Why is it so slow in here?

[Nadrakas]

Can I make a suggestion that a new thread be started based on the template you just posted?  It would help tighten up the discussion IMO.

Which Area of the Forum would you suggest??

 

~ M

[Tasha]

Perhaps I misunderstand GURPS: Dungeon Fantasy, as I've not seen it, but to me "Dungeon Hero" would specifically not be tied to the Turakian age or any other overarching pattern. I was thinking of it as being similar to old D&D, and probably to what the retro-revival D&D-ish things are doing. You don't have to talk much about above ground, and certainly not Kal-Turak and all that jazz, as underground is where the action is. The setting above ground is a place to stock-up for the next crawl, so the books just tell you what items are available and how much they cost, and otherwise leave it to be whatever the GM says it is. I imagine Dungeon Hero would have monsters, items, treasure, and perhaps make explicit how to do zero-to-hero in Hero rather than the normal experience progression. Probably even (sigh--it hurts me inexpressibly to say this) templates for optional classes and levels. Obviously a simple magic system with (more pain) enumerated, explicit spells, maybe even wizards with vancian magic and sorcerers with something else.

 

IOW, retro-gaming Hero-style. Perhaps that's now how GURPS: Dungeon Fantasy really works, I'm just going off of snippets I've heard and my memories of early D&D gaming.

Yes, but I mentioned Using Tarakian Age(am I the only one that keeps thinking of Taarna in the Heavy Metal movie when they see that title?) as a base for Dungeon Hero mostly due to costs of having someone write a new setting. It's like Champions Complete distilling 6e1 and 6e2 plus Champions Genre with some Champions Universe tossed in. Make use of what has already been written edit into something that is better than the original. Come up with an evocative title that will catch potential player's eyes (Champions' Dungeon?) DOJ/Hero has little money to invest in new books. So using what they already have and repurposing it into 6e books should be fairly attractive.

[Nadrakas]

Yes, but I mentioned Using Tarakian Age(am I the only one that keeps thinking of Taarna in the Heavy Metal movie when they see that title?) as a base for Dungeon Hero mostly due to costs of having someone write a new setting. It's like Champions Complete distilling 6e1 and 6e2 plus Champions Genre with some Champions Universe tossed in. Make use of what has already been written edit into something that is better than the original. Come up with an evocative title that will catch potential player's eyes (Champions' Dungeon?) DOJ/Hero has little money to invest in new books. So using what they already have and repurposing it into 6e books should be fairly attractive.

 

Taarna,

 

She fit's very well into the Tarakian Age IMO.

 

 

 

~ Nadrakas

[shuddemell]

It occurs to me, that maybe an idea to get a fantasy setting rolling is doing something similar to what WOTC did ( I know, gasp! The Horror!). But perhaps we could have a contest like they did to launch Eberron. Have anyone that wishes pitch their own setting and have all the folks here select one and then provide community support to make it happen. Obviously, this would require some coordination.. but on the positive side it would be of no cost to hero until it was ready to publish. I believe we have enough talented and imaginative folks here that we could really do something worthwhile with just a little sweat from our brows, and more to the point help Fantasy Hero flourish. It could be something that was added to Dungeon Hero (or whatever it ends up being called) or even given as a free PDF. I myself work as a professional graphic designer, typesetter and prepress technician and would be glad to donate some of my time for such a project.

 

It seems to me that I often see discussions of what can be done, and lots of time is spent reading and writing about it to no avail. Maybe that energy would be better used actually doing something, even if it failed, it would certainly feel more satisfying than lamenting the current state of Hero.

[Nadrakas]

It occurs to me, that maybe an idea to get a fantasy setting rolling is doing something similar to what WOTC did ( I know, gasp! The Horror!). But perhaps we could have a contest like they did to launch Eberron. Have anyone that wishes pitch their own setting and have all the folks here select one and then provide community support to make it happen. Obviously, this would require some coordination.. but on the positive side it would be of no cost to hero until it was ready to publish. I believe we have enough talented and imaginative folks here that we could really do something worthwhile with just a little sweat from our brows, and more to the point help Fantasy Hero flourish. It could be something that was added to Dungeon Hero (or whatever it ends up being called) or even given as a free PDF. I myself work as a professional graphic designer, typesetter and prepress technician and would be glad to donate some of my time for such a project.

 

It seems to me that I often see discussions of what can be done, and lots of time is spent reading and writing about it to no avail. Maybe that energy would be better used actually doing something, even if it failed, it would certainly feel more satisfying than lamenting the current state of Hero.

Perhaps Crowdsource the book??

 

I'm not personally big into Crowdsourcing...but I understand the reasoning -- and need -- behind it.

 

 

~ M

[kahuna's bro]

to the best of my knowledge warner bros. owns the pirate of dark water rights by virtue of its ownership of the hanna barberra catalog

[Narf the Mouse]

I like the idea of a contest for new HERO System settings. If done, it should be made public, so we get non-forum input.

[shuddemell]

I like the idea of a contest for new HERO System settings. If done, it should be made public, so we get non-forum input.

Right on Narf! I think that is exactly the ticket, perhaps run it as a Hero Board contest at first, and narrow down to say half a dozen, and then go public with it to do the final winnowing. I think this may be the only way we can effectively get an idea that enough people are on board with to make a run at actually popularizing Fantasy Hero. I am not sure the exact details of crowdsource as opposed to say a kickstarter, but actually, at first anyway, it would be all donation. That is people willing to do it would do it without expectation of pay, et al. Since it would be peer review, hopefully enough viewpoints and perspectives would guide us in a popular and ultimately profitable direction.

[Nadrakas]

Narf the Mouse, on 17 Dec 2013 - 6:18 PM, said:

I like the idea of a contest for new HERO System settings. If done, it should be made public, so we get non-forum input.

(Nod)...not a bad idea.

 

Right on Narf! I think that is exactly the ticket, perhaps run it as a Hero Board contest at first, and narrow down to say half a dozen, and then go public with it to do the final winnowing. I think this may be the only way we can effectively get an idea that enough people are on board with to make a run at actually popularizing Fantasy Hero. I am not sure the exact details of crowdsource as opposed to say a kickstarter, but actually, at first anyway, it would be all donation. That is people willing to do it would do it without expectation of pay, et al. Since it would be peer review, hopefully enough viewpoints and perspectives would guide us in a popular and ultimately profitable direction.

Crowdsource vs Kickstarter...I think I meant Kickstarter earlier -- sorry.

 

 

~ M

[Burrito Boy]

Edit: Nevermind.

 

Stupid phone.

[PaycheckHero]

to the best of my knowledge warner bros. owns the pirate of dark water rights by virtue of its ownership of the hanna barberra catalog

 

Probably, assuming H-B wrote the contract for the original RPG so that the rights reverted to them rather than selling the rights permanently.  I suspect they would have done so, but I don't know what the actual industry practice is.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Agreed.

 

I think you have a very valid point about concentrating on and expanding each Campaign Setting for each Genre.  Setting books that expand the different settings, while at the same time providing further adventure ideas, are extremely helpful to GMs.  That is one thing I found helpful in Exalted (and RIFTs...) -- the Splat books for Exalted provided plenty of adventure ideas, though at times information was hidden in weird places (ie: Stuff about Sidereals in the Lunar Splats...but that's WW for you).

 

But barring an expansion of the Core Hero Lines...what do we as the Fan Base do?  (Beyond supporting the company with purchases & being Hero Ambassadors, of course).

 

 

~ Nadrakas

What the fan base can do is produce material that supports the products the company produces.  there's nothing stopping us from producing modules ourselves and putting them online for all hero fans to use.  we might even be able to convince hero games to host such a service and link it here (maybe under the resources button).  no need for something like digital hero...just allow fans to produce content and upload it to the site and its free for all to peruse.  word of mouth will get around about the contributions that are worthy and with the nature of the hero system and the enthusiasm and imagination of its fan base, i'm certain something like that would prove to be a rousing success.

[shuddemell]

What the fan base can do is produce material that supports the products the company produces.  there's nothing stopping us from producing modules ourselves and putting them online for all hero fans to use.  we might even be able to convince hero games to host such a service and link it here (maybe under the resources button).  no need for something like digital hero...just allow fans to produce content and upload it to the site and its free for all to peruse.  word of mouth will get around about the contributions that are worthy and with the nature of the hero system and the enthusiasm and imagination of its fan base, i'm certain something like that would prove to be a rousing success.

Yes, obviously this would be ideal. However, from what I have seen, the settings offered for Fantasy Hero have not been updated for 6th Edition, and unfortunately they aren't particularly well recieved overall, in my experience. I do think either a website or a linked thread to a Grimoire, Equipment, Bestiary, et al, would work well tied to one of the existing settings. However, this may involve some copyright issues we would have to work out with the powers that be, and since none of the previous offerings have been particularly evocative to gamers at large, it may be wiser to retool and create a fan based option of what we collectively love about hero. My personal opinion is that though I have liked some of the company offerings for Fantasy Hero, they may be a too "Hero" approach at first, and maybe we need to (excuse the term) dumb it down for new folks, because likelihood is, the vast majority of tinkering will be done by the ref, and not by the players.

[Nadrakas]

NuSoardGraphite & shuddemell: Thanks to both of You (and anyone else who thought of this...).  I was thinking this...but wanted to see if anyone else had a similar thought.

 

 

What the fan base can do is produce material that supports the products the company produces.  there's nothing stopping us from producing modules ourselves and putting them online for all hero fans to use.  we might even be able to convince hero games to host such a service and link it here (maybe under the resources button).  no need for something like digital hero...just allow fans to produce content and upload it to the site and its free for all to peruse.  word of mouth will get around about the contributions that are worthy and with the nature of the hero system and the enthusiasm and imagination of its fan base, i'm certain something like that would prove to be a rousing success.

I'm fine with producing modules (and other Source Materials) for Hero.  We'd have to be careful to not violate any Hero Games Copyrights. Producing a Hero Fantasy Product would be OK, but producing one to plug into the Turakian Age wouldn't be (Not saying that's what you were suggesting...).  Things would have to be "Generic" in nature.

 

Hosting at Hero...I believe that Hero has a place for that under Downloads here on the Boards.  I suspect though that you meant another location at Hero?

 

 

Yes, obviously this would be ideal. However, from what I have seen, the settings offered for Fantasy Hero have not been updated for 6th Edition, and unfortunately they aren't particularly well recieved overall, in my experience. I do think either a website or a linked thread to a Grimoire, Equipment, Bestiary, et al, would work well tied to one of the existing settings. However, this may involve some copyright issues we would have to work out with the powers that be, and since none of the previous offerings have been particularly evocative to gamers at large, it may be wiser to retool and create a fan based option of what we collectively love about hero. My personal opinion is that though I have liked some of the company offerings for Fantasy Hero, they may be a too "Hero" approach at first, and maybe we need to (excuse the term) dumb it down for new folks, because likelihood is, the vast majority of tinkering will be done by the ref, and not by the players.

Isn't one of the Fantasy settings being updated for 6e?

 

Not sure it would need to be "dumbed down" exactly; maybe the "Powers" could be explained in the "flavor text" (while including the write-ups) so that new players could get a feel of how the "Powers" work. 

 

 

~ M

[Kraven Kor]

I'd compete in a contest for an "Official" HERO System setting.

 

I'd lose, but I'd compete.  

[Nadrakas]

I'd compete in a contest for an "Official" HERO System setting.

 

I'd lose, but I'd compete.  

Don't knock yourself!  I'm sure you'd do fine!

 

~ N

[Nadrakas]

I'd compete in a contest for an "Official" HERO System setting.

 

I'd lose, but I'd compete.  

Don't knock yourself!  I'm sure you'd do fine!

 

~ N

[Lord Liaden]

 

I'm fine with producing modules (and other Source Materials) for Hero.  We'd have to be careful to not violate any Hero Games Copyrights. Producing a Hero Fantasy Product would be OK, but producing one to plug into the Turakian Age wouldn't be (Not saying that's what you were suggesting...).  Things would have to be "Generic" in nature.

 

Not necessarily. Chasing a Golden Buck is a licensed Hero System adventure explicitly set in the Valdorian Age. As mentioned, Hero Games's licensing terms are very reasonable. I'm sure if contacted Jason Walters would say whether any particular proposal would be off-limits.

[shuddemell]

Yeah, actually the term dumbed down really isn't so much what I meant. I guess what I mean is to not necessarily show the nuts and bolts under the hood, but rather use evocative "flavor" text to capture the feel. At first anyway, players don't necessarily need or want to know how it works, but rather just what it does in plain english.

NuSoardGraphite & shuddemell: Thanks to both of You (and anyone else who thought of this...).  I was thinking this...but wanted to see if anyone else had a similar thought.

 

 

I'm fine with producing modules (and other Source Materials) for Hero.  We'd have to be careful to not violate any Hero Games Copyrights. Producing a Hero Fantasy Product would be OK, but producing one to plug into the Turakian Age wouldn't be (Not saying that's what you were suggesting...).  Things would have to be "Generic" in nature.

 

Hosting at Hero...I believe that Hero has a place for that under Downloads here on the Boards.  I suspect though that you meant another location at Hero?

 

 

Isn't one of the Fantasy settings being updated for 6e?

 

Not sure it would need to be "dumbed down" exactly; maybe the "Powers" could be explained in the "flavor text" (while including the write-ups) so that new players could get a feel of how the "Powers" work. 

 

 

~ M

[Nadrakas]

 

 

Not necessarily. Chasing a Golden Buck is a licensed Hero System adventure explicitly set in the Valdorian Age. As mentioned, Hero Games's licensing terms are very reasonable. I'm sure if contacted Jason Walters would say whether any particular proposal would be off-limits.

Do you mean the Hero System Contracts or is the Licensing that Chasing a Golden Buck was done under a Paid License? It sounds like the later, however, if the former, then this may be a viable possibility.

 

 

~ N

[Nadrakas]

 

Yeah, actually the term dumbed down really isn't so much what I meant. I guess what I mean is to not necessarily show the nuts and bolts under the hood, but rather use evocative "flavor" text to capture the feel. At first anyway, players don't necessarily need or want to know how it works, but rather just what it does in plain english.

 

NuSoardGraphite & shuddemell: Thanks to both of You (and anyone else who thought of this...).  I was thinking this...but wanted to see if anyone else had a similar thought.

 

 

I'm fine with producing modules (and other Source Materials) for Hero.  We'd have to be careful to not violate any Hero Games Copyrights. Producing a Hero Fantasy Product would be OK, but producing one to plug into the Turakian Age wouldn't be (Not saying that's what you were suggesting...).  Things would have to be "Generic" in nature.

 

Hosting at Hero...I believe that Hero has a place for that under Downloads here on the Boards.  I suspect though that you meant another location at Hero?

 

 

Isn't one of the Fantasy settings being updated for 6e?

 

Not sure it would need to be "dumbed down" exactly; maybe the "Powers" could be explained in the "flavor text" (while including the write-ups) so that new players could get a feel of how the "Powers" work. 

 

 

~ M

 

Agreed.  I've had quite a few players over the years who never really wanted to know how a System (any System) really worked.  They were ok with knowing some basics, but not the true ins & outs of a system -- most felt that it was the DMs/DMs/Storytellers Job to do all that "Rules Stuff" (Not including Rules Lawyers here).  They wanted "Plug & Play" -- though after a while most of them learned the Rules to one extent or another.

 

 

~ N

[Lord Liaden]

 

Do you mean the Hero System Contracts or is the Licensing that Chasing a Golden Buck was done under a Paid License? It sounds like the later, however, if the former, then this may be a viable possibility.

 

 

~ M

 

Couldn't tell you for certain. I'll send a PM to Jason asking for clarification.

[Nadrakas]

 

 

Couldn't tell you for certain. I'll send a PM to Jason asking for clarification.

Ok My Lord.

 

~ N

[BlueCloud2k2]

RE: Dumbing down HERO

 

I think that what we need for new players is a hybrid presentation. Build the spell in d20 compatible terminology, and then provide the Hero System build under the spell description. Do the same with all Talents/Feats and Perks and Skills. Here's an example using the d20 model:

 

Baldarif's Burning Ballista Bolt(30 AP; 7 RC)

School conjuration (creation) [fire]

Casting Time 1 full phase

Components Incantation, Gestures, Focus (Pinch of sulfur and a Crossbow Bolt)

Range long

Effect one arrow of fire

Duration 1 turn

Conjuration Skill Check at -3

 

An arrow of fire springs forth from your hand and speeds to its target. The arrow deals 1d6 points of Physical Killing Damage and 1d6 points of Energy Killing Damage per Phase for One Turn. The fire can be put out through submerging the target in water, cold-based damage, or a Dispell Effect.

 

HERO Rules Build: RKA 1d6 vs rPD (15 AP); IIF (X-bow bolt and sulfur; -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantation (-1/4), Requires a Skill Roll at -1 per 10 AP -1/2), 1 Charge (-2); RC 3

 

PLUS RKA 1d6 vs rED; 15 AP); IIF (X-bow bolt and sulfur; -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantation (-1/4), Requires a Skill Roll at -1 per 10 AP -1/2), 1 Continuing Charges Lasting 1 Turn (-1 1/4); RC 4

 

 

RE: Crowd Sourcing

 

I would be willing to collaborate with others to get something off the ground. Anyone up for a team effort? Nadrakas? Kraven Kor? PM me. Be aware I am not online as much Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays.

[Spence]

I don't think it should be dumbed down at all.  Here is one of my posts from another thread.

 

I think the problem is that we are thinking that Fantasy Hero would be HERO  wrapped in a fantasy theme.

 

I have always thought of Hero (or at least as long as I realized it) as the meta-rules and the actual game as an RPG based on the meta-rules.   All the other systems have their unpublished source document that guides and balances the game they put in the book.  When D&D puts out an add on book with new classes, those classes are balanced using the source document.  

 

HERO as a systems is different because they just published the actual source material so that you could build your own RPG that was balanced. 

 

Is this concept overly simplified?  Absolutely.  But not without merit.

 

Back to FH.  Pretty much all of the players I know do not want to have to build not only their spells or to design how magic works.    They want to play the game. 

 

When Michael H said “But "you can, if you like, do it differently" is a vital concept to Hero -- in many ways the essence of what the game is all about.” He is absolutely correct about HERO.   That is its core.  But we are not talking about HERO.  We Are talking about Fantasy Hero the sword swinging spell slinging monster kill’in treasure stealing adventure game.  Because face it.  That is what most players start out wanting.  First person shooter zap zap zap. 

 

I think that is exactly what FH should be.  It should include the rules on how to play.  Templates, skill packages, pre-built equipment and a complete usable out of the box spell system.    All this should be presented with only the final costs.  In Character Points or Gold as needed.  Beyond attributes, skills and equipment, the initial “abilities” should be prebuilt ‘canned’ just like Talents were.   All this in Part 1 of the book.  And a GM and players should be able to play complete adventures using only Part 1.  Part 2 would be what we normally think of as the powers section and the core concepts of HERO including how to build anything.  Theories of magic systems and such.    And all of the spells and abilities presented in Part 1 would be relisted with full HERO annotation so they can see how it was done. 

 

A book like that would only need to introduce magic and such  to an equivalent of maybe 5^th level, because once they are rolling they will, as all gamers do, want to tweak things. 

 

And surprise! Unlike most games, HERO is designed to tweak. 

 

And once that light goes on, we have all seen that most gamers don’t turn back.

 

I think that to get the various incarnations of Hero out there we need to get a out of the box playable version into the world first.  Then introduce them to the wonders of the ToolKit. 

 

As Nadrakas mentioned. 

"I've had quite a few players over the years who never really wanted to know how a System (any System) really worked.  They were ok with knowing some basics, but not the true ins & outs of a system -- most felt that it was the DMs/DMs/Storytellers Job to do all that "Rules Stuff" (Not including Rules Lawyers here).  They wanted "Plug & Play" -- though after a while most of them learned the Rules to one extent or another.