How Would You Improve HERO?

[Ndreare]

Hey all this is something that came to mind after reading another post.

 

If you could change or improve some thing about the way the Hero products are done what would you do?

 

I would do the following small details do you have anything you think could help the books along?

 

1: Change the lay out of characters and creatures a bit so there would be less emphasis on “Points†when reading/looking at characters/creatures from the book. Many people including myself feel the game has a “Text Book†feel to it do to the way lay outs are done.

(I will give an example at the end of this post in a reply.)

 

2: Related to the above I would possibly try other fonts for stuff. It can be amazing how much the “Feel†of something can change based solely on the font and back ground selection.

(Here and there a little comic sans or something.)

[Agent X]

Re: How Would You Improve HERO?

 

Originally posted by Ndreare

Hey all this is something that came to mind after reading another post.

 

If you could change or improve some thing about the way the Hero products are done what would you do?

 

I would do the following small details do you have anything you think could help the books along?

 

1: Change the lay out of characters and creatures a bit so there would be less emphasis on “Points†when reading/looking at characters/creatures from the book. Many people including myself feel the game has a “Text Book†feel to it do to the way lay outs are done.

(I will give an example at the end of this post in a reply.)

 

2: Related to the above I would possibly try other fonts for stuff. It can be amazing how much the “Feel†of something can change based solely on the font and back ground selection.

(Here and there a little comic sans or something.)

I heartily agree. I think the way characters are presented right now downplays the excitement.

[Ndreare]

Here is an example of what I mean. (Please Remember I suck at computers and this is my first try.)

 

 

 

Parasite

Insert Background Story Here. Which would help to emphasize the importance of the characters story.

 

 

Characteristics

20:STR 30:DEX 20:CON 12:BODY 10:INT 15:EGO 23:PRE 12:COM

 

8:PD 8:ED 6:SPD 8:REC 40:END 32:STUN

Total Characteristics Cost: 146

Movement: Run: 6"/NC"

Swim: 2"/NC"

 

Powers

Put a flavor text based description of the characters powers here and then at the end of the description add the game info as follows.

 

Living Armor: Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); Visible (-1/4)

Create Wings: Flight 10", x4 noncombat; Restrainable (-1/2) 2

Supernatural Eyes: Infrared Perception (Sight Group)

Create Tentacles: Extra Limbs (10)

Tentacles: Elemental Control, 20-point powers

1) Those Things Are Long: Stretching 4", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2); Limited Body Parts (-1/4)

2) Tentacles: Swinging 20" (20 Active Points) 2

Symbiotic Armor: Multipower, 45-point reserve

1) Physical Enhancement: Aid 2d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Four Characteristics simultaneously (+1)

2) Acid Spray: Sight Group Flash 6d6, Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2), Accurate (+0) (45 Active Points) 4

3) Spray Acid: Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6 - 1, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Continuous (+1), Penetrating (x2; +1) (35 Active Points)

4) Razor Barbs: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6 (2d6 w/STR), Range Based On STR (+1/4), Armor Piercing (+1/2) (26 Active Points) 3

5) Paralyze: Drain End 2d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Ranged (+1/2) (35 Active Points) 3

6) Poisoned Spikes: Drain STR 1 1/2d6, Range Based On STR (+1/4), Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1/4), Area Of Effect (One Hex; +1/2) (30 Active Points) 3

 

Skills

+2 Overall

Acrobatics 15-

Breakfall 15-

Climbing 15-

Contortionist 15-

CK: Millennium City 8-

KS: Millennium City Underworld 11-

Lockpicking 15-

Sleight Of Hand 15-

Stealth 15-

Streetwise 19-

Teamwork 15-

 

Total Powers & Skills Cost: 201

Total Cost: 347

 

225+ Disadvantages

20 Psychological Limitation: Obsessed With Crimefighting Very Common, Strong

20 Dependent NPC: Homeless Friends 11-, Normal, Group DNPC: Dozens DNPCs

5 Distinctive Features: Mutant (Not Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable Only By Unusual Senses)

20 Hunted: UNTIL (& other misled Law Men) 8- (Occasionally), More Powerful, NCI, Capture

20 Psychological Limitation: Overconfidence Very Common, Strong

10 Reputation: reckless vigilante, Frequently (11-)

30 Vulnerability: 2 x Everything Heat (Uncommon)

 

Total Disadvantage Points: 347

[caris]

focus, people, focus

 

Given that no change or decision is going to please everyone, I’d like to see the projects with a tighter focus giving them more depth and less breadth. The current system keeps leaving me feel either like the entire subject isn’t treated with the detail it deserves or that the important parts of don’t get the attention they deserve simply because tough choices had to be made. This, of course, doesn’t happen with all the projects, but it has with enough of the products that I’ve purchased that it is starting to bother me.

 

The genre books in particular have been giving me that feeling. I’m going to take the Champions book as an example, because I liked it best. It did have close to the level and type of focus that I was looking for. I feel it was because it was known that Dark Champions and Galactic Champions were already at least tentatively scheduled for production, which meant their issues could be delayed. Now if Champions had been marketed more as a sub-genre book for mid-ranged super hero gaming, I would have been ecstatic, since few people would have been disappointed by the focus.

 

Hope that made sense, and to those of you who prefer the current choice, I intend no disrespect to your preference.

[Alcamtar]

I wish there were a simple, concise, standard "combat summary" block. I've tried lots of different variants, but they all seem to have too much information and take up half a page. Just specifying defenses requires at least 4 numbers! If there were a standard layout ("Spd 4/14, CV 4/4/3 (+3), Def 10/6/9/6 [13-], etc") it could be a lot more compact because you wouldn't have to label everything.

 

Mike

[Chris Goodwin]

I would improve Hero by trying to figure out what is the heart of the Hero System, and paring everything else away.

[Fitz]

I would rationalise and condense the Powers list for attacks, making use of Modifiers to differentiate them. I don't see the point of having separate powers for HA, EB, HKA and RKA when the only difference between them comes down to the way they're implemented.

 

A single "Attack" power, with modifications:

* Usable at range

* Can't add STR

* Does killing damage

along with all the other Modifiers currently available would do the trick.

 

Similarly, Flight and Gliding could be conflated. I have no doubt there are other points as well, though they don't come to mind off the cuff.

 

My reasoning for this is to make the Powers as generic as possible -- there is still something of a bias towards Hero's Champions beginnings when it comes to power names and organisation.

[JmOz]

It's a small thing but drop the fractions and go to quarter decimals (.25, .5, .75) It is small but the small change will make the math easier for alot of people (Don't ask me why converting is so hard for them...)

[Rene]

Re: focus, people, focus

 

Originally posted by caris

The genre books in particular have been giving me that feeling. I’m going to take the Champions book as an example, because I liked it best. Now if Champions had been marketed more as a sub-genre book for mid-ranged super hero gaming, I would have been ecstatic, since few people would have been disappointed by the focus.

 

I completelly agree with you.

 

I loved Fantasy Hero and Star Hero, but the strange thing is that, after reading them, I've got the uncomfortable sensation that my appetite had only been whetted. It's a strange thing to say of such huge books!

 

Fantasy and Science Fiction are huge genres. I feel that every one of the subgenres mentioned in the books deserved a sourcebook of their own, and probably several sub-subgenres deserved one too.

[gewing]

2 point strength

[dugfromthearth]

I actually have worked up Attack as just one power that can be used for EB, HA, HKA, RKA, Drain, Suppress, etc. Someday I will post it.

 

 

Changes I would make (and have house rules for): all primary characteristics cost 2pts per +1. That makes it so much easier for players to figure out. (Divide dex into dex and agility, one for OCV the other DCV and Spd).

 

Also changing char rolls to 8+char/3. This matches OCV/DCV which is dex/3, and default is 8- so going from default to bought skill follows a logical progression. 8- to 8+char/3 or less. At 2pts per +1 char it costs 6pts for a +1 instead of 5, very close numbers. And it makes the spread for normal humans 8- to 15- (for a char of 20).

[Monolith]

The first change I would like to see is glossy paper and full-color format. That way it will catch the eye of all the short-attention-span fans out there and generate more sales. Unfortunate as it is full-color is quickly becoming the industry standard and Champions products will eventually need to follow suit or be categorized as archaic within the fan's minds.

 

The only other thing I would like to see is a greater emphasis on story and less on numbers. Give more life to the characters and locals within the books and worry less about the numbers and statistics. It would not bother me at all to see characters presented with nothing more than their characteristics, powers, etc displayed in an easy to read fashion without showing a single number. Sometimes I think the numbers make the game see too analytical.

 

I once sent a letter to Darren stating that I liked the SAS crossover stories they were doing for the competition but that I would much rather have seen DOJ just post 1,000 word or less stories on their websites every couple of weeks giving insights into the characters within the various HERO Universe products. A 1,000 word Dr. Destroyer story, or a 1,000 word story about Ravenswood Academy, or a 1,000 word story about Empress Marissa would go a long way to breathing more life into the various campaigns.

[Rene]

Originally posted by dugfromthearth

Changes I would make (and have house rules for): all primary characteristics cost 2pts per +1. That makes it so much easier for players to figure out. (Divide dex into dex and agility, one for OCV the other DCV and Spd).

 

Also changing char rolls to 8+char/3. This matches OCV/DCV which is dex/3, and default is 8- so going from default to bought skill follows a logical progression. 8- to 8+char/3 or less. At 2pts per +1 char it costs 6pts for a +1 instead of 5, very close numbers. And it makes the spread for normal humans 8- to 15- (for a char of 20).

 

 

I'm not sure I like these specific suggestions (I'd have to think more about them), but I like the way you think. While I'm not terribly unhappy with the way HERO is now, sometimes I think they should have been more radical with 5th edition.

 

Sometimes I have the impression that HERO remains unchanged in most of it's basic rules more out of tradition (and respect to it's diehard fans) than any other factor. And a more internally consistent and newbie-friendly approach would work better.

[zornwil]

There's been other threads on rules changes, so, staying away from those and keeping more with presentation, I do like the idea of "livening up" the character presentation. However, I wouldn't want to go so far as M&M which shows results and not all the points determinations. Otherwise, their versions do look nice.

 

Color would be nice but not until it's really justified. Considering SAS d20 can come out still in B&W, I don't think the marketplace totally demands it yet.

 

I've said elsewhere, I would have a smaller basic rulebook as the "core" book with some other more specialized book wtih detailed rules examination/explication and optional rules, as well as leave some optional rules for genre books. However, I don't have any real problem with the way it is now.

 

Unlike what others have said here, I don't like the idea of focusing the genre books somehow tighter or making them more specific. The source and adventure books should do more of that, and the genre books, at least initial ones, have to cover the whole genre. No way can that be done too tightly. I do NOT like what other companies have done, with a sourcebook masquerading as a genre book, with the "genre" really being something very narrow and specific, too much so for more generalized use.

[Toadmaster]

Originally posted by Monolith

The only other thing I would like to see is a greater emphasis on story and less on numbers. Give more life to the characters and locals within the books and worry less about the numbers and statistics. It would not bother me at all to see characters presented with nothing more than their characteristics, powers, etc displayed in an easy to read fashion without showing a single number. Sometimes I think the numbers make the game see too analytical.

 

I once sent a letter to Darren stating that I liked the SAS crossover stories they were doing for the competition but that I would much rather have seen DOJ just post 1,000 word or less stories on their websites every couple of weeks giving insights into the characters within the various HERO Universe products. A 1,000 word Dr. Destroyer story, or a 1,000 word story about Ravenswood Academy, or a 1,000 word story about Empress Marissa would go a long way to breathing more life into the various campaigns.

 

I agree with you on this, to be fair to DoJ I haven't really looked at their new campaign materials but I never used the old HERO campaign worlds because they seemed uninspired (like they were just providing a background for people who couldn't make their own). We always used our own or converted material from other games. This is one of the reasons I would prefer DoJ stick with genre books and aids such as the Grimore or USPD.

 

I don't agree with the color, B&W doesn't bother me (I had a B&W TV until I was about 18) I'm far more concerned with the content. I don't really think there is much DoJ can do to win over the short attention span gamer.

[Toadmaster]

Things I would change in HERO:

 

Less supers (I know its the most popular but in my selfish world I have little need for the genre). Since this is not likely and selfish on my part, I would like to see Supers seperated from the rest for the many inconsistancies it creates, Supers is far to unrealistic to have all the the rules, equipment, weapons etc fit both that genre and the rest of the more realistic settings (FH, modern etc). At least an official stance that two sets of stats may be needed between Supers and the other genres, the HERO timeline thing went in the opposite direction for my tastes trying to make Supers part of all genres, Supers is just too far out to fit into the other genres to me.

 

Either eliminate or make sure everything follows the 2x for +5 points rule. The current sometimes they do sometimes they don't is very annoying.

 

Have the government give DoJ 1 billion dollars so they can get all the books we are waiting for out, and they can give free copies to all of us loyal HERO fans.

[Rene]

Originally posted by zornwil

Unlike what others have said here, I don't like the idea of focusing the genre books somehow tighter or making them more specific. The source and adventure books should do more of that, and the genre books, at least initial ones, have to cover the whole genre.

 

But how do you cover a genre like fantasy or science fiction? They're huge (almost endless) genres. While I don't think Fantasy Hero and Star Hero are "useless" (they do a fine job of presenting most of the most basic and most broad archetypes of the genres, both in descriptive fashion and in HERO terms), they're doomed to only skim over the surface.

 

They seem to be more useful to "beginners" in these genres, even though they're not useless to hardcore fans.

 

If you're a newbie, i.e. you only know Tolkien and Howard (or Star Trek and Star Wars), why would you buy Fantasy HERO (Star HERO)? There are RPGs specifically designed to deal with these settings and most of them probably are "sexier", more popular, and easier to learn than HERO. And you could always fall back to D&D if all you want is skim the surface of the genre. I think these bases are already covered.

 

My idea is that HERO should focus on the things the other systems do badly. That is, simulate the 98% of the genre that isn't Tolkien, Howard, Star Trek, Star Wars... So it would have a niche.

 

Suppose a gamer wants to simulate a world like Philip José Farmer's World of Tiers. He wants some rules about "Superscience" (i.e. science that is much more awesome and magical-like than that seem in most science fiction), this gamer would have an easier time of it by refering to a book detailing the "Planetary Romance" genre (a la Edgar Rice Burroughs). Now, if you have to use "Star Hero", it's pratically useless in that, because it's too broad.

 

Even "Champions", that covers a genre somewhat more limited than Science Fiction or Fantasy, seems somewhat cursory at times.

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Rene

But how do you cover a genre like fantasy or science fiction? They're huge (almost endless) genres. While I don't think Fantasy Hero and Star Hero are "useless" (they do a fine job of presenting most of the most basic and most broad archetypes of the genres, both in descriptive fashion and in HERO terms), they're doomed to only skim over the surface.

 

They seem to be more useful to "beginners" in these genres, even though they're not useless to hardcore fans.

 

I don't agree. Many of the people here are by no means newbies to either super-hero or fantasy but have found many useful items in Champions and Fantasy HERO. The various rules interpretations, extras, changes, that come with the "generic genre" books I think ARE pretty useful even if you're long-experienced.

 

If you're a newbie, i.e. you only know Tolkien and Howard (or Star Trek and Star Wars), why would you buy Fantasy HERO (Star HERO)? There are RPGs specifically designed to deal with these settings and most of them probably are "sexier", more popular, and easier to learn than HERO. And you could always fall back to D&D if all you want is skim the surface of the genre. I think these bases are already covered.

 

I strongly suspect most newbies buy the genre books as they get into HERO and become interested in making it their system for everything or more things or new things. And as stated above, I don't see how even someone long-experienced would anticipate HERO's various ideas on incorporating magic, even though they may well come up with something as good or better on their own.

 

My idea is that HERO should focus on the things the other systems do badly. That is, simulate the 98% of the genre that isn't Tolkien, Howard, Star Trek, Star Wars... So it would have a niche.

 

Suppose a gamer wants to simulate a world like Philip José Farmer's World of Tiers. He wants some rules about "Superscience" (i.e. science that is much more awesome and magical-like than that seem in most science fiction), this gamer would have an easier time of it by refering to a book detailing the "Planetary Romance" genre (a la Edgar Rice Burroughs). Now, if you have to use "Star Hero", it's pratically useless in that, because it's too broad.

 

Even "Champions", that covers a genre somewhat more limited than Science Fiction or Fantasy, seems somewhat cursory at times.

 

I don't disagree that the more specific genre books would be cool but I suspect strongly you'd see all these more specific books share something like 75% of what you see in the general genre books.

 

These are all just my thoughts, obviously your mileage varies. I mean no disrespect to that.

[Rene]

Originally posted by zornwil

I don't agree. Many of the people here are by no means newbies to either super-hero or fantasy but have found many useful items in Champions and Fantasy HERO. The various rules interpretations, extras, changes, that come with the "generic genre" books I think ARE pretty useful even if you're long-experienced.[/b]

 

The books ARE useful (Fantasy Hero and Star Hero somewhat more than Champions). I said that even hardcore fans would find something there to keep them happy. I've certainly found. I'd say that Fantasy Hero's content, for instance, is 50% useful to me. The other 50% is very basic stuff, cool to have in one place, and certainly somewhat useful for you to page through and rekindle the memories of things you already knew, but very very basic.

 

I compare that to the Ultimate Martial Artist, that I'd say is 85-90% useful. "Martial Arts" is a tighter concept than "Fantasy", so it's treated in a very detailed manner, they come up with all kinds of stuff that I'd never be able to figure out on my own.

 

And I think "Champions" is the genre book I least liked. I'd say 15% or less of Champions is really useful to me. I'm not sure if that is because I know the supers genre better than fantasy and science fiction, because there is less to know about it, or because HERO System "default genre" still seems to be supers, so there is less deviation from the core book.

 

Any supers fan worth his marbles knows basically what the Silver Age was and what the major themes were. Now, a book providing in-depth details about the Silver Age, THAT would be useful.

 

 

Originally posted by zornwil

I strongly suspect most newbies buy the genre books as they get into HERO and become interested in making it their system for everything or more things or new things. And as stated above, I don't see how even someone long-experienced would anticipate HERO's various ideas on incorporating magic, even though they may well come up with something as good or better on their own.[/b]

 

I don't think you'd be able to reach the very same results regarding the "hard bits" (for instance, the magic systems rules). But for anyone who've read 10 or 15 books of low fantasy (some works from George R. R. Martin, Guy Gavriel Kay, Lynn Flewelling, etc.), the several descritive parts (not "system" bits) that regard Low Fantasy are very very cursory. You could easily get there on your own.

 

Now, an in-depth discussion about how to implement Low Fantasy magic in your game, that is the kind of thing that would've been extraordinarily useful.

 

 

Originally posted by zornwil

I don't disagree that the more specific genre books would be cool but I suspect strongly you'd see all these more specific books share something like 75% of what you see in the general genre books. [/b]

 

It depends. The broad genre books released have been somewhat slanted toward certain subgenres and themes. Star HERO covers space exploration with great detail, for instance. Fantasy HERO, for all of Steve Long's seeming ambiguous feelings about the worth of High Fantasy, seem somewhat more inclined towards High Fantasy (perhaps because most of the broad archetypes are found in this subgenre).

 

If you'd release a HERO Space Travel or High Fantasy HERO, I'd say you could get 40-50% from Fantasy Hero and Star Hero. But I don't think that is the case with the other subgenres.

 

Maybe they should have gone all the way and just write a book about High Fantasy and name it "Fantasy Hero". High Fantasy is popular enough that most readers wouldn't mind to see the other subgenres go. And that would mean more space to delve deeper into High Fantasy.

[caris]

Originally posted by zornwil

 

I don't agree. Many of the people here are by no means newbies to either super-hero or fantasy but have found many useful items in Champions and Fantasy HERO. The various rules interpretations, extras, changes, that come with the "generic genre" books I think ARE pretty useful even if you're long-experienced.

 

 

 

I strongly suspect most newbies buy the genre books as they get into HERO and become interested in making it their system for everything or more things or new things. And as stated above, I don't see how even someone long-experienced would anticipate HERO's various ideas on incorporating magic, even though they may well come up with something as good or better on their own.

 

 

 

I don't disagree that the more specific genre books would be cool but I suspect strongly you'd see all these more specific books share something like 75% of what you see in the general genre books.

 

These are all just my thoughts, obviously your mileage varies. I mean no disrespect to that. [/b]

Part of my reason for wanting more focus, is to deal with reasonable expectations on the parts of consumers. Going back to the Champions book. It did a very good job of covering mid-range Supers mainly of the Silver and Iron ages from the comic books, but it did not do as good of a job with the Golden Age, low power, high power, or source material other than comic books. The simple fact of the matter is that the book could not cover all of those subjects in depth at the length it was, and to cover all of them would have required an increase in size that would probably have been prohibitive. In addition Dark Champions (low power with a greater emphasis on the Iron age) and Galactic Champions (higher power with science fiction/supers genre merge) were already tentatively on the schedule, and I’m sure that there was a conscious decision to limit the over lap with those projects. The problem here is that Champions was marketed as the main genre book for the supers genre. It would have been reasonable for a person buying the book to expect it to cover in more detail more topics than it did. I have already heard complaints to that effect from other consumers, and there were a few key points here and there that I felt even with the focus it had deserved a greater discussion.

 

I also disagree that by increasing the focus you have to turn the book from a genre book into a setting book. While I grant that the Champions source book may have relied too heavily on the Champions Universe to provide its examples, it would have been possible to swap out examples from other settings with differing sets of base assumptions to show how they could be created. Also a more focused genre book could devote more time to discussing genre related details like conventions, including things like why the convention came about, how the convention differs by media, and options on how to implement the convention within a campaign.

 

While the genre books are the ones where I find this particular problem most noticeable, they are not the only ones where I end up feeling that way. It shows up in some of the source books and the Ultimate books as well.

 

What we are talking about is perceived value and utility, and the concern about redundancy is a very reasonable concern. It is already happening, the rules for creating a character that is permanently larger, smaller, heavier, or lighter than a normal human is covered in three of the books that I have purchased so far. Increasing the focus may worsen the redundancy issue or it could improve it. It depends on how DOJ decides to approach the issue.

 

I’d been trying to focus on the positive, but I might as well come out and address the actual negative that I’ve been feeling. Too many of the books that I’ve bought have not lived up to my expectations of them from the claims that the books have made for themselves. In almost every case when I sat and thought about it, I came to the conclusion that the book was trying to do too much. In some cases the book was trying to do too much for the resources that could be devoted to it, and if more time and pages, it might have been able achieve its goals. In other cases, the book was trying to do something that no single finite project like a single book can ever really hope to accomplish.

 

Does increasing the focus of the books mean that there is a greater chance that there is a specific book I will not buy, because I know that the book isn’t going to cover anything I’m interested in? Yes. Is that already happening and going to happen pretty much no matter what? Yes.

 

On the other hand, I’m reaching the point where I’m about to give up on entire categories of books from this company. I’m starting to feel that either I can pretty much expect the level of actual useful material not to match the price, or much worse not really trusting books to be covering what they say they are covering.

 

I don’t expect DOJ to do every possible sub-genre or combination of genres, but I would prefer for DOJ to pick a tighter focus and cover it in greater detail, than the current approach, which tends to feel overly broad and/or incomplete. To give an example: my hope is that the upcoming Dark Champions book stays focused on the street level supers characters, and/or on super characters with a darker edge to them. I am worried, because of the way that Champions talked about the sub-genre, that Dark Champions will try to cover those two things, plus super agents and agencies like “SHEILDâ€, super espionage like the “Spy Kids†movie or James Bond, and possibly even start to edge too much into the pulp characters going into normal gang busters like the Untouchables. I’m not saying that all of those topics don’t deserve to be covered. I’m saying the opposite, that they deserve to be covered in greater detail than trying to cram them all into one book would allow.

[Doc Democracy]

What I want is the kind of thing I'd see in a Referee's Manual.

 

I'd like to see some discussion of how to present the game to the players to make the system more conducive to the genre being played.

 

Last weekend I ran what was essentially a Justice Inc session but designed the sheets myself to make them more friendly to people that lean heavily towards D20.

 

I presented all of the stats and skills with bonuses, e.g. STR 20 (which gives a STR roll of 13) was presented as Strength +3 and similarly any points of skills were presented as bonuses. So 3 pts spent on Climbing got Climbing (STR) +0 - the STR indicating they should add the STR bonus. 5 points would give Climbing (STR) +1.

 

I presented the combat and skill resolution system as having to beat 10 on 3D6. The roll is modified upward by a characters combat bonus (OCV) and modified downward by the targets defence bonus (DCV).

 

Similarly skill resolution required 3D6 to beat a roll of 10 where the roll is modified upwards using relevant skill and characteristic bonuses and downward by difficulty factors and/or resisting skills.

 

I simply wrote out the Astounding Talents each of the characters verbally without ever referring to game mechanics other than END cost.

 

It all went very well - with no-one asking how good a particular skill or ability was. And this was from a group that profess to dislike the complexity of the Hero System.

 

It would be interesting to have a handbook outline how presentation can spectacularly influence the acceptance of a game - and then describe how that might be done. (I reckon a thinnish book and CD-ROM would be sufficient!)

[TheQuestionMan]

What we want and what we get

 

Dear DoJ , what I wish to see have with my HERO System products is colored interior art work , clearer character sheets , and most especially your continued great efforts .

 

To date I have purchased all but "The Ultimate Vehicles" and "Terran Empire" products . The first because of finacial reasons and the second because it did not grab me or inspire me to play a Space HERO game .

 

I wasn't entirely happy with the Champions sourcebook . The layout of the architypes and power grouping was laid out in a dizzying manner . As mentioned above a lack of inspiring comic art ( good stuff yes , but lacking in spirit ) .

 

P.S. : the Index is the thing !!!

[SDK]

Originally posted by Fitz

I would rationalise and condense the Powers list for attacks, making use of Modifiers to differentiate them. I don't see the point of having separate powers for HA, EB, HKA and RKA when the only difference between them comes down to the way they're implemented.

 

A single "Attack" power, with modifications:

* Usable at range

* Can't add STR

* Does killing damage

along with all the other Modifiers currently available would do the trick.

(snip)

 

And for defenses. FF is Armor that costs end, and Armor is just a shorthand for pd/ed/dr.

[zornwil]

All I can really say is that I don't see the books as Rene and Cairis do. To you both, I respect your feelings as that's how it is for you. By all means, you should speak up.

 

For me, the genre books were of adequate or more depth and fairly applicable. I would not have wanted more depth in any one area. It might have been nice if the Champions book concentrated less on the Silver/Iron ideal, but I don't feel it was oppressively so, and, if we're discussing "expectations", well, all the books are exactly as I believe HERO marketed them according to my expectations.

 

Given that I have little interest in settings, the only other places I'm going to see more detail will be in the source books which aren't purely "here's a city" or "here's an organization", of which I'll certainly buy some. I would hope that to the degree HERO explores sub-genres that they do so in source books so marketed and intended and don't short-change the sub-genre for any setting that may be included. Cairis, you made some point about this, I'm not sure where you got the idea I thought a genre book had to be turned into a setting to be more specific, perhaps I used the wrong words. I was referring to source books, which I don't take as necessarily having to be specific settings, or, at the least, don't have to revolve around the setting, rather, the setting should revolve around the points to be made about the sub-genre.

 

Well, one complaint - I think it's unfair that Fantasy HERO got way more pages than Champions. I imagine the idea is that Fantasy as a genre requires more finessing of the rules, as well as the priority HERO probably has on attracting Fantasy customers. But given that Champions has at least traditionally been the company's flagship product or genre, I feel that its genre book should more-or-less arbitrarily have included more "stuff". However, that book was one of the first of the relaunched HERO, so I imagine that played into the picture as well.

[lemming]

Originally posted by zornwil

Well, one complaint - I think it's unfair that Fantasy HERO got way more pages than Champions. I imagine the idea is that Fantasy as a genre requires more finessing of the rules, as well as the priority HERO probably has on attracting Fantasy customers. But given that Champions has at least traditionally been the company's flagship product or genre, I feel that its genre book should more-or-less arbitrarily have included more "stuff". However, that book was one of the first of the relaunched HERO, so I imagine that played into the picture as well.

I think the books expanded a bit after Champions as well. Plus there have been more books (I think).

 

Then again, I haven't finished reading FH, I keep being distracted and then I got my hands on Viper.

 

I've got a few finance issues coming up with the new books, but now what I really have a problem with is reading them due to time.