPs/VPPs if you did so in the first half, etc. Specifically "reseting" your DCV is not a function of Aborting at all, it is a function of the fact that you have entered a new phase, you just did it earlier than normal.

 

As for aborting to a whole new phase to reset the penalty as a GM I would allow it in most cases. Giving up an entire phase to defend yourself is penalty enough and removing the ability to do that can be punishing to high spd/high DCV characters who rely on their DCV to survive. Remember that there is nothing that "halves" DEF like there is for DCV so if you remove the ability to abort for that you are basically saying it is just fine for Bricks to use penalty maneuvers (as they generally don't rely on their DCV anyways) but High DCV characters can't ever afford to use them. (This is also one of the reasons Bricks tend to be slower than other archetypes, they don't need to abort to survive attacks so they need fewer phases per turn to be just as effective).

 

Aborting is starting a new phase just early. It DOES allow for the reallocation of Skill levels and technically should allow for the reset of CV penalties. You are giving up your next phase to do whatever you are doing during the abort phase. If you like I CAN look up the text in 5.x and 6e that spells this out.

How can you Abort if you still have a half-phase unused?

[psyber624]

I never understood that quote from the rules. By RAW "aborting" to your held half action wouldn't reset your DCV anyway, your DCV only resets "at the start of your next phase". Aborting to use a held half phase still counts as part of the same phase in all respects, you don't get to "reset" penalties, you can't reassign any assigned CV's, you can't change the allocations of MPs/VPPs if you did so in the first half, etc. Specifically "reseting" your DCV is not a function of Aborting at all, it is a function of the fact that you have entered a new phase, you just did it earlier than normal.

 

As for aborting to a whole new phase to reset the penalty as a GM I would allow it in most cases. Giving up an entire phase to defend yourself is penalty enough and removing the ability to do that can be punishing to high spd/high DCV characters who rely on their DCV to survive. Remember that there is nothing that "halves" DEF like there is for DCV so if you remove the ability to abort for that you are basically saying it is just fine for Bricks to use penalty maneuvers (as they generally don't rely on their DCV anyways) but High DCV characters can't ever afford to use them. (This is also one of the reasons Bricks tend to be slower than other archetypes, they don't need to abort to survive attacks so they need fewer phases per turn to be just as effective).

 

Aborting is starting a new phase just early. It DOES allow for the reallocation of Skill levels and technically should allow for the reset of CV penalties. You are giving up your next phase to do whatever you are doing during the abort phase. If you like I CAN look up the text in 5.x and 6e that spells this out.

You are allowed to take a half phase action and then hold the 2nd half of your phase. If you are holding your 2nd half of a phase you are allowed to abort with it in order to take the 2nd action BEFORE someone elses declared action just like with any other held action.

 

As an example. My character might make a half move to get behind cover, then hold his other action waiting for someone to appear (around a corner, sticking their head out from their cover, whatever). The next thing that happens is my opponent, behind cover, lobs a grenade at my cover. By the rules I could abort to my held half phase to take a "Dive for Cover" action to try and get out of the blast radius of the grenade. That is an example of the situation the quote from the book is talking about, but it is saying that if I made a NCM move (for instance) I could not then abort to "Dodge" and try and loose the 1/2 DCV penalty. I was merely stating that even if I did abort to Dodge (or any other maneuver) nothing about that would have reset my DCV ANYWAY so no ruling is needed. Aborting doesn't remove/reset benefits/penalties, starting a new phase does (so of course aborting to a new phase will, but not aborting to a held half phase).

[bigbywolfe]

I never understood that quote from the rules. By RAW "aborting" to your held half action wouldn't reset your DCV anyway, your DCV only resets "at the start of your next phase". Aborting to use a held half phase still counts as part of the same phase in all respects, you don't get to "reset" penalties, you can't reassign any assigned CV's, you can't change the allocations of MPs/VPPs if you did so in the first half, etc. Specifically "reseting" your DCV is not a function of Aborting at all, it is a function of the fact that you have entered a new phase, you just did it earlier than normal.

 

As for aborting to a whole new phase to reset the penalty as a GM I would allow it in most cases. Giving up an entire phase to defend yourself is penalty enough and removing the ability to do that can be punishing to high spd/high DCV characters who rely on their DCV to survive. Remember that there is nothing that "halves" DEF like there is for DCV so if you remove the ability to abort for that you are basically saying it is just fine for Bricks to use penalty maneuvers (as they generally don't rely on their DCV anyways) but High DCV characters can't ever afford to use them. (This is also one of the reasons Bricks tend to be slower than other archetypes, they don't need to abort to survive attacks so they need fewer phases per turn to be just as effective).

 

Aborting is starting a new phase just early. It DOES allow for the reallocation of Skill levels and technically should allow for the reset of CV penalties. You are giving up your next phase to do whatever you are doing during the abort phase. If you like I CAN look up the text in 5.x and 6e that spells this out.

psyber, it's not Aborting if you use your held action "BEFORE" they declare an action, that's just using your held action. If they declare their action and you try to do something else first like attack them that is not an Abort, it takes a DEX roll off and is still just USING your Held 1/2 Phase. Only if you are acting Defensively AFTER the opponent declares their action (like in your example of DfC from a grenade, which is obviously already thrown, thus the action was declared) are you Aborting and not required to have a DEX roll-off like you normally would to interupt.

[bigbywolfe]

I never understood that quote from the rules. By RAW "aborting" to your held half action wouldn't reset your DCV anyway, your DCV only resets "at the start of your next phase". Aborting to use a held half phase still counts as part of the same phase in all respects, you don't get to "reset" penalties, you can't reassign any assigned CV's, you can't change the allocations of MPs/VPPs if you did so in the first half, etc. Specifically "reseting" your DCV is not a function of Aborting at all, it is a function of the fact that you have entered a new phase, you just did it earlier than normal.

 

As for aborting to a whole new phase to reset the penalty as a GM I would allow it in most cases. Giving up an entire phase to defend yourself is penalty enough and removing the ability to do that can be punishing to high spd/high DCV characters who rely on their DCV to survive. Remember that there is nothing that "halves" DEF like there is for DCV so if you remove the ability to abort for that you are basically saying it is just fine for Bricks to use penalty maneuvers (as they generally don't rely on their DCV anyways) but High DCV characters can't ever afford to use them. (This is also one of the reasons Bricks tend to be slower than other archetypes, they don't need to abort to survive attacks so they need fewer phases per turn to be just as effective).

 

Aborting is starting a new phase just early. It DOES allow for the reallocation of Skill levels and technically should allow for the reset of CV penalties. You are giving up your next phase to do whatever you are doing during the abort phase. If you like I CAN look up the text in 5.x and 6e that spells this out.

In case I'm not stating clearly enough:

HOW TO ABORT AN ACTION

Typically a character must declare an Abort

when an attacker announces he’s attacking

that character, but before any rolls are made."

...

If he’s Holding a Phase or Half Phase, he

may Abort to use his Held Action to perform a

defensive Action; in that case he doesn’t lose any

more Phases.

[JasonPacker]

I think I have to agree with BigbyWolf on this one. If you spend half of your actions recovering from your other actions, you're paying a pretty steep price for them. And if you do so by having a really high SPD, you've really paid a high price for it. That, paired with the prohibition against aborting to an action in the same segment you've already acted, seems like it's fair to me.

Out of curiosity, how does that work? If you're SPD 2, and have +1 SPD, only for abort, when does that extra phase occur? Segment 8?

[IndianaJoe3]

I never understood that quote from the rules. By RAW "aborting" to your held half action wouldn't reset your DCV anyway, your DCV only resets "at the start of your next phase". Aborting to use a held half phase still counts as part of the same phase in all respects, you don't get to "reset" penalties, you can't reassign any assigned CV's, you can't change the allocations of MPs/VPPs if you did so in the first half, etc. Specifically "reseting" your DCV is not a function of Aborting at all, it is a function of the fact that you have entered a new phase, you just did it earlier than normal.

 

As for aborting to a whole new phase to reset the penalty as a GM I would allow it in most cases. Giving up an entire phase to defend yourself is penalty enough and removing the ability to do that can be punishing to high spd/high DCV characters who rely on their DCV to survive. Remember that there is nothing that "halves" DEF like there is for DCV so if you remove the ability to abort for that you are basically saying it is just fine for Bricks to use penalty maneuvers (as they generally don't rely on their DCV anyways) but High DCV characters can't ever afford to use them. (This is also one of the reasons Bricks tend to be slower than other archetypes, they don't need to abort to survive attacks so they need fewer phases per turn to be just as effective).

 

Aborting is starting a new phase just early. It DOES allow for the reallocation of Skill levels and technically should allow for the reset of CV penalties. You are giving up your next phase to do whatever you are doing during the abort phase. If you like I CAN look up the text in 5.x and 6e that spells this out.

I think that, "Abort" is being used ambiguously in this case. You aren't using your next Phase (which is what it usually refers to), you are using the remainder of your current Phase defensively in response to an attack.

[bigbywolfe]

I never understood that quote from the rules. By RAW "aborting" to your held half action wouldn't reset your DCV anyway, your DCV only resets "at the start of your next phase". Aborting to use a held half phase still counts as part of the same phase in all respects, you don't get to "reset" penalties, you can't reassign any assigned CV's, you can't change the allocations of MPs/VPPs if you did so in the first half, etc. Specifically "reseting" your DCV is not a function of Aborting at all, it is a function of the fact that you have entered a new phase, you just did it earlier than normal.

 

As for aborting to a whole new phase to reset the penalty as a GM I would allow it in most cases. Giving up an entire phase to defend yourself is penalty enough and removing the ability to do that can be punishing to high spd/high DCV characters who rely on their DCV to survive. Remember that there is nothing that "halves" DEF like there is for DCV so if you remove the ability to abort for that you are basically saying it is just fine for Bricks to use penalty maneuvers (as they generally don't rely on their DCV anyways) but High DCV characters can't ever afford to use them. (This is also one of the reasons Bricks tend to be slower than other archetypes, they don't need to abort to survive attacks so they need fewer phases per turn to be just as effective).

 

Aborting is starting a new phase just early. It DOES allow for the reallocation of Skill levels and technically should allow for the reset of CV penalties. You are giving up your next phase to do whatever you are doing during the abort phase. If you like I CAN look up the text in 5.x and 6e that spells this out.

There is 0 ambiguity about it. Here's the full paragraph from 6E2 pg 22:

Aborting an Action requires the character’s

next full Phase to perform — in essence, the

character uses his next Phase “early” to protect

himself. If he’s Holding a Phase or Half Phase, he

may Abort to use his Held Action to perform a

defensive Action; in that case he doesn’t lose any

more Phases. If a character Aborts his next Phase,

he can’t act until the Phase after that.

 

The phrase is not being used ambiguously. It's in the section called "How To Abort an Action" and the word Abort is even capitalized. If it wasn't an Abort it would require an opposed DEX roll. Period. This isn't a "what Bigby thinks" opinion piece, I'm stating the (very painfully clear) RAW.

 

EDIT: To Bold for emphasis.

[Chris Goodwin]

The best way to stop a character from abusing Abort like this is Area Of Effect attacks.

[Tasha]

I never understood that quote from the rules. By RAW "aborting" to your held half action wouldn't reset your DCV anyway, your DCV only resets "at the start of your next phase". Aborting to use a held half phase still counts as part of the same phase in all respects, you don't get to "reset" penalties, you can't reassign any assigned CV's, you can't change the allocations of MPs/VPPs if you did so in the first half, etc. Specifically "reseting" your DCV is not a function of Aborting at all, it is a function of the fact that you have entered a new phase, you just did it earlier than normal.

 

As for aborting to a whole new phase to reset the penalty as a GM I would allow it in most cases. Giving up an entire phase to defend yourself is penalty enough and removing the ability to do that can be punishing to high spd/high DCV characters who rely on their DCV to survive. Remember that there is nothing that "halves" DEF like there is for DCV so if you remove the ability to abort for that you are basically saying it is just fine for Bricks to use penalty maneuvers (as they generally don't rely on their DCV anyways) but High DCV characters can't ever afford to use them. (This is also one of the reasons Bricks tend to be slower than other archetypes, they don't need to abort to survive attacks so they need fewer phases per turn to be just as effective).

 

Aborting is starting a new phase just early. It DOES allow for the reallocation of Skill levels and technically should allow for the reset of CV penalties. You are giving up your next phase to do whatever you are doing during the abort phase. If you like I CAN look up the text in 5.x and 6e that spells this out.

I think they are using Abort to make it clear that using your half phase delay defensively doesn't require a dex vs dex roll to happen before the attacker. IMHO using Abort in that case both clears up how defensive uses of Half phase delays are handled and also muddies up what is considered an Abort.

 

So IMHO if you Abort your Half Phase delay, you are bound to the limitations as to what you can do with the rest of the phase (ie can't change any levels already allocated, any penalties from conditions or maneuvers you made in the phase still apply).

 

If you Abort normally (ie one that uses up a future phase), then you treat the phase as normal. ie you can reallocate skill levels, powers, and all maneuvers are over once you start the abort. So all bonuses and penalties are gone. This is balanced because the character is giving up a full phase to do this. It can be frustrating, and if a character keeps doing it, then like Chris said the opponents will just pull out the AOE's.

 

As a GM I don't maximize the NPC's use of the Speed Chart, I think players and GMs who do that are metagaming. If "Playing the Speed Chart" gets out of hand, then I will have the NPC's do it as well. Or I will do things like have the villains all delay till the abusing Player's character attack something. Then the Villains will unload on the PC during the segment they can't abort. So while annoying there IS a way to deal with it.