A Question about Ancient Rome

[Shadowjax]

Does anyone know of any books, online sites, or other sources that detail Ancient Rome? I would need something around the height of the games (990 A.D.; I'm guessing on the date here.)

 

The reason I need it is because I have gotten involved with a Fantasy Hero game that uses Ancient Rome as its basis. I just wanted to do some research.

 

I know someone will say, "Look at your local library." Well, I KNOW to do that. What I am looking for is a specific book or source that you may know about, that you think is good.

 

I thank you all in advance for any suggestions.

 

~Shadowjax

[Dino]

I belive there is a GURPS sourcebook (or 2) for ancient Rome. The GURPS historical books are generally a good resourse for any genre/system, by the way.

[cutsleeve]

gurps rome? steve jackson has always done good research for his gurps game line and tends to seperate the fact from fiction. other then game materials you might want to rent a few movies. Not gladiator but some of the older technicolor roman movies they did many good ones spaticus, ben hur, amd cleopatra to name the bigger movies. doing a google search will net you many sites which have information http://www.dalton.org/groups/rome/ http://members.aol.com/Donnclass/Romelife.html

http://www.ghg.net/shetler/rome/

 

and you can find out many interesting little facts about a culture by finding out what, how, and why they eat certian foods

 

http://www2.carthage.edu/outis/food.html

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~mjw/recipes/ethnic/historical/ant-rom-coll.html

http://www.classicsunveiled.com/romel/html/romefood.html this link also has other information

 

 

Basically theirs alot of info and ancient rome is a very good subject to be familiar with

[Lord Liaden]

For a fairly detailed, navigable web source on the Roman Empire, I'd suggest this site:

 

http://www.roman-empire.net/

 

Try clicking on the "Society" button, and then on "Games."

 

Also, if you can find a copy of the old Hero Games paper periodical Adventurers Club #17, that contained a detailed article on Roman gladiatorial combat, including history and terminology, plus HERO Package Deals and Martial Arts.

 

BTW 990 A.D. is rather out of the ballpark for what you're looking for; the empire of Rome had pretty much collapsed by the start of the 6th Century A.D. The height of the gladiatorial games and the circus was probably from the late 1st Century B.C. to the end of the 2nd Century A.D.

[lemming]

Re: A Question about Ancient Rome

 

Originally posted by Shadowjax

Does anyone know of any books, online sites, or other sources that detail Ancient Rome? I would need something around the height of the games (990 A.D.; I'm guessing on the date here.)

GURPs Imperial Rome for starters.

[shinrin]

If your game has deadly political intrique, see about renting the "I, Claudius" mini-series. I've seen it advertised in a Public-Television Gift Catalog for sale on VHS. I'm sure it exists somewhere on DVD.

[Vanguard00]

A few more links for ya...

 

http://webpages.charter.net/brueggeman/table-of-contents.html

http://members.tripod.com/~S_van_Dorst/legio.html

http://www.teacheroz.com/toc.htm

 

That last one is a teacher's page, and it's FULL of links. Some don't work anymore, but you can still find oodles of useful info.

[Agent Escafarc]

Originally posted by shinrin

If your game has deadly political intrique, see about renting the "I, Claudius" mini-series. I've seen it advertised in a Public-Television Gift Catalog for sale on VHS. I'm sure it exists somewhere on DVD.

I second this. But it's not kid freindly though! I enjoyed the contest with the prositute:D

[dugfromthearth]

the western roman empire fell around 500 ad.

 

although it was theoretically revived by Charlemagne around 750ad

 

it was even more theoretically revived as the Holy Roman Empire (I have no idea when it was founded, it was put to an end by Napoleon in 1804 or 1805).

 

The eastern half of the Roman Empire survived until around 1300 or so I believe.

 

But the gladiatorial games would have been at their height around 100-200 ad.

 

Note that gladiatorial games were never all that popular in Rome, chariot races were the favored sport. Especially in the eastern roman empire.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by dugfromthearth

the western roman empire fell around 500 ad.

 

although it was theoretically revived by Charlemagne around 750ad

 

it was even more theoretically revived as the Holy Roman Empire (I have no idea when it was founded, it was put to an end by Napoleon in 1804 or 1805).

 

The eastern half of the Roman Empire survived until around 1300 or so I believe.

 

But the gladiatorial games would have been at their height around 100-200 ad.

 

Note that gladiatorial games were never all that popular in Rome, chariot races were the favored sport. Especially in the eastern roman empire.

Constantinople fell, I believe, in 1453. I'm thinking it was Mehmet who had commissioned the construction of the mammoth cannon that breached Constantinople's wall.

 

Charlemagne was not referred to as the Holy Roman Emperor. It may have been Barbarossa who began to call himself the Holy Roman Emperor.

 

476 A.D./C.E. is usually the date given to the end of the Western Roman Empire.

[Shadowjax]

Wow

 

Wow. Thanks to everyone who posted a reply and thanks for all the links. It will take some time to go through it all, but time is all I have anyway.

 

~Shadowjax

[keithcurtis]

"Lest Darkness Fall" By L. Spraque DeCamp(?) and "I am a Barbarian" by ERB. They are both fun books that have a lot of good info for RPG-ers.

 

The former is about a modern man transported back to just prior to the fall of the Roman Empire. He takes it upon himself to halt the onset of the 'Dark Ages'.

 

The latter is one of my favorite ERB books. It is the story of a slave from Briton who grows up as a companion to Caligula. ("Little Boots"). Great fun and filled with good trivia.

 

Keith "for ~990, read the comic Arak, Son of Thunder"" Curtis

[dugfromthearth]

Charlemagne was crowned by the Pope and called a Roman Emperor, the term Holy Roman Empire is made up by historians, like the Byzantine Empire.

 

A google search for charlemagne and "holy roman emperor" will get you 8,510 links to confirm it.

 

http://www.hfac.uh.edu/gbrown/philosophers/leibniz/BritannicaPages/HolyRomanEmpire/HolyRomanEmpire.html

 

The Roman title of emperor, which had lapsed in western Europe in the 5th century, was revived in 800 by Pope Leo III and conferred on Charlemagne, king of the Franks. After another lapse when the Carolingian line died out, the title of emperor, or Holy Roman emperor, was borne by successive dynasties of German kings almost continuously from the mid-10th century until the abolition of the empire.

 

The Latin phrase sacrum Romanum imperium actually dates only from 1254, though the term holy empire reaches back to 1157, and the term Roman empire was used from 1034 to denote the lands under the emperor Conrad II. The term Roman emperor is older, dating from Otto II (d. 983). The term Holy Roman emperor is a convention adopted by modern historians; it was never officially used. The prospective heir to the throne was called king of the Romans.

[Carmen]

Daily Life in Ancient Rome by Jerome Carcopino (ISBN 0-300-00031-6)

 

It's a little dry, but you might find it useful.

[AnotherSkip]

My personal fave is "Those who are about to die" it covers quite well the rise and fall of gladatoral gaming. good for history of before the period you want as well as after.

 

 

BTW

dug from the earth I disagree with your notions of popularity. Besides, not to get snooty but just exactly what do you think the Romans did with the thousands of square feet under the Colossiseum, the trap doors, the mechanical items? Run chariots down there too?

 

 

now if you had said the reverse, inside of rome you had die hard fans of the games, outside of Rome proper chariot racing was seen as more fun, then I might agree with you.

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by AnotherSkip

BTW

dug from the earth I disagree with your notions of popularity. Besides, not to get snooty but just exactly what do you think the Romans did with the thousands of square feet under the Colossiseum, the trap doors, the mechanical items? Run chariots down there too?

 

 

now if you had said the reverse, inside of rome you had die hard fans of the games, outside of Rome proper chariot racing was seen as more fun, then I might agree with you.

 

Actually, that was what the Circus Maximus was for. I won't disagree with you, since you seem fairly knowledgable, but I had always heard that the CM was more popular than the Colosseum. Maybe they each had their day?

 

Keith "Ave Caesar" Curtis

[dugfromthearth]

to be snooty, I assume you are referring to the Flavian Amphitheatre, the Roman name for what we call the coloseum in Rome.

 

It was used for gladiatorial games including animals and could be flooded for naval battles. The Emperor Vespasian started building the Amphitheatre. It did cost a lot in theory, but not compared to the wealth of the Empire. And it was not built based on a business decision that it would make money, but to curry the favor of the mob.

 

Remember that Rome had a population approaching 1 million people. So getting a large audience for a free show was not hard. It did have fans, but it was not that popular. (dictionary.com pop·u·lar adj. Widely liked or appreciated).

 

note the phrase "bread and circuses" refers to the Circus Maximus and chariot races, not the Amphitheatre and gladiatorial games.

[Nightshade]

If you want a primary source for Roman politics (ie an original writing by someone who was near or in the period), I would suggest a translation of the Twelve Caesars by Sutonius, if you can find one.

 

Just as an asside, the Byzantine Empire was incredibly interesting. If you went there and asked people, they would say that they were Roman, even though at the time, Rome was not in then Empire, they primarily spoke Greek, not Latin, and only had Turkey as being part of Europe. One of the Emperors thought that this situation was totally unacceptable (that Rome wasn't part of the Roman Empire), that he invaded Italy to try to reclaim the "heart" of the Empire. The campaign failed.

 

Nightshade

[shinrin]

Gladius

 

I just picked up the X-Box game, Gladius, which is a game of gladatorial combat. The setting is a fantasy-world stylized after the Roman Empire known as Imperia and the German lands known as Nordagh. Both countries used to be at war with each other, but after a prolonged conflict and bloodshed, the war brought forth an evil Dark God. The Dark God was beat down by a host of Valkries and a temple contsructed over it's body to safeguard against it's return. Now Imperia and Nordagh have formed an uneasy peace and settle their disputes with gladatorial games. The game is part RPG and part combat game. The dialogues between the characters at some points can be annoying and I wish there was an option to turn it off.

 

I thought this would make an interesting fantasy setting as it does have it's share of fantasy creatures like Satyrs, Minotaurs, Cyclops, Undead, etc., which you can fight against in the games. You can also fight against traditional gladatorial units like Centurions, Murmillo, Samnites and Secutors.

 

It's a very interesting game, if a bit frustrating at times, but I'm getting a handle on it and i picked up a Strategy Guide to help me out. The Strategy guide has some really cool artwork in it as well. If you go to LucasArts website at www.gladius.com, there is some very cool concept art there for inspiration to run a game in this setting.

[Vondy]

Its well known that Julius Caesar did not care for "the games," and essentially considered them an opiate for the masses. He typically did his paperwork while attending (according to his own works, those of Circero (a contemporary), and Plutarch (who was about 40 years too late in beginning his career to have been an eye witness)), and only looked up when his attention was required.

 

They seem to have grown in popularity as the empire emerged and aged (and as emporers relied on distracting the populace more and more), though, without anything akin to modern statistical data, how popular they actually were is an interestingly (and largely unanswerable) question.

 

I would caution against making it universally popular, however. Why: not everybody is a "sports fan."

[AaronD]

My favorite book on the subject is called "Warfare in the Classical World"*. Its a good primer on Greece and Rome. Its mostly military and doesn't really talk about gladiators. Anyway, its got lots of groovy pictures. You should be able to find it at your local used book store in the military history section.

 

Aaron

 

*I've also seen it sold as "Warfare in the Ancient World".

[AnotherSkip]

Ehh either the Circius or the Flavian it doesnt matter much, most of what I read was skewed toward the Gladitorial combats and information therin. if i wanted to I could pull all sorts of historical sounding crud outta the book. I just liked it as a good source for imprial information. beides wasn't the Circuitus Maximus ripped down for St. Peters Basillica? If so,then some speclate that more christians died there then in the Flavian.

 

 

of course Dark sun might have some interesting ideas as far as politics. at least some of Dark Sun was based on the Roman Empire.

[assault]

Originally posted by Nightshade

Just as an asside, the Byzantine Empire was incredibly interesting. If you went there and asked people, they would say that they were Roman, even though at the time, Rome was not in then Empire, they primarily spoke Greek, not Latin, and only had Turkey as being part of Europe. One of the Emperors thought that this situation was totally unacceptable (that Rome wasn't part of the Roman Empire), that he invaded Italy to try to reclaim the "heart" of the Empire. The campaign failed.

 

This is a little bit garbled.

 

The Eastern Empire continued for about a thousand years after the Western Empire fell. This wasn't surprising - most of the people and most of the wealth was in the East. For its last couple of centuries it was split into a number of rival states, a couple of which survived the fall of Constantinople for about a decade or so. Needless to say, any comment you make about it depends heavily on the time period.

 

For much of its history it controlled Greece and the Balkans.

 

Justinian did reconquer Italy in the Sixth Century, bringing Rome back into the empire for a few decades. In addition, his generals also reconquered north Africa and major parts of Spain. Between them, these areas were probably the most economically important sections of the Western Empire.

 

Unfortunately(?), the Romans weren't able to hold onto it. While they had defeated one lot of barbarians in Italy (the Ostrogoths), another crowd (the Lombards) soon rolled up to begin taking it away from them. The Roman holdings in Italy were soon reduced to a rump (which persisted for a couple of centuries, IIRC).

 

Intriguingly, Justinian's wars in Italy played a major role in destroying civilisation there! The Goths, and Odoacer before them, had largely taken over Roman Italy intact, and were delighted to be able to enjoy its pleasures. While Rome itself had been sacked twice, most of the rest of the country was pretty much as it had always been.

 

Justinian's Gothic wars changed that. For a couple of decades, Italy was subject to a seesawing conflict as barbarianised Roman armies struggled with Romanised barbarian armies. While two of the Roman commanders - Belisarius and Narses - are commonly recognised as "Great Captains", the Gothic leaders were no fools either, and delivered several serious setbacks to lesser Roman commanders.

 

All good stuff for roleplaying. Many years ago, my DnD fighters tended to be influenced by Eastern Roman (Byzantine) models. Their wilderness equipment was more likely to be "horse, bow and sword" than "horse, lance and sword".

 

Alan

[FenrisUlf]

If you want to do fantasy in Rome, you could do worse than to look at Richard Tierney's _Simon of Gitta_. Great heroic fantasy combining a well-done Roman setting with the Cthulhu Mythos.

 

Right now the collected stories are being sold by Chaosium in _The Scroll of Thoth_.

[Beetle]

If you're interested in the mindset of Ancient Rome, an interesting resource would be Harry Turtledove's fictional "Misplaced Legion" series. It's about a group of Roman soldiers who get magically transported to another world ("Videssos"). An added bonus is that Videssos is a thinly painted over Byzantine Empire (with magic added) so it's an interesting look at that society as well.